How Green Smoothies Can Devastate Your Health
Detoxification
Green smoothies are all the rage these days with many people consuming them every day or at least several times a week in an attempt to get healthy and “alkalize” the body.
Whenever I visit the cafe of my local healthfood store, there are usually several people in gym clothes lined up to order a green smoothie to sip after their workout.
Green smoothies are made by blending large amounts of raw leafy green vegetables with fruit to soften and sweeten the taste. Typical vegetables included in green smoothies are kale, spinach, swiss chard, collard greens, celery, broccoli, and parsley.
Is the green smoothie fad a truly healthy habit over the long term or can consumption of these seemingly healthy drinks in fact contribute to serious health problems?
Raw Leafy Greens Contain High Oxalate Levels
Frequent consumption of large quantities of raw, leafy green vegetables as occurs when a person drinks green smoothies can be deceiving at first as a person will probably initially feel great after adopting this habit particularly if he or she is coming off a highly processed, nutrient poor diet.
The vegetables used in green smoothies are almost without exception high oxalate foods. Over time, a high oxalate diet can contribute to some very serious health problems particularly if you are one of the 20% of people (1 in 5) that have a genetic tendency to produce oxalates or if you suffer from candida or other fungal challenge. In those cases, a high oxalate diet can deal a devastating blow to health.
Oxalate Toxicity Not a New Problem
Humans have suffered the effects of oxalate toxicity since ancient times. A 2000 year old mummy from Chile was discovered through x-ray analysis to have an oxalate kidney stone about the size of a golf ball!
Oxalates can be deposited almost anywhere in the body and wherever they land, pain or worse is the result.
75-90% of kidney stones are oxalate related with 10-15% of Americans afflicted at some point during their lives. As the star shaped crystalline stones pass from the kidney, they cause pressure and pain in the bladder and urethra and can actually tear up the walls of the urinary tract.
Oxalate Stones Can Form in Any Tissue
Oxalate stones can show up in any body tissue including the brain and even the heart.
Oxalate crystals resembling shards of glass which become lodged in the heart cause tiny tears and damage to this vital muscle with every single contraction pumping life giving blood to the rest of the body.
Oxalate crystals which end up in the thyroid can cause thyroid disease by damaging thyroid tissue.
A frequent location for oxalates to end up is skeletal muscle which will cause pain with even normal movement and make exercise nearly impossible. Dr. William Shaw, Director of The Great Plains Laboratory for Health, Nutrition and Metabolism who has studied oxalates extensively, is convinced that oxalate toxicity is a factor in fibromyalgia the pain of which can absolutely devastate a person’s life.
Vulvodynia – Painful Sex
Cases of women experiencing painful sex are on the rise with oxalates a possible culprit.
Vulvodynia, a condition causing pain in and around the vagina, is linked to oxalates deposited in this delicate reproductive tissue. Oxalate crystals are very acidic and they cause irritation, burning, and stinging sensations for affected women with an accompanying feeling of rawness whenever they engage in sexual relations.
Oxalates Are Fungal in Origin
A surprising finding is that oxalates are produced in large amounts by fungus. Large stones have been found in the sinuses and lungs of people suffering from systemic fungal infections such as candida or Aspergillus.
Therefore, anyone who suffers from any sort of candida or other fungal challenge like fungus nails or dandruff would be wise to be very concerned about oxalate intake via the diet.
Consumption of green smoothies would not in any way contribute to improvement of health in these situations. Given that the majority of people today suffer from gut imbalance/fungal issues caused by antibiotic and prescription drug use along with consumption of processed foods, a high oxalate diet which includes green smoothies is an unwise practice for virtually everyone.
Does Cooking Destroy Oxalates?
Would it be safe to prepare green smoothies with leafy greens that have been lightly steamed first?
Not really, because oxalates are extremely stable and while cooking high oxalate foods like leafy greens (and discarding the cooking water) does reduce the oxalate level, it remains quite high.
Since green smoothies are consumed so frequently by those who swear by them, a light steaming of the veggies first would not make a significant difference over the long term.
Healthier Alternatives to Green Smoothies
The best course of action for health, then, is to opt out of the green smoothie fad.
If you enjoy green leafy vegetables, enjoy them in moderation in salads or cook them and carefully drain and discard all the cooking water – never use it in soups and sauces! Be sure to serve cooked leafy greens with a healthy, traditional fat like butter (not margarine or any factory fats synthesized with rancid and/or GMO vegetable oils) for maximum absorption of minerals.
Another option is to drink raw cultured vegetable juice or eat raw cultured vegetables. Not only will you get enhanced nutrition from the culturing process which adds enzymes and nutrients, but you will also get a beneficial and therapeutic dose of probiotics to help balance gut function and improve digestion.
Another option is to do shots of fresh, green wheatgrass juice. Wheatgrass juice is very low in oxalic acid. Click here for my favorite green juice recipe using wheatgrass juice.
If you already are suffering from some of the ailments described in this article and suspect a high oxalate diet which includes green smoothies or a daily spinach salad may be the cause, stop this practice immediately and consult with a holistic physician who can guide you on the road to recovery and how to best rid your body of the oxalate crystals that are potentially irritating one or more of your body tissues.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Author, Get Your Fats Straight
Sources:
The Role of Oxalates in Autism and Chronic Disorders, William Shaw PhD
Top 4 Cleansing Myths to Watch Out For
Think Raw Veggies are Best? Think Again
Yet Another Reason to Cook That Broccoli
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Niqui
Ok…..sooooo I’m vegan…so I shouldn’t eat raw veggies? Like I don’t understand…so fruits and veggies are bad to eat raw? I don’t get it…I mean as a vegan what should one do? because other vegans saw raw diet it is the best but now you’re saying that it’s not…how do I know that this a ploy or set up again vegans and vegetarians? like I need some help with this one because if I heard if you cook them you cook out what you nee…you just made this whole thing more confusing for me
Brian
I do agree that there is a little fear mongering going on here, intentional or not.
But I think the key (if not clearly stated) point of the article is “ALL THINGS IN MODERATION”.
There is no one thing that you can put in your body in excess without harming yourself. Even drinking too much water can kill you, so if you’re over doing it with super green smoothies of course it’s gonna have negative affects. But the author is really at fault for not providing a middle ground, she kind of went all or nothing on this.
Enjoy green smoothies in moderation is what I would take away from this.
billi
hi Sarah,
ive been reading on oxalate rich food last year, as i tried to create diet to fight autoimmune disease/hashimoto. also follow anti candida diet, avoid goitrogen food… it became painful to make a meal plan, no sugar, no/low starches, no grains, no/low sugar fruits. i load up on eggs, grassfed beef, chicken soup, and salads, plus avocado a day.
so to confirm, to do it properly, i should cook/steam brocolli, kale, spinach, etc and throw out the water. what veggies can i then make soup with to keep the water, enjoy the soup?
big thanks.
Sarah
Any veggies that don’t have antinutrients can be used for making soup … carrots, broccoli, zucchini, onion, garlic, celery to name a few.
If you wish to make kale soup or cream of broccoli, for example, just cook the greens first, discard the water and then blend into the broth with the spices and other ingredients.
OhPls
Oh please, Sarah. We all know it’s just a clickbait title to gain attention and the message pointless. Is a burger better then? Yes? Or grains? What would you suggest? Oh wait. I don’t want to know because I feel great with my green smoothies and I look the best I’ve ever looked.
Sarah
Glad the green smoothies are working for you! Be sure not to overdo, which unfortunately most people do in my experience. And yes, you can feel and look great for quite awhile doing them until all of a sudden you have serious problems. Here are some tips for consuming them sensibly and safely since you obviously are enjoying them: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/green-smoothie-safety-tips/
Tuballz Packer
Well all food is bad for you these days. Bread and grains are bad. Meat and dairy is bad. Fruit is full of sugar. now vegetables is bad for you. I am becoming a nofoodatarian.
Jonathan
The main sources of oxalate in diets were regular tea and coffee (80-85%). Only 15-20% of oxalate was derived from other plant foods.
I think we should focus on our caffeine consumption before worrying about green smoothies.
Sarah
You are not considering the fact that green smoothies involve an enormous pile of greens blended into a single drink … far more greens than a person would consume in a salad. It is the sheer volume of oxalate containing greens in a single green smoothie combined with the addictive behavior of some of its fans who consume them day after day after day that is the problem.
Kelly
Lol, this is exactly how I feel. Everything is bad. I’m tired of all those food rules. Just try to eat mostly whole foods. Period. Don’t sweat the rest.
Sarah
Did this article say green veggies are bad? No, it did not. It said that green smoothies are a fad … just trying to clue you in before you get damaged by it. Just eat veggies like traditional cultures did!
RojoRoje
Hello Sarah,
The warning seems to concern those individuals whom frequently (assuming to mean multiple times a day, every day) consume large amounts (perhaps 32 oz) of green smoothies. May I read between the lines and gather that one who consumes once a day in the morning a smoothie consisting of spinach, strawberries and banana, and water, which makes a serving of approx 25-30 oz, and goes on eating sensibly the rest of the day would be fine? Sensibly like, salad and lean meat, things of this nature.
Thank you,
Oscar
Tonym1905
Fine to say ancient traditional cultures were healthy because they ate vegetables in the good old conventional way Sarah, but you don’t take into account the fact that blenders hadn’t been invented yet … and you can’t be sure that their veggie eating habits were better ‘cos they’re all dead anyway … hehe
Joe
Sorry, I’m not buying it. And why are we calling green smoothies a fad. I think we’re past that point by now. Now that they’ve been around for over 5 years…hardly a fad. Besides, if it were a fad, where do we go from here? Is there something better than plant-based in the history of the world? Is there something else out there that will be all the rage that kicks green eating to the curb? Unfortunately, eating plant-based is relatively knew, but with how it’s caught fire, it’ll never go away again…not with such high rates of cancer and not with the level that organic has grown to in recent years.
Kim
Hi Sarah,
Can you address greens powders? Are they as dangerous as a green smoothie? I take a very high quality powder by Douglas Labratories but now that I’ve read your article, I’m questioning whether it’s a good idea. Can you weigh in?
Sarah
This is a great question. I have not delved into this, so can’t give a firm answer as of yet. Let me do some digging!
Elisabeth
Use Romaine Salad instead, it is very low in Oxalate. I use it mostly.
brit
I also use romaine in my smoothie along with coconut water/hemp seed/chia seeds/avocado/frozen banana. I often have this for dinner. I have low thyroid so know to avoid oxalates altho I also juice daily and sometimes put a leaf of kale along with carrot/parsley/apple/celery/cucumber/etc.
Betsy
I really would like to see some REAL citations in these kinds of article. Like from PubMed. There is waaaayyyy too much information out there and I am not buying all this stuff anymore without some real research backing up this stuff. I have been eating green smoothies every morning for that past 5 years with zero ill effects. Show me a few well-designed studies and I’ll switch.
Sarah
Formal studies take many years to fund, conduct and publish … by then it is far too late for those who bought into a health fad and lost their health in the process. It is wise to listen to experts in the field such as Dr. Shaw cited in the article who can provide guidance before it is too late. Common sense doesn’t need pubmed.
Regina
Please, can you contact me directly? I am dying from that green smoothie.. well I feel like I am.. now I have chest pains. I fall down the stairs… its been one thing after another since I drank 1 green smoothie. I need to know who you said to contact.. I cant find the reply now.. Thank you
Sébastien BEIRNAERT
Apparently you don’t know about non oxalic green, like lettuce and baby spinach. Just use them for your green smoothies and you will not have the kind of problems that you describe in your article.
Beets
Can oxalates cause gall stones? I have lots of indications that I have developed secondary hyperoxluria through being given vast amounts of antibiotics for Lyme and unwittingly eating a high oxalate diet (smoothies). A few years ago I had a couple of gallstones. Now it’s packed full. There are slight calcifications in the kidneys but no stones. For that reason I can’t get recognition or treatment. No doctor I’ve met so far has heard of illness and the nephrologist can only help if the kidneys are involved. Any research papers or instances where there is gallstone involvement? My body burns and crawls in horrific pain.
Dale Migliaccio, D.C.
Whoa!! Please don’t throw the baby out with the bath water!
I appreciate your article for the very small percentage of people who may have an issue with kidney stones or other issues caused by high oxalate consumption.
However, I’m afraid for many reading this article it may lead them to unnecessarily reduce their consumption of these greens. Being in private practice for over 30 years, using a high vegetable, moderate protein, grain free, blood sugar stabilizing diet on approximately 95% of my patients, I believe I have seen one patient following this kind of regime that “might” have passed a kidney stone. Mind you, I have patients who have been with me for the entire 29 years I have been practicing in Santa Barbara. I have seen a fair number who in their health history had previously had kidney stones, but not while following this kind of regimen.
I know how painful these stones can be to pass, as I kept a young pregnant patient in my clinic all day many years ago, putting her through a specific protocol to help her pass her stones. She had been sent home from the hospital as they couldn’t blast her stone when pregnant and she didn’t have insurance. She was vomiting, in pain, severely nauseous and dangerously dehydrated. Luckily we were successful and she had a full quick recovery.
I am not a proponent of “smoothies” on a regular basis, so my patient base is not drinking that level of the greens you mention, but it is common for them to have many of these greens in their diet and a much higher level of greens than the average American. Especially given the plethora of beautiful, organic greens that we have locally.
The health benefits of these greens have been well documented, in spite of the gentleman who is promoting his anti-greens book, the conclusions of which, myself and many docs would find faulty.
I would say the benefits of eating large amounts of these greens, very much outweigh the risks, with the exception of someone who has a history of kidney stones. Even then there are many other variables that can contribute to the cause of stones.
Regarding patients who have yeast problems and these greens, having treated patients with yeast problems my entire career, I have never limited their greens and they always get their yeast issue resolved and believe me I have seen yeast problems so severe they had landed patients in the hospital, near death before they saw me.
Again, I conclude say that for the vast percentage of people, eating a diet high in greens has way more benefits than risks.
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Options for consuming greens safely is included in the article.
marugena
Unless you’re drinking ridiculously large amounts of green smoothies, consuming green vegetables has more benefits than risks. I think green smoothies are a great add on to anyone’s diet. And if your argument is on the oxalates found in green plant foods, why not look at the oxalates found in coffee and black tea, and the large quantities of coffee some people consume everyday. If anything I’d be more worried about how much coffee and black tea people are drinking, not green smoothies.
Russell Eaton
Thank you Sarah for an excellent article about the perils of green leafy smoothies. The main thing is to avoid putting any kind of cruciferous vegetables into your smoothies. Broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables should be completely avoided from the diet. For the scientific evidence please see my new book which is currently free.
Russell Eaton, author, ‘Don’t Eat Your Broccoli: The Shocking Truth’, broccoli-info.info
marugena
Unless someone’s got hypothyroidism or thyroid disorder, I would not be recommending to everyone to cut out broccoli and cruciferous vegetables from their diet. When it comes to health and nutrition, it’s not a one size fits all. Cruciferous vegetables have many benefits. They aid in liver detoxification and are anti-carcinogenic. You would need to be eating kilos of these veggies for them to affect a healthy thyroid. It really worries me when people start to give out advice like what you just did. What qualifications do you have to be given out advice like that?
VinnyJay
Cruciferous vegetables like Broccoli Cabbage and Brussell Sprouts are three of the healthiest foods when eaten in moderation. Even for hypo, eating small amounts won’t affect you.
Blender Base
Everything is OK in moderation. Whether it’s drinking a green smoothie or drinking alcohol you need to control yourself!
Regina
I am in need of help from drinking a green smoothie at the end of June. Where can I get help?? I became deathly ill after drinking it. I have been to many doctors and now they say I have fibro. I need help!
Sarah
I would recommend that you see a GAPS Practitioner such as those who work at biodynamicwellness.com in San Diego (they do Skype consults).
Regina
Sarah, Thank you. I found your reply again. I will check into it. I went to the Rheumatologist today and they did say I have ffbro. I know 100% it is from the green smoothie. I never had any problems until I drank that. One day I am perfectly fine, the next I can barley walk. I do have all the fibro symptoms but I also have blood vessels busting in my hand and I am swollen like a balloon. Again, for anyone reading this.. I would not play with my life with a green smoothie, it’s not worth it. Just eat your veggies. I do not mind anyone wanting to contact me. I do not get any notice though when I get a reply. Sarah, I just came back to the web site looking to see if I received any reply. I did not get an email. Thank you Sarah for your help.
kassie
could i use splenda in with the green smoothies?
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Splenda is a dangerous artificial sweetener … it shrivels the thymus gland over time.
SM
Can you provide a source for this claim? I’d like to read more about it. Thanks.
JP
SM, check out this link…however it’s from 2004 and the thymus shrinking was in lab rats.
Lori
I think better use agave syrup or pure honey will help instead using low sugar (Splemda). By the way, I’m still using low sugar Sweetlow, not sure if it safe ?
Angela
Stevia is a safe 0 cal sweetener that you can use. I use the liquid but you can also purchase powder.
Aido
I would stop using Agave Syrup all together. It has been tested and it has been proven to have a higher glycemic index than fructose corn syrup..VERY BAD NEWS for agave.
kassie
how many pounds can i lose per week doing the green smoothie only diet and exercise? and how can i get more energy while i am on it?
Otem
You probably shouldn’t limit your daily calorie consumption to just green smoothies. Your body needs other nutrients as well; you shouldn’t neglect them and giving up foods you love (yes even the unhealthy ones) is going to drive you crazy. Plus you’ll miss chewing; I promise, I’ve been there.
The safest amount of weight to lose per week at max is usually around 2 lbs and the calorie range is based off of a formula that includes your weight and how many calories you’re burning a day.
I started losing weight this past January at 225 LBS eating 1200-1500 calories a day with no exercise. If I exercised (which I do frequently now: jogging, cycling and hiking) I ate more calories and this worked for me (even considering I have PCOS, which makes it a little harder to lose weight). I’m down to 162 now, and I still follow this calorie restriction.
I do drink green smoothies though as they do have good stuff in them (if you’re making them right) and I drink them in the mornings when I am in a rush and don’t have time make eggs.
The best way to lose weight is to avoid fad diets and eat a myriad of good foods so as to not get bored of anything. You just need to remember calories in < calories out and to boost your metabolism by cutting back on the sugar and doing good exercise and you'll do fine.
Good luck!
(Sorry I'm not the owner of this blog, but you commented back in march and didn't get a reply yet so I thought I'd at least try to give you some advice or help. Don't mean to preach at you and I wish you the best!)
Vince de Simone
There are some handy tips on this webpage…it’s all about gut flora at the end of the day, as with most health issues…our over sanitised lives are one small piece of the problem…as is the over-prescription of antibiotics
Also some intermittent fast can do so much to restore balance!
Peace… Vince
http://bodyecology.com/articles/boiling-your-vegetables-low-oxalate-solution-reduce-pain.php#.VQEIs00cTL8
selda
You’re very right in what you say regarding gut flora….more than 70% of our immune strength resides in the gut….balancing gut fora, canddida, fungus etc here means better health and wellness. I swear by drinking the only bio live (natural pre biotic) aloe vera drink daily …
Lynnz
I’ve just been to the doctor today with searing pelvic, lower back and abdominal pain along with lethargy, low body temp and chills. She had me do a urine sample and is pretty sure I have kidney stones. I have to drink 2 qts. water per day and re-check in 2 wks. I have been drinking smoothies made with orange juice (a no-no for kidney stones) mixed with Emerald Balance, a green powder. I eat a lot of cruciferous veggies. This pain is like nothing I have ever had and I am 64 years old. Does anyone know any natural remedies? I have heard a cup of warm water, apple cider vinegar and honey taken several times a day will help dissolve them. Feeling like cr– and have no energy, just want to sleep. This is very much UNlike me. On the last weekend I helped pack and move my 86yr. old mom to a new place, lifted heavy furniture with the guys and worked for two 10 hr. days straight. Back is killing me but the kidney stuff is worse.
Diane
What worked for me when I was diagnosed with a kidney stone many years ago is about 4 oz of warm water with lemon juice in the morning. I have it every day and haven’t had a kidney stone ever again. Fresh lemons are pricey so I use 2 packets of True Lemon instead. It is crystallized and next best thing to fresh. Good luck.
Linda
Norman Walker talks about oxalates in his book, “Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices” I notice by the above article that there is not a difference made in the organic raw vs. cooked greens such as spinach, which is high in oxalates. However, in Norman Walker’s book, p. 56, he does a complete chapter on oxalic acid…..He says, “Organic oxalic acid is one of the most important elements needed to maintain the tone of, and to stimulate peristalsis….We have in previous chapters covered this important question of organic versus inorganic atoms in our food. It is very vital to stress this matter in regard to oxalic acid. When the food is raw, whether whole or in the form of juice, every atom in such food is vital organic and is replete with enzymes. Therefore, the oxalic acid in our raw vegetables and their juices is organic, and as such as not only beneficial but essential for the physiological functions of the body. The oxalic acid in cooked and processed foods, however, is definitely dead or inorganic, and as such, is both pernicious and destructive.
Dee
Kidney stones are awful, hope you feel better soon.
Lemon juice in water is helpful, depending on the type of stone, it can help to dissolve, or at the least help to keep them from forming. I drink mine through a straw to help keep the acid off my teeth. I used apple cider vinegar for a while also. I use magnesium citrate to help bind the oxalate in meals, 20 minutes before if it is a capsule or tablet, with the meal if it’s powder. Lots of people use calcium citrate for the same purpose, I’m not comfortable using it yet, since I form calcium stones.
If you start lowering oxalate in your diet, go slowly, too fast can cause detox-like symptoms, and possibly form more stones as oxalate gets released from storage in the body.
I have been able to pass several stones without medication (or non stop vomiting!) since I started the diet.
There is lots and lots of information available at the Trying Low Oxalates yahoo group. The list owner is researcher Susan Costen Owens, who has been focused on oxalate issues for about 20 years.
The lowoxalate.info website has lots of info as well.
Blyth
Do you drink tea or coffee?
Sonia Lunas
Yep and they can apparently even kill you over time.
http://www.townsendletter.com/Jan2015/green0115.html#.VNgQ3J7LXQE.facebook
Steve
All but one of your sources links to this same web site, and the one that doesn’t isn’t very strong. It’s going to take more than that to convince me that spinach is bad for me.
Val
I am 70 and in great health, neighbours giving me 10-15 years less, friends keeping quiet about it. Not thanks to my genes and not thanks to my eating habits either. An ex chain smoker, alcohol user and heavy coffee drinker, I credit my good health to my mind-style much more than to my having quit (cold turkey) ALL that crap. After having read more than thousand non-fiction books on human nature, MY OWN formula for great health is a good stress-management, insisting on a happy attitude, not complicating life and relationships, and yes – eating everything in moderation.
Eating is more like my “back-up” concern. Worrying about calories and a whole army of those popular bio-chemical boogie-men parading in our health market – boils down to worrying; and in my VERY modest opinion you can worry yourself into sickness much easier than smoke yourself into sickness. Of course, it’s ME, and I am not being normative here, just expressing myself. Nutrition? Biochemistry? I have been there. There was a time when a health food store manager mentioned how I probably had more of those little bottles at my home than there was in his store. – These days you would see on my coffee table the book by Pam Grout titled “Energy Squared” – and staying there for weeks, or months, just as a reminder and an inspiration every time I see it . Or you would see it in my hands again – while I may be munching on a chocolate, have a banana smoothie, or a sandwich. Guess what – I am a great believer in placebo-effect. It works in conventional medicine, works in nutrition, works in energy medicine. Choose your cure – but for Pete’s sake don’t scare yourself. Some of my dearest books in those hundreds were books about human suggestibility and about the effects of our belief-fueled-emotions on our health and our quality of life.
When I hear all those sermons about foods and their effect on health, I can’t help thinking about an old and senile sexologist very knowledgeable about sex. What’s missing in his equation is that certain “spark” which would make all his knowledge obsolete – that same spark for life and vitality that a happy heart would serve on your dinner plate. But, to each his own. Feel free to disagree – I just hope you feel as good as I do when you reach your 70.
anna
nicely put!!
Angela Pocius
I would love it if you could give me the titles and Authors for some of the books you have mentioned ab I am interested in the human suggestibility, belief -fueled- emotions, Something about your comment has awakened a hunger in me. I love your outlook. I suffer more than 1 autoimmune disease. Graves Disease being the latest, Knowing that autoimmune is greatly related to stress levels I believe I need an outlook adjustment,
Vince de Simone
Hi Angela
Some include: The Intention Experiment by Lynne McTaggert; Healing Beyond the Body by Dr Larry Dossey; Defy Gravity by Caroline Myss; The Biology of belief by Bruce Lipton; most things by Deepak Chopra; the movie what the bleep do we know etc and the books by the people in that movie…Dr Emoto’s work…too many to mention…I hope that’s useful…also you may like to look into an amazing yoga practice called yoga nidra…there are many great tracks on YouTube…make sure you get versions that have the affirmations in them which can be used to change belief systems…peace…Vince
Ms T
Angela, there are some great free ebooks if you do an online search, written by Joseph Murphy (1898-1981).
He discusses disease and ‘miracle cures’ from all over the world, which all boils down to one thing and one thing only – the power of subconscious mind.
Two of his books that I have are:
Power of the Subconscious Mind – and – The Miracles of Your Mind
There are countless books on the subject, but I find Joseph Murphy’s, although spoken in the language of the time (very old fashioned, in other words) to make the most sense, without using ridiculous and confusing jargon.
Gladys
Val, I hear you loud and clear. I read one book and it is telling me I can eat as many veggies as I want, another tells me too may green smoothies are no good. I am 73, and only in fair health. I was obsessing about my high blood pressure so much I’m sure it was contributing to keeping it up there so I stopped taking my pressure daily and now take it only weekly. I fear all of the Rx I am on (which indicates it may cause a rise in blood pressure) is causing some of the spiking as well. Too bad we live in a pill pushing nation where doctors are taught more about drugs than nutrition, to the point that refusing to take an Rx may even get you dropped by a physician. I feel if one is piling one drug after another on top of the other, all with the same side effects, there has to be a cumulative effect. Seeking out a holisitic physician, imagine my disappointment when the first thing he offered was another Rx. I felt totally betrayed. I have noticed that my frequent internal cleansing has worked to lower my pressure far more effective than the multiple hypertensive Rx that I have been frightened into taking..
Pone
The web page at:
http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/oxalates.asp
indicates that calcium citrate may neutralize oxalates if taken with the food that contains the oxalates. Do you have any guidelines on how much calcium citrate to mix based on oxalates in food?
Does anyone have a specific recipe on how to ferment beets, with the idea being to juice the digested beet after five days.
Pingback: Green Smoothies | Rocky Top Rebecca
Mark B.
2 years ago I spent my summer health kick consuming tons of raw spinach, bok choi, chard ( it came in a large bag pre-washed at the grocery store), berries, nuts and other high oxalate foods. I didn’t want it to go to waste so I would end up eating the greens in salads or just handfuls. I figured, hey, the more the better, right? And I love the taste of raw spinach. Anyway, by the fall I started to experience dysphagia (difficulty swallowing), muscle twitching, tremors, cramping, fatigue, weakness, aches, tingling, restless leg syndrome, cold extremities, pre-syncope, breathlessness and a whole host of other weird symptoms. I went through a period of terrible health anxiety thinking I had MND. I had all the regular tests… vitamin levels, thyroid, heavy metals, MRI’s, neurological… and they concluded everything to be normal. I finally came up with a diagnosis of BFS (Benign Fasciculation Syndrome) on my own. I now believe I messed myself up with eating all the high oxylate foods. Hypocalcemia? Thyroid disorder? I still twitch but I no longer suffer from anything else including the anxiety. Thankfully, I did not develop kidney stones. Count me in as a believer of what this article preaches.
Zach
Were the greens you ate pesticide free? I’m wondering if you consumed too many with pesticides and maybe got poisononed?
crimora
Anyone i have ever known that had kidney stones drank a lot of soda and or milk, but did not eat any greens or vegetables. Also back when our ancestors were living that’s all they had was raw fruits & vegetables that’s how the earth was in the beginning so how could something that is natural be bad for us that’s why the dinosaurs rotated the way they ate green leaves because they knew not to eat the same ones all the time. PEACE
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Emma
. The amount of oxalate in certain foods.
Although many foods contain oxalate, only nine foods are known to increase oxalate in the urine and kidney stone formation. They are: beets, spinach, rhubarb, strawberries, nuts, chocolate, tea, wheat bran, and all dry beans (fresh, canned, or cooked), excluding lima and green beans. It is best to avoid these foods.
2. The amount of calcium in your diet.
Low amounts of calcium in your diet will increase your chances of forming calcium oxalate kidney stones. You need calcium in your diet to bind oxalate in the intestines. This helps reduce the amount of oxalate being absorbed by your body, so stones are less likely to form. Consuming a moderate amount of calcium every day (2 to 3 servings) from dairy foods or other calcium-rich foods is recommended. If you take a calcium supplement, calcium citrate is the preferred form.
3. The vitamin C content of your diet.
Oxalate is an end product of Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) metabolism. Large doses of Vitamin C may increase the amount of oxalate in your urine, increasing the risk of kidney stone formation. If you are taking a supplement, do not take more than 500 mg of Vitamin C daily.
4. The amount of fluids in your diet.
It is very important to drink plenty of liquids. Your goal should be 10-12 glasses a day. At least 5-6 glasses should be water. You may also want to consider drinking lemonade. Research suggests that lemonade may be helpful in reducing the risk of calcium oxalate stone formation.
5. The amount of protein in your diet.
Eating large amounts of protein may increase the risk of kidney stone formation. Your daily protein needs can usually be met with 2-3 servings a day, or 4 to 6 ounces.
6. The amount of sodium in your diet.
Reduce the amount of sodium in your diet to 2-3 grams per day. Limit eating processed foods such as hot dogs, deli meats, sausage, canned products, dry soup mixes, sauerkraut, pickles, and various convenience mixes.
Use the Food Guide Pyramid to plan a well-balanced diet. Carbohydrates, proteins, and fats are necessary for the proper functioning, maintenance, and repair of your body. In addition to these major nutrients, the body requires water, minerals, and vitamins for good health.
FindingAWay
Besides oxalates, kale is a goitrogenic food. This also includes other cruciferous veggies. Too much kale can mess with your thyroid. That doesn’t mean that if you are a normal healthy person you stay far away from cruciferous veggies (hey I don’t like brussel sprouts or cabbage much either but I eat them). Instead, just take them in a normal amount not large amounts of them daily. And eat selenium and iodine foods like brazil nuts, seafood, iodized salt, or seaweed.
Calcium supplements. Mmm. Well, my doctor is pulling everyone off of calcium supplements because they’ve been linked to heart problems. Instead, the newest research points out that Vitamin D levels allow calcium to be taken into the bones, so you need Vitamin D healthy levels in your body. You should be able to get calcium from your diet like green leafy veggies or seafood or beans. With Vitamin D, it’s able to be fixed into the cells. The doc suggested instead of calcium that I should take a daily Vitamin D instead. That and the veggies in healthy amounts and varied (VARIED!!) should allow all the calcium needed. Exercise too helps keep you healthy.
Suzi
? Doesn’t the higher level of oxylates in urine suggest that your body is getting rid of it better?
Also not big on dairy, so how much calcium citrate per day? My mom has continual kidney stones so I really worry about getting them too. She drank tea most of her life and a good share of chocolate. Luckily I only consume strawberries and nuts off the list. Sadly my daughter works for a tea store and drinks pretty much only tea.
Mike Ellwood
I googled that phrase you used about Vitamin C and found the apparent source of it.
Well here’s another quote that contradicts it:
“Vitamin C does not cause kidney problems; it prevents them. For example, vitamin C stops the formation or oxalate stones, and actually dissolves phosphate and struvite kidney stones (see below). If kidney failure is suspected, see your doctor early in the game, and insist that vitamin C therapy is employed.”
Linus Pauling took up to 20 grams per day of Vitamin C, and as far as I know, did not get kidney stones.
Dan
I read up heaps on green smoothies and was convinced that they would be the solution to getting more veg into my diet. Alas I was wrong. Within days of making them a regular feature of my diet I had a gout attack flare up. Thinking it was only a one off I laid off the green smoothies until it had well and truly subsided but as soon as I was a few days back into the smoothie routine bang! the gout would return. I can only assume it must have been due to the extra fructose in the fruit. Not being a big fruit eater prior to having the smoothies I was adding about 2 serves of fruit to my shake (which I was having once a day) This was much less than many of the recipes I had found. I changed the types of fruit and veg I was having in my shake pretty much every day as well aside from usually adding one banana to the mix. The other fruit I was rotating was either cherries, melon, pineapple or berries and the greens were generally spinach, different chinese greens or leafy salad greens.
kelly
spinach has a direct affect on gout so if you suffer from gout, stay away from spinach
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ToYourHealth
Is wheatgrass safe for people with gluten allergies?
Thank you – this article explains why my son’s asthma is aggravated and I myself start coughing after drinking too much of green drinks. Too much of a good thing! Yes – we both have yeast issues.
J.
Gluten is a protein found in the grain itself. Sprouts and grasses are free of gluten.
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Pat
Crap. I read this whole article before I realized it was based on WAP.
I WANT THE PAST FIVE MINUTES
OF MY LIFE BACK!
I guess that’s what I get for reading nutrition advice on the internet.
RD
Pat, what are you talking about?? WAP??
Wireless Application Protocol?
Workers Assistance Program?
Worldwide Antarctic Program??
M
I believe she means the Weston A. Price Foundation
Damien
Yeah Pat, using an non-commonally understood acronym to discredit this person’s article is a douche move.
I want the 15 seconds I spent reading your comment back.
Mike Ellwood
And those who did know what WAP stands for would have realised the ridiculousness of the comment in any case.
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Clear Destiny
I think your entire story here is a crock. I’m a spiritual adviser and herbalist and spiritual healer.
GREEN SMOOTHIES are not bad for anyone’s health, in fact this will help anyone Restore Health.
ClearDestiny
Ada
You’re a Spiritual Adviser, Herbalist and Spiritual Healer and you think THIS story is a crock? Ok.
Ololo
Lilissimo. Not saying that the story above is crook or not, but being a “spiritual” whatsoever is the guaranteed crook. You don’t even understand what you are talking about.
Swirlz
Too much of anything can be bad for you, yet I refuse to believe green smoothies is bad for your health. The show Freaky Eaters show people consuming nothing but pizza, cola, french fries and all kinds of junk. This is saying if I OD on veggies I will be sick? Maybe but not as sick as the girl who drinks 35 cola’s a day. I think I will continue to drink a green smoothie for breakfast every morning or late lunch or lazy dinner. Either way I will get in my veggies how I please, nice and raw.
John Larson
before i went on green smoothies i steamed plenty of greens and got some scary kidney stones (calcium stones). the doctor told me to drink lots of water. Since I went on green smoothies I have not had any. Green smoothies are greens and at least on acid fruit. I add two tablespoons of braggs vinegar to my smoothie. You can also add fresh lemon juice(one lemon) all my fruits and veggies are organic as well as the hemp powder, flax seed, choc nibs, ginger, garlic, turmeric, olive oil and coconut oil
will
I can’t tell if this spammer is trying to get back and the blogger for this post, or spam out all of the critical comments from the first pages of view. Either way, scuzzy move and you’re screwing over anyone subscribed to comments.
Thanks for that.
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Kate
Wow…I know this is from 2012, but I was thinking of making green smoothies of my health kick of 2014. But this post made me think twice.
Thanks
Kate
Bobby
Wow, this article could not be more wrong. I don’t even know where to begin to engage on this.
SPD
I started these green smoothies recently, started drinking more water and added an hour walk each day. Feeling so much better, sleeping better, and so much more energy. I experiment with various smoothies, always adding a green leafy veg as a base. I’ve been excited about this healthy new routine and was dismayed to read this article. It just can’t have 100% validity….and why would parents be making these for their kids to disguise the nutrients in a pleasing taste based on credible health articles? I feel like I shouldn’t have one every day now after reading this – everytime we turn around, something else told that was originally good for us is now bad for us. Who in the world can be believed???? I can imagine blending up vegetables and fruits is a negative thing. Ay yi yi
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
It’s negative if you overdo … you also haven’t been doing it long enough to assess the long term negative benefits of overconsumption of raw leafy greens.
MHT
I’ve been making green smoothies pretty much every day for over three years. I definitely feel better with them than without them. I make a 32 oz. or larger smoothie.
Laners
LOLOL, are you citing YOUR own articles as sources?
2/3’s of your sources are from articles you wrote, which in academia (college grads, masters, doctorates) is a joke. You can NEVER cite your own sources and be taken seriously…even 19 year old college students studying soft sciences like psychology know this basic tenant.
Your article and it’s title–very misleading. Not trying to be rude here but it is what it is.
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Nikki Hurst
Ahhh – oxalates. Yes. People with any type of kidney or yeast issues are advised to stay away from large amounts of foods that contain oxalates. Which are actually in many fruits veggies and grains. This type of article is quite typical – but really, it’s not something you should worry about UNLESS you are prone to yeast or kidney problems …. PLUS, a smoothie a day, part greens part fruit, is hardly a copious amount of anything ….. just sayin’.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Who has yeast problems today? EVERYONE.
c
not me. yuck and i eat my greens all kinds of ways, everyday in every meal. but thanks…
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John
Interesting article, but I’m sure green smoothies are fine in
moderation (for most people).
(Some of the healthiest people in the world eat truckloads’
of greens.)
latvian
oh great. lets all believe this random article on the internet and lets drink coke.
Vlachos
The day that having a lot of greens is detrimental to my health is the day I die. Give me a break with this artcle. lol. Can’t win it seems…
mik
http://www.rawfamily.com/
This is the family who invented green smoothies. They lived on nothing but kale / banana smoothies for 4+ months, and only then they started too feel something. So yes if you want to live on no thing but kale for ½ a year sure, maybe you should reconsider. But if you have ½ a brain just rotate your greens like they do.. We have been drinking 2-4 green smoothies every day for about 3 years now. No problems – rotate your greens
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Bennent
Ok, enough! Now healthy food is bad for you too? For every article touting something healthy, there is another saying it’s not. Eggs are good! Eggs are bad! Eat nuts! Nuts will kill you! etc etc. I’ve had it with this crap. No more reading what everyone else thinks.
will
I don’t call sitting around a table sucking down Coors Lite a life either, Casey. Or wondering why I feel like complete garbage but it has nothing to do with what I’m consuming.
Casey
Everyone line up for your shots of wheat grass. You call that a life?
Aaron
Has anyone here heard of the Gerson Therapy? Literally thousands of people worldwide have been cured of cancer and many other chronic degenerative diseases. The main component of this radical change of lifestyle (therapy)? Juices. Apple/carrot juices and green juices (leafy green lettuces like romain, water crest, swiss chard, escarole, beet tops, etc.). You have to drink around 10-13 a day. To be fair, they advise against eating raw spinach on the therapy because of the oxalates…but to say that drinking green juices can be detrimental to your health is completely flawed and poor advised. Note: I don’t completely agree with all the philosophy behind the Gerson therapy and I am definitely not anti-meat/protein/animal fat. I love them and consume them daily. However, I am pro-truth…and this article provides little of it. It’s very disappointing to me.
For those interested, here are 2 documentaries on the Gerson Therapy:
Dying to Have Known:
http://youtu.be/DoUl7F7dWdE
The Beautiful Truth
http://youtu.be/9cMOKTlBlDk
Mercedes
People please do not forget the emotional nature of diseases. We are energy, and our vibration affects our body. Before blaming the green smoothies for causing any disease on you, I would have a look inside your mind and emotions first. Our body talks to us, please let us listen.
I believe that is more important to be at peace with what we eat, than trying to have the imaginary “perfect” diet, that is not, and never be the same for everybody. Just listen to your body and try to eat natural organic foods.
And just for the record, freens are full of life, that energy that will heal you from everything
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hopefulinnd
The author just says that some people have this condition. I am one, and am so glad I read this because now that I have stopped the smoothies, I am symptom-free. And it was no fun!!
Susan
Green smoothies are fine.
http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green-smoothies/oxalates-spinach-oxalic-acid-health-concern/
Brandon
The operative word is “can”. That means they (oxalates) “can” have negative health consequences, but not always. Normal human gut flora contains the Oxalobacter formigenes bacteria which helps the bowels utilize oxalates safely. So if you’re concerned about the dangers of oxalates take a good probiotic that contains Oxalobacter formigenes to help strengthen those colonies and you’ll be fine.
Also, don’t confuse oxalates with oxidation. Oxalate is a stable ion so there aren’t any worries about it doing damage as a “free radical” (if my memory of organic chemistry is reliable it could be oxidized to form a free radical, but it would have to lose 2 electrons in the process which is highly unlikely).
Michael R
The Benefits FAR Outweigh the Negatives!
I find it hard to believe what is written in this article. To me it sounds like the author is blindly accepting some very poor research, based on one side affect of what is common sense. Eating nutrient rich dark greens like spinach and kale have far more health benefits than these negatives she so speaks of. If you have the ignorance to believe this well I feel sorry for you. Most North Americans have terrible diets to begin with, and adding a green smoothie to your diet in the morning might have some adverse affect, because the body may not be used to such high nutrient intake. So instead of removing the positive healthy green smoothies from the diet, perhaps think about some of the other foods you eat during the day, like the 20oz steak that is not mentioned in a negative light in the article that “The healthy home economist” cited in this article.
I’ve been drinking green smoothies for well over 3 years now, and I’d never go back.
Michael.
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hopefulinnd
I have been bothered by terrible itching and burning every time I urinate. The doctor was puzzled as there was no bacterial infection. The condition coincided with the start of a veggie smoothie breakfast plan. I noticed that when I traveled and did not do the smoothies, my condition improved, but worsened again immediately after resuming the diet. So…I guess I am one of those folks who cannot tolerate the veggie smoothies, which is a bummer.
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Kathy @ paleo for better health
There different opinions regarding this green smoothie article,and maybe what the writer has been referring to is excessive addiction to green smoothie. I guess what will work for some, will not work for everyone. We are entitled to our opinions and beliefs, my stand is if you take green smoothies and feel good about it then so be it. However, if you have been experiencing the symptoms stated above, then the best option might be to try to reduce your green smoothies and see what it happens. I’d like to share an article I read that when taking smoothies we should still “chew” or move at least our mouth up and down to produce saliva. The article says that saliva contains an enzyme called Ptyalin that aids in digestion.
For those of you who would like to do further reading on this “chewing” thing here is the link to that article: http://healthywildandfree.com/are-you-chewing-your-smoothies-juices/
Sarita Coren
Oh dear! Finally people are eating, drinking, and enjoying veggies again, then someone comes along to say that’s no good either. Here’s my policy: most everything is fine in moderation. Know your body and what feels good. Listen to it. Eat and enjoy. Don’t worry so much. Worry and fear probably create more precursors to disease than oxalates.
Roman Kuchinskiy
this article made me so sad though not enough study shows it effect people who need to consume high amounts then a normal person, like people with crohns or colitis. to much of anything can kill you. too much of b12 will cause tumors and cancers
Marlene Belschner
Aloha…I live in Hawaii. We grow a plant here called Taro or Kalo. This plant has spinach like leaves. However, it is very high in oxalates. The oxalates are so high that if you tried to eat it raw – it would cut your mouth and throat up. You have to cook the leaves. However, if there are any raw-foodist out there that are so attached to their positionality and opinion of how great raw food is … go ahead and eat it raw. Then come back and let me know. Some things were meant to be cooked. Ancient Hawaiians lived off of cooked Taro for decades… centuries – in perfect health …. no disease … till the white man with processed sugar showed up. Also, there have been recent studies done that prove that cooked carrots provide the body with more nutrients than raw carrots. Also, look at the research done by Dr. Masaru Emoto (Messages From Water and other books) he shows that there are different nutrients that are released from cooked spinach vs raw spinach. In my opinion, none is better … just different and are both needed … in moderation. Jesus said to walk the middle path … meaning live life in moderation … not extremes .. that would included eating. To much of an alkaline diet and body is just as bad and dangerous as an acidic body and diet. Mother Nature is about balance … our original body design was about balance. Eat and live in balance. That would included a percentage of the diet being consumed as cooked food … mainly the ones that release more or different nutrients or remove harmful substances such as oxalates from the food. Even Gabriel Cousens recommends 20% cooked foods diet. Please, the answer is balance in all things … including diet. Aloha!
Susan
Thanks for this interesting article.
I have a green smoothie almost every morning. My question is, when you say, “large quantities,” how much, precisely, is that. The amount of greens I can fit into my smoothie is not very much; about one large kale leaf, for example. I doubt if this will cause any problems and I also rotate the type of greens used.
chod
I am terrified of these high oxalates. I believe that unprocessed raw foods are the work of the devil and will be the death of us all. I suggest a SPAM and butter smoothie instead of green smoothies, which will definitely devastate your health.
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Elizabeth (@destinycoach)
There is an Iodine Deficiency epidemic going on in Western Countries. Other than Japan, people are massively deficient in most countries. Among dozens of problems, kidney stones are also caused by Iodine deficiency.
Sarah
I’ve just started making smoothies and trying to eat healthier – now I find out this? I like having a little bit of spinach in it, and I like spinach salad as well. I have fibro also, so I will have to watch my intake of these oxalates. I also hear they interfere with absorption of iron, which most people eat spinach for!
chod
If it is posted on the internet it must be true……
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Lisa
Hello!
Thank you for your article.
I have been reading about this topic for a while, and it seems wherever I look, there is another opinion. I would very much like to see any citation for this information if you have it. Some places say that you can eat a lot of greens if you rotate them and eat them raw only, some say cooking will create oxalates so not to cook greens, some say to only consume them lightly steamed, some say not to eat them at all. What are we supposed to eat? Fruit has too much sugar, meat is too acidic and low in fiber, grains spike the blood sugar, and now leafy greens are too high in oxalates. My head is spinning….
Thanks for any citations you can offer.
Lisa
marie
Hear, hear!
And dairy is mucous forming but raw milk solves all problems, grains have anti-nutrients, and potatoes are too starchy and starch is bad, and cooked foods form acrylimides (sp?), but raw food is hard to digest, it goes on and on . . . .
I have now decided to go on anecdotal evidence and my own trial and error to figure out all these nutritional paradoxes. One such piece of evidence is this: My father has had several oxylate kidney stones. He never touches greens and rarely eats any other food that contains oxylates. He does, however eat a 100% processed food diet and drinks soda instead of water.
For the heck of it, I went online to see what foods HELP get rid of kidney stones and kidney problems in general since I’d be next in line for these problems if this is a hereditary thing. One of those foods was PARSLEY which is very high in oxylates! There were also several anecdotal stories of people curing their kidney stones/problems with parsley.
My 2 cents theory on this one is that the high vitamin k content in the greens keeps all the calcium and oxylate in solution so the stones can’t form.
My verdict is still out on the fruit, meat, grains, etc, . High protein/fat gives me heartburn and constipation, high fruit gives me tooth decay, but green juices help all of these problems, and no oxylate issues after months of consuming. So I’m not ready to give them up yet.
Elizabeth (@destinycoach)
Oxalate is destroyed by Vitamin C – which by the way is also contained in almost ALL green raw vegetables. While the cooking process destroys Vitamin C, it does not destroy oxalates. People get kidney stones not by drinking green smoothies, but by eating cooked, dead vegetables. This article is extremely misleading. Do not fall for this.
Chanelle
I am NOT falling for this either. I have been drinking about 40 ounces of green smoothie about 6 days per week, mostly kales, with some berries and coconut milk, flax, cacao and spirulina, for more than two years. Before this, I HAD previously suffered from very large kidney stones, 8mm and had to have two surgeries to remove them. Then, I stopped taking calcium supplement chews and pills and began getting all my calcium from my foods. I have not had any more stones and feel great. In fact, my diet is completely vegan (for 2 1/2 years now) and I have the best blood work results you will ever see. The food allergies I had before eliminating dairy products are now gone, too, etc. There is NO WAY I’m giving up my greens!
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
OMG. I will pray for you. Seriously … ? This is really scary what you are doing and not at all healthy.
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Sarah Cairncross
I just a really good response to this blog post. I’d advise everyone to read this too but above all, listen to YOUR body and trust yourself.
http://kimberlysnyder.net/blog/2012/05/29/response-to-article-how-green-smoothies-can-devastate-your-health/
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sally
GOOD GRIEF – I have to worry about genetically modified foods….I have to worry about non organic foods……..oh no, red meats……..watch that you dont eat too much protein…..oh and stick to complex carbs…………no sugar or cut that down too………
NOW Smoothies are bad – WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO EAT – I am ready to throw in the towel
All of these articles are VERY upsetting and worrisome but as I say – WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO EAT and really WHO is the expert as even experts & doctors disagree
so – STOP THE MADNESS SOMEONE PLEASE
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Kylie Heenan
Not all greens are high in oxalic acid, eg. kale (which is great in smoothies BTW). Spinach, parsley and chard are highest. And you fail to mentioned that carrots, beets and sweet potato are also high in oxalic acid, but you don’t suggest not eating them. I don’t think this is about green smoothies. It is about eating a BALANCED diet and that means not having only greens all day long. If you make a green smoothie with five or six leaves of green, or a handful of something like dandelion, you are not going to get kidney stones, unless perhaps if you have gout, arthritis or another kidney issue already existing. Keeping it real.
Kerrie
Ahhhh, the highly educated, well-intended naysayers.
Educating people about entering a conscious relationship with their own body is the very heart of any discussion that presumes the topic of nutritional balance.
A topic, most Americans are truly clueless to understand wirh significant benefit for their own physiological reality.
A canvas of much more in-depth and simultaneous breadth, is the approach to take when attempting generalized information giving of this nature.
Life is precious and nutrition-based health is a time-centered relationship with each individual and their own body. Value conscious development of this fact and stop catering to fear-based information proliferation, because the fact that the writer means well seems a given.
Just take these choices as a community nutritional dissemination role far more consciously_ responsibly.
Understanding the relationship to the body was a warning Aristotle left to us all: “If by age thirty you do not know your own body, you are a fool.”
Nutrition and the rest of life are inexorably linked_ gentle wholistic, nutritional education matters greatly.
Carl Mason-Liebenberg
Much has already been said in regards to this article so I’ll simply say that I do most definitely disagree with this theology on dark leafy greens. I think it is just one more bit of information that does little more than confuse the consumer. Eat your dark leafy greens..in your smoothie or otherwise!
Shelley
I guess I have the perfect storm of health problems to have oxalate issues — bad fat metabolism and a leaky gut. Thankfully, I have a faster marker than kidney stones: a high PTH that causes confusion, memory loss, and more. (Parathyroid hormone is released when the body is not getting enough calcium from digestion and signals the body to pull it out of the bones.)
I always wondered why my PTH remained high and I still did not feel well after years on a paleo diet until my PTH went through the roof on a green juice fast last week (both the paleo diet and most veggies used for juicing contain high oxalate foods that bind calcium). Of course it did not help that I was not digesting fats (which also binds up calcium). On the bright side, I think I have just found my answers. I think a low oxalate, paleo, GAPS diet is possible, though not very sexy, for sure.
cobalamin
This….
http://nutritionfacts.org/questions/what-is-the-best-diet-for-kidney-stone-prevention/
And this…
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21170875
star
..at best i take this as something to vaguely note if one has leaky gut. ( me ),
i am sensitive to oxalates and my body tells me no or when its too much.
The avg person would have to have a ton , a ton of high oxalate foods on a consistent basis.
oxalate clears the system relatively quickly.
“Ordinarily, the gut won’t absorb much of the oxalate from the diet because most of the oxalate will be metabolized by the flora or just leave the body with the stool. Under other conditions, such as when there is gut inflammation, a lot of dietary oxalate is absorbed. The difference can be as great as going from 1-2% of the dietary oxalate absorbed to as high as 50%.”
this long list of food ( including many fruits ) with oxalate names celery, beet greens, dandelion, kale, parsley, spinach and swiss chard n the greens category .. ( I will add my fav herb purslane to this list )
http://www.upmc.com/patients-visitors/education/nutrition/pages/low-oxalate-diet.aspx
Laurie
Actually, Donna Gates has a different take, specifically on oxalates and cooking….http://bodyecology.com/articles/boiling-your-vegetables-low-oxalate-solution-reduce-pain.php#.UX7bs0Ql1_s
Laurie
Donna Gates/bodyecology.org has a different take specifically on the oxalate levels when cooking. You can read about it here: http://bodyecology.com/articles/boiling-your-vegetables-low-oxalate-solution-reduce-pain.php#.UX7bs0Ql1_s
johnny s
its ‘alkalanize’ or ‘to make something alkaline’
not ‘alkalize’ … i am not trying to become alkali
fyi
Mike Ellwood
Good(-ish) point, but by analogy with “acidify”, should it not be “alkalify”?
Robert B
Honestly the most ridiculous thing i’ve heard of.
Even if you had provided us with actual evidence of this would you all not agree that first of all we can’t really eat much then as everything that is sold in our stores today is basically modified from it’s natural state which surely has to be one of the most unhealthy things.
Second, I live in the UK when i go shopping i look at the products and barely anything is ever locally sourced of course people will be getting unwell, when we had this horse meat scandal in the beef from our stores the media released alot of articles one of them showed you how the meat was Coming from Romania then going to 6 other countries before it reached the UK hardly Fresh food is it?
Thirdly, surely things like the 4000 chemicals in cigarettes that millions and millions of people are smoking and inhaling everyday is far worse then some spinach?
William
I was probably being overly optimistic that day.
(Re:last comment)
Clell Adams
Instead of getting on a high horse and berating Sarah, just read the linked article and do your own research. http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders
The percent of folks who read the linked article before they posted their comments is probably about 2%.
Tif
You should be ashamed of yourself for discouraging people from eating more fruits and vegetables, which is proven to be extremely healthy for people.
All vegetables have naturally occurring compounds such as oxalate that BOOST our immune system. In order to prevent build up of these compounds and possible ill-effects, we need to eat a VARIETY of vegetables, not limit them. Eating handfuls of spinach alone each day for months can cause harm but a variety of greens is necessary.
Stop discouraging people from eating more fruits and vegetables. Would you rather them eat processed and refined foods?
Dee
Await a mintue .. Ha! How can drinking raw vegtables and fruit be bad for you? I’ve had several doctors tell me to eat as much veggies and fruit as I can and cut out processed foods. NEVER, has a doctor said eating too healthy it bad for you. There are so many stupid blogs and advice online that make no sense. Before I started drinking green smoothies I was always bloated and tired. Now, my stomach has gone down and I wake of energized. I find myself wanting a green smoothie becasue I feel good after drinking them.
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William
If you read through the bulk of the comments beyond the reactionary ones just stating how bunk they think the article is, no one is suggesting they are on an ‘all smoothie’ or ‘all greens’ diet. From what I gathered they are having on average one a day, for breakfast, and have clued me in that most are smart enough to rotate the ingredients.
DAMIAN GREEN
I disagree with this article. What about people who eat salad every day?
Jonathan
The idea is that one kind of food and one food only is a bad idea. A salad everyday does not mean just a salad. People tend to eat salad with other food. You would agree that just eating a salad everyday without variation would be bad?
If you eat a salad with iceberg lettuce, spinach, cheese, and a bit of chicken every day without anything else thats not good.
Its not saying anything is unhealthy as a general rule even high oxalate greens….I keep wondering if people are reading a different article than I am.
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Glenda
Completely missed the point of Green Smoothies.
A very negative view of something very healthy.
Processed food, crisps, burgers……. You eat what you want and I will continue to eat healthy food, whxih will include green smoothies.
Karen A.
I think what the author of this article is saying that consuming a LOT of green leafy vegetables MAY not be good for SOME people, especially those suffering from a candida yeast or fungal overgrowth. I had a yeast overgrowth for years and had to make some dietary changes which drastically improved my health. I starting eating almonds, lots of them, not knowing that they are very high in oxalates, as well as a lot of other healthy foods, almost all high in oxalates. Even though I started out feeling better I soon started experiencing a lot of pain, and further research led me to the pain-oxalate connection. I am now on a low oxalate diet and the pain level has gone down. So good for you if you do not have issues that require you to be on a low oxalate diet…this is not the case for everyone. But it certainly can have benefits for a lot of people, including those with autism.
Shelly
Karen, the same exact thing happened to me! I was eating almonds by the handful, along with lots of spinach and a few other high oxalate foods –AND– eating less calcium on my gluten and dairy free diet. The pain seriously interfered with my life and my doctor’s only advice was putting me on low dose estrogen for the rest of my life. Fortunately I looked into things on my own and discovered the oxalate connection. After avoiding just the foods that are high and very high in oxalate for two days, my pain cleared up. I am since completely off the estrogen (thank goodness!!), eating low and medium oxalate foods (which is seriously easy enough to do!), taking calcium citrate with each meal, and completely back to normal!!
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linda
i do not see any references in this article. you need proof to base your facts on.
Lynda
This information is rather misleading, there has been not a single case of health issues related to the consumption of green leafy vegetables, just the entire opposite, in fact there is an article wich clear us out so many myths about oxalic acid and how this in fact is good for us, almost every single one of the natural remedies or plants that are recogn to have anti-cancer properties are oxalic acid rich. You can check this information here!
http://health-cancertreatment.blogspot.mx/2008/01/oxalic-acid-cure-for-cancer.html
Jonathan
Its misleading that you can have too many oxalates? Considering the fact that you can have too much of anything including water…I think you can have too many oxalates.
If your stomach bursts from eating 20 pounds of spinach…I think that’s too many oxalates. Its doubtful that its healthy to eat over a certain amount. You can have too much of anything.
Ken
But to post such an article about Green drinks as if its as bad as eating a hamburger and ff i find outrageous!!!!!!! I rather have kidney stones then heart disease
Jonathan
@Ken btw my name is spelled Jonathan….its a pet peeve…its not Johnathan no biggy…anyway
Why don’t you try and read my links and watch the video on the link about saturated fat? Saturated fat is not as bad as you think it is. The body needs saturated fat. The basis for saturated fats being called evil is flawed.
There is plenty of good information if you would just read it instead of ignoring. Dr. Steven Gundry is an expert on fat. That podcast explains much of the issue with fats. There are indeed people that get inflammation from animal fats besides fish and seafood. That set of people is small.
It is an issue with the saturated fat and how it reacts with their systems, but the saturated fat from vegetable sources such as coconut oil or red palm oil are fine for them. Also since fish contains little saturated fat it is also fine for them.
Jonathan
@Ken
This article mentions some ways of eating greens besides eating them raw and mentions the fact that some people can have issues while eating too many greens raw.
It is not saying that green drinks are as bad as eating hamburgers….That is a stretch. Its saying you can overdo green smoothies. You can overdo pretty much anything including water which everyone of course needs, but if you drink too much too fast you will die.
Its sad but people keep seeming to want to make this article mean something it doesn’t….the author is not saying that vegetables are worse than junk food or that you shouldn’t have green smoothies at all or anything of the sort. They are saying people shouldn’t just drink green smoothies and nothing else. They are saying green smoothies and just green smoothies can be an issue.
There have been some explanations for why this can lead to problems. Much of it because really high Oxalate greens are used while not using other greens at all.
Just try eating just Spinach and nothing else in green smoothies for a weeks on end….the result won’t be good. That doesn’t mean that I’m saying a Spinach smoothie is bad…just that too much of something can be bad.
Cathrine
I have had a green smoothie, just about every day for twenty years….Prior to ingesting green smoothies, I had weak kidneys…I had cancer, I had achy joints….Now I have strong kidneys, no cancer and no more achy joints….You cannot have too many greens…The closest substance on earth to human blood, which makes human tissue, muscle and bone is the Blood of plants…chlorophyll…There is only one molecule difference and that is magnesium…which we need for healing. In WW II in Italy when they ran out of human blood they would give intravenous drips of GREEN JUICE….The more green I eat and drink, the better I feel….No one, not anyone believes my age…I hike, run, do intense yoga and still have an active career and I can outdo most women 1/2 my age. Green Smoothies ARE NOT HARMFUL…
Jonathan
@Catherine
I think people are being way too defensive with this article…no one is saying vegetables are bad for you. No one is saying Green Smoothies are bad and you should never drink one.
Again no one said Green Smoothies are necessarily bad. They said that too much of a good thing can be a problem. This is true for everything including water….you said you had 1 green smoothie every day for twenty years?….Perhaps more some days?
Did you ever eat anything else? I’m guessing the answer is yes. The problem isn’t in Green smoothies but green smoothies with only one type of vegetable all the time while eating nothing else.
I guess it could be made up….but I’m guessing if people are talking about health issues related to consuming too many greens that its certainly possible. Perhaps it doesn’t happen much, but that doesn’t mean its impossible…its possible to drink too much water and water is one of the most important things for us to have good health.
So it only makes sense that there is an amount of greens which is too much.
I guess people are too caught up in their own defensive reflex that they aren’t reading what I’m saying…because no one has said anything about it.
Ken
So what your saying is Olive oil is good for you? i suggest you watch Dr. Caldwell B Esselstyn youtube video or read his studies…… Again we can either keep cutting people open, which doesn’t cure them…or we can stop heart disease in it’s tracks. People can decide, but remember moderation kills because the disease will continue progress. His studies shows just weeks after stopping all animal and oils the vessel open dramatically and the profusion flow of blood is shocking.
William
Why should he listen to you, he provided 3 articles and you refused to even glance at them.
Never constrict yourself to a biased doctrine that refuses to ever stand corrected — despite all the evidence of bunk studies ignoring the grains, starches, and sugars consumed with the oils and fats in question, as well as the cooking methods.
What about the constant floods of people curing themselves of the same things you mention, but with oils (in moderation) and quality meat and eggs as well as raw vegetables and some fruit? There are a steady stream of positive results from people with no bias in the world other than that they were unhealthy under doctor’s and dietician’s orders until they started eating that way. If it made them sicker, those people would be up in arms about it — it’s far easier to vent on the internet than it is to type up good experiences, as far as an average citizen with health concerns goes.
People have been combining the value of raw vedge, SOME fruit, and a couple healthy oils and meats in moderation and having the same claims of curing themselves of heart disease and diabetes, and baffling their doctors. I’m not trying to convert you, just try not to box yourself in to a doctrine that may have bias since there are conflicting studies constantly being published.
I can point you to studies proving the effect too much fresh fruit fructose has on the liver almost immediately, (despite any fiber buffer present) but that would be ignored too.
In recent news, they found arterial blockage in mummies – something that might back up your stance a bit more than mine.
Ken
All oil has saturated fat, a know killer….keep using oil if you like
Dr Scott Phillips
Ken,
That’s just not true – have you heard of mono-unsaturated fatty acids and poly-unsaturated fatty acids? In fact, a defining property of oil – liquid at room temperature, is BECAUSE it isn’t saturated. So, not sure what you are trying to accomplish with your post, but it is just completely wrong.
Jonathan
@Ken
More unwarranted fat phobia. The issue in The United States as well as many other countries with large rates of heart disease, cancer, and other chronic health conditions is processed foods and sugar. A whole foods diet of unprocessed foods including meats does not promote inflammation except as described below in regards to some small subset of people who don’t deal with animal fats well.
Fat is only a an issue regarding cancer when the wrong fats are consumed. Inflammation is at the root of cancer and many other chronic conditions. An ideal Omega 3/6 ratio is one of the more important issues. That ratio is around 1:4 3/6 to 1:1.
One of the major reasons cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and other chronic conditions are on the rise is that people are eating too many Omega 6 oils in processed foods. People have a range of ratios from 1:20 to 1:200 depending on how much processed junk food with Omega 6 oils they eat. Omega 6 fats are not bad but when they aren’t balanced with Omega 3s it leads to inflammation.
Much of it is vegetable, corn, and soy oil. They are PUFAs that end up getting oxidized in the process of making the processed foods and makes them even worse. Further hydrogenation of oils creates trans fats that are even worse than Omega 6s out of balance.
Saturated fat is good for us as long as its not paired with large amounts of carbohydrates as in junk food. Candy, hamburgers, hotdogs etc.. Many of the “high fat foods” are also high in carbohydrates and there in lies the problem.
They drive blood sugar and insulin up and lead to inflammation.
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believ e-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-straight-dope-on-chol esterol-part-i
http://www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/2013/01/35-dr-steven-gun dry-high-fat-diets-good-vs-bad/
There are some people who may want to avoid animal foods besides fish because they may promote inflammation. These people should only get saturated fat from coconut oil and other vegetable sources.
Its about 20% of people and can be determined by an ApoE gene typing test as detailed in the Gundry podcast.
ken
@johnathan.
I never said fat!!!! Where did you get that from, read Dr Caldwell Esselstyn study how they reversed heart disease, everything else is BS…we know what cause heart disease, why keep putting fuel on the fire? 500,000 people will die from heart Disease and another insane amount will suffer. they have a study about the so called good oil, olive Oil, it still promotes plaque. people have cured themselves from diabetis from going all plant. It works, you may not believe it. they did tests on after just 1 meal of meat your arteries constrict
Ken
Funny, The united states has the highest rate of heart disease. If you want to see where they have the lowest, you can find it. It’s where people comsume almost 100% Fruits and vegetables. Its been now proven, if you remove all animals from your diet and oils you can now either stop heart disease and even reverse it. You can also cure diabetes as well
Diane
This article was very informative. From it I discovered I have an high oxalate problem. It got me looking at everything else I’m eating and drinking and I discovered that black and green tea is very high in oxalates. That means I Have to stay off of Kombucha, too. I’ve been substituting different kefer drinks in its place, but boy do I miss the kombucha.
William
source:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cancerupdate.asp
William
@Kathy
While I and most of us agree with most of what is posted in that forward, that forward is fraudulent, as Hopkins Univ never published that info, and actually has a warning on their site addressing this fraudulent email that started circulating around 2007.
I agree with the things mentioned, but it makes the whole cause look bad if someone had to flat out lie and be deceptive to get their message out there. There is no need for deception, that all can be helpful, but it’s dangerous to abuse information like that. I can only assume that whoever originally made the false claims knew it would quickly be exposed in hopes to invalidate all the wonderful claims that can indeed be very helpful.
That said, It’s extremely important to put that in perspective. What better way to detract people from truths we don’t want them to know than to discredit and expose as a fraud? Because “who’d take any of it seriously after knowing the context was forged?”. We know better. But we must check out sources.
kathy
AFTER YEARS OF TELLING PEOPLE CHEMOTHERAPY IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRY (‘TRY’, BEING THE KEY WORD) TO ELIMINATE CANCER, JOHNS HOPKINS IS FINALLY STARTING TO TELL YOU THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE WAY .
Cancer Update from Johns Hopkins:
1. Every person has cancer cells in the body.. These cancer
cells do not show up in the standard tests until they have
multiplied to a few billion. When doctors tell cancer patients
that there are no more cancer cells in their bodies after
treatment, it just means the tests are unable to detect the
cancer cells because they have not reached the detectable
size.
2. Cancer cells occur between 6 to more than 10 times in a
person’s lifetime.
3. When the person’s immune system is strong the cancer
cells will be destroyed and prevented from multiplying and
forming tumors.
4. When a person has cancer it indicates the person has
nutritional deficiencies. These could be due to genetic,
but also to environmental, food and lifestyle factors.
5. To overcome the multiple nutritional deficiencies, changing
diet to eat more adequately and healthy, 4-5 times/day
and by including supplements will strengthen the immune system.
6. Chemotherapy involves poisoning the rapidly-growing
cancer cells and also destroys rapidly-growing healthy cells
in the bone marrow, gastrointestinal tract etc., and can
cause organ damage, like liver, kidneys, heart, lungs etc.
7. Radiation while destroying cancer cells also burns, scars
and damages healthy cells, tissues and organs.
8. Initial treatment with chemotherapy and radiation will often
reduce tumor size.
However prolonged use of chemotherapy and radiation do not result in more tumor destruction.
9.. When the body has too much toxic burden from
chemotherapy and radiation the immune system is either
compromised or destroyed, hence the person can succumb
to various kinds of infections and complications.
10. Chemotherapy and radiation can cause cancer cells to
mutate and become resistant and difficult to destroy.
Surgery can also cause cancer cells to spread to other sites.
11. An effective way to battle cancer is to starve the cancer
cells by not feeding it with the foods it needs to multiply.
*CANCER CELLS FEED ON:
a. Sugar substitutes like NutraSweet, Equal, Spoonful, etc. are made
with Aspartame and it is harmful. A better natural substitute
would be Manuka honey or molasses, but only in very small
amounts. Table salt has a chemical added to make it white in
color Better alternative is Bragg’s aminos or sea salt.
b. Milk causes the body to produce mucus, especially in the
gastro-intestinal tract. Cancer feeds on mucus.. By cutting off milk and substituting with unsweetened soy milk cancer cells are being starved.
c. Cancer cells thrive in an acid environment. A meat-based
diet is acidic and it is best to eat fish, and a little other meat,
like chicken. Meat also contains livestock antibiotics, growth hormones and parasites, which are all harmful, especially to people with cancer.
d.. A diet made of 80% fresh vegetables and juice, whole
grains, seeds, nuts and a little fruits help put the body into
an alkaline environment. About 20% can be from cooked
food including beans. Fresh vegetable juices provide live
enzymes that are easily absorbed and reach down to
cellular levels within 15 minutes to nourish and enhance
growth of healthy cells. To obtain live enzymes for building
healthy cells try and drink fresh vegetable juice (most
vegetables including bean sprouts) and eat some raw
vegetables 2 or 3 times a day. Enzymes are destroyed at
temperatures of 104 degrees F (40 degrees C)..
e. Avoid coffee, tea, and chocolate, which have high
caffeine Green tea is a better alternative and has cancer
fighting properties. Water-best to drink purified water, or
filtered, to avoid known toxins and heavy metals in tap
water. Distilled water is acidic, avoid it.
12. Meat protein is difficult to digest and requires a lot of
digestive enzymes. Undigested meat remaining in the
intestines becomes putrefied and leads to more toxic buildup.
13.. Cancer cell walls have a tough protein covering. By
refraining from or eating less meat it frees more enzymes
to attack the protein walls of cancer cells and allows the
body’s killer cells to destroy the cancer cells.
14. Some supplements build up the immune system
(IP6, Flor-ssence, Essiac, anti-oxidants, vitamins, minerals,
EFAs etc.) to enable the bodies own killer cells to destroy
cancer cells.. Other supplements like vitamin E are known
to cause apoptosis, or programmed cell death, the body’s
normal method of disposing of damaged, unwanted, or
unneeded cells.
15. Cancer is a disease of the mind, body, and spirit.
A proactive and positive spirit will help the cancer warrior
be a survivor. Anger, un-forgiveness and bitterness put
the body into a stressful and acidic environment. Learn to
have a loving and forgiving spirit. Learn to relax and enjoy life.
16. Cancer cells cannot thrive in an oxygenated
environment. Exercising daily, and deep breathing help to
get more oxygen down to the cellular level. Oxygen therapy is another means employed to destroy cancer cells.
1. No plastic containers in micro.
2. No water bottles in freezer.
3. No plastic wrap in microwave..
Johns Hopkins has recently sent this out in its newsletters. This information is being circulated at Walter Reed Army Medical Center as well. Dioxin chemicals cause cancer, especially breast cancer. Dioxins are highly poisonous to the cells of our bodies. Don’t freeze your plastic bottles with water in them as this releases dioxins from the plastic. Recently, Dr Edward Fujimoto, Wellness Program Manager at Castle Hospital , was on a TV program to explain this health hazard. He talked about dioxins and how bad they are for us. He said that we should not be heating our food in the microwave using plastic containers. This especially applies to foods that contain fat. He said that the combination of fat, high heat, and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body. Instead, he recommends using glass, such as Corning Ware, Pyrex or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the same results, only without the dioxin. So such things as TV dinners, instant ramen and soups, etc., should be removed from the container and heated in something else. Paper isn’t bad but you don’t know what is in the paper. It’s just safer to use tempered glass, Corning Ware, etc. He reminded us that a while ago some of the fast food restaurants moved away from the foam containers to paper The dioxin problem is one of the reasons.
Please share this with your whole email list…………………….
Also, he pointed out that plastic wrap, such as Saran, is just as dangerous when placed over foods to be cooked in the microwave. As the food is nuked, the high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually melt out of the plastic wrap and drip into the food.. Cover food with a paper towel instead.
This is an article that should be sent to anyone important in your life…
Mike Ellwood
Well an olive is a plant, and so is a coconut.
Olive oil is largely monounsatured (only one double C=C bond).
Coconut oil is largely saturated (no double bonds).
The lack of a double bond means that coconut oil is very stable, even un-refrigerated, and does not degrade over time, or with cooking at fairly high temperatures. It is solid below about 25°C, which means it’s solid at usual UK room temperatures, but is still referred to as an oil, probably because it would be a liquid at room temperature in its usual countries of origin.
Olive oil is somewhat less immune to heat degradation.
Saturated fat is knot a “known killer”. It has been unfairly demonised, partly by vested interests, including the producers of polyunsaturated oils, which are known carcinogens.
As a matter of interest, the fat in beef and other herbivores is a mixture of saturated and mono-unsaturated fat. Quite healthy, especially if the animals are mostly grass-fed.
Mike Ellwood
(Sorry Kathy, that was meant to be a reply to Ken. There was a hiccup in posting).
What I meant to reply to your posting Kathy was that it should have included “No microwaving – ever” (not just no plastic in the microwave).
John
Thank you for this. My aunt has liver cancer. She’s 86 years old. She is receiving chemo and has lost her hair. Her immune system is also very compromised as a result. Imagine doing this to an 86 year old woman, esp. in a cancer that is always fatal. This is an outrageous criminal act, IMHO. We have advised her to some of this info. that you just published, but to no avail. She comes from the generation that submits to any doctor’s authority. The tumors have not significantly shrunk, but the medical establishment will squeeze every dime they can out of her insurance company. I hope and pray future generations will arise with a new consciousness – one that listens to the individual’s body, mind & spirit, rather than seeing people as $$$ -and nuking people as if they are microwaves
William
*margarine
I Didn’t realize there was no edit function.
William
No science that magarine is less healthy than butter, Ryan? The FDA would love you.
Ryan
Interesting post! I’m sure some of it will be helpful to green smoothie junkies out there. I am a bit worried about your margarine comment, however. There really is no science backing your claim that margarine is less healthy than butter, which also makes me question the science behind your other statements. Are your statements backed by clinical trials or studies?
Jonathan
http://wellnessmama.com/2193/why-you-should-never-eat-vegetable-oil-or-margarine/
http://www.drbriffa.com/2006/09/01/is-margarine-really-better-than-butter/
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believe-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/01/enjoy-saturated-fats-theyre-good-for-you.aspx
Butter is better…people have been eating butter for quite a long time long before the obesity epidemic and high rates of diabetes.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/01/enjoy-saturated-fats-theyre-good-for-you.aspx
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caveman diet
Spirulina as well as chlorella had fantastic vegetables along with many benefits.
Robert Smith
Great discussion on this topic, thanks to all..
Ajay
All this information is very interesting if true but it sounds like it is made up or more opinionated than fact. Where is your proof and to back it up there is only one source? Very important research is missing such as how many green are suggested on a daily basis and which leafy greens have the most oxalates. You have the burden of proof since you are writing the argument which to say the least is lacking.
Stefani
This is the biggest load of garbage article I have ever read! Greens are bad? Has this “author” (and I use that term very loosely) gone mad? What a bunch of crock!!!
Becca
This is so obviously contrived nonsense that I figure the author wrote it to get more readers. To that I say, “Well done!”
Now I have to go eat french fries and drink coke, since greens are bad for me : )
Martin
Very disturbing information, while the world is shouting “Greens are good!” I gues the “everything in moderation” applies here too. Thank you
Allie
After a diet of heavy raw veg every day, my digestive system began to revolt. I have a friend Who is pretty much vegan and her stomach hurts all the time. She now takes digestive enzymes to be able to handle all the veg and juicing she does, but still has some stomach pains. I didn’t know digesting the cellulose is hard on the human gut. I had to begin eating only cooked veggies…this also helped out with the cruciferous veg messing with my thyroid as well. Thankfully I used common sense and began to steam or cook my greens and limit cruciferous – my gut is much better. With summer coming I will gradually add more salads, but they will not be the majority of what I eat.
The link below is sensible information about oxalates, I think.
http://www.empoweredsustenance.com/oxalates-the-grain-free-diet-trap/
Jonathan Swaringen
There are some extra nutrients that you get with cooking in some vegetables and it degrades some potentially bad things. I think the problem is the all or nothing attitude….neither raw or cooked is best.
A combination of raw and cooked foods is best because we’ve been dealing with cooked foods for awhile and there are advantages. I don’t think this article was saying never to eat raw…maybe I should reread…subscribed to comments been awhile since I read it…but pretty sure not anyway.
It was pointing out the extra you get out of cooking while saying not to overdue it with certain foods. Someone already pointed out that many who do green smoothies rotate the vegetables and thats probably a good idea and avoids the issue of getting too much of one thing entirely.
We should be eating a variety of raw/cooked/fermented real whole foods. Not just one or the other. The amount that we all need to eat of each is debatable, but I think both all if them is likely best…not all of one and none of the others.
Bill
😉
Sorry for picking – I overlooked your main issue in the process! I agree… though are some who suggest mildly cooking just the spinach portion of our vedge to help unlock the calcium and iron. I dunno if they’re right, but my taste buds still prefer it raw.
Sarah
Agreed! Raw veg all the way!
Sarah (NOT the home economist!)
“Be sure to serve cooked leafy greens with a healthy, traditional fat like butter”
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
How can anyone take this article seriously?!
Bill
The same way someone will take a comment starting with LOLOLOLOL etc seriously if it supports their side. Butter doesn’t make you fat. Neither does a fat just because it’s saturated. Those too, are the results of flawed studies that happened to catch on.
Sarah
Touché!
Butter was not my main issue – I found more humour in the belief that COOKED veg is healthier…
Bill
Sadly I feel the need to preface this with the fact that I eat plenty of animal product and not just one type of “greens”, knowing it’ll still fall on deaf ears.
Not everything that “catches on” is a fad. I’m against fads. I’m also against writing off good ideas because they “got too popular” with certain circles, even if those in certain circles rubbed me the wrong way for whatever reason.
Some things catch on when enough people share what works for them when nothing else did over the years. I’m not talking about weight loss, I’m talking about healing what was left up a creek by every single avenue taken, suggested, or forcibly steered.
I didn’t start eating celery (oh no, nitrates!) and broccoli-slaw (oh no, iodine!) because some hip nutritionist in Portlandia told me to. I started eating it because the one time I had nothing better to snack on yet another day I felt like I was hit by a bus where nothing ever improves that situation for more than a few minutes, I was left wondering how the hell these two items managed to make more improvement in that state than anything else. I was slumped down in my chair giving up my weekend, not showing off to a yoga instructor or whatever fantasy people have about this stuff. Those two things alone, are a chore to choke down (in the morning, when I needed them), especially as my kidneys were not functioning properly. This little tiny revelation was a base that I have worked off of, and I now rarely feel like I’ve been beaten to a pulp every morning I get up and try to face the day.
Please, TELL me I’m a fad. Please tell me I should’ve kept going to my family doctor and living my life like a train-wreck even though I did my best to eat healthy and balanced (and no, not what the Food Pyramid taught me in 2nd grade).
Tell us we’re all fads. At least something actually works. This is not fun stuff to have to worry about, or figure out, or talk about to strangers on the internet at 3 in the morning. If it didn’t actually work, the internet, the NUMBER ONE place to complain in public about all that sh!tty things in life that DIDN’T work for us as promised, would be filled of comments reflecting that. You wouldn’t have to look hard. What is it full of? It’s full of people who went years up a creek after getting nowhere, no matter how many doctors they threw their money at. There are good doctors that are out there are ALWAYS willing to re-evaluate new information and correct their stance and realize when they’re wrong about something and work on it.
And Candida? Lay off the wheat, grains and sugars. Lay off the beans and bread and other baked yummies. Eat some Greek yogurt and honey. Nothing VeGaN about that (I eat meat, eggs cheese, and other good fats), but I sure as hell never got it from kale.
HMiMouCh
Thnks … i like thsi Article !
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Lindsay Glenda Lewis
Healthy Home Economist is an imbecile plain and simple. I think this blog proves that any idiot who wants to go to Best buy or walmart and buy a laptop can write a blog, post it, and call it truth – doesnt mean it is knowledge. Do your research carefully people! Any crack pot with a computer can give themselves a blog name and post something! This is illustrated here with “Healthy Home Economist”
Vida
btw, The ONE research is not peer reviewed. A fact requires consensus among scientists. Unfortunately through your own ignorance and fear you created more baseless fear among the gullible and deterred them from looking after their health. Always fact-check get this ‘health’ article off the net.
Vida
“Autism and Chronic Disorders” sorry can’t make a generalized statement and apply findings in a small group to a whole population.
Tracy
I call bullshit I the article!
John Hamilton
Meh; I have been enjoying green smoothies for four years now. No issues, no problems. You could have as easily said “Leaving Your House Everyday Can Devastate Your Health.”
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Sam Eggers
For more on this, check our Susan Owens’ Trying Low Oxalates group at yahoo groups. She also gives free medical advice to people on the list and reads people’s OATs tests and lets you know if you have an oxalate problem and a ton of other advise too. She asks for a donation, but a lot of people get this medical advice free from her. she’s not a doctor but has a graduate degree and really knows her stuff.
Jan
What a joke… this article talks about cooking your greens with butter?
Some people really do not know what their talking about :/
Eating raw greens enables you to absorbs as many nutrients, minerals and vitamins as possible… also your eating LIVE foods and not DEAD ones (cooked foods).
Jill
Hello,
I have been blending greens for some time now without any adverse effects. My routine include using my nutributtet to blend: kale, spinach, chlorella, spirulina, and a little stevia. I would recommend this to anyone. People should be more concerned about the amount of red meat, soda, fries, cake and deli sandwiches they eat for god sake. I an a 6 year cancer survivor and have never felt better since I started my routine. Alkanization is the way to go in my opinion. I really believe that detoxing your body and getting away from a acidic body is of paramount importance.
ewelina
people think for yourself, do not let them brainwash you!!!!!
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48
Andy
My green drink: cos lettuce cucumber celery and if you can get some wheatgrass great also sometimes broccoli. Put through a good juicer eat nothing else for an hour or it might make you ill. Don’t mix with any fruits or carrots. I also eat golden lint seed and hemp seed about 2 table spoons of each may be add to your cereal
Hank
It seems like this article may be excluding one important aspect of the current American diet. Most of us Americans have been living on cooked foods most of our lives. Introducing healthy green smoothies is a shock to our bodies, therefore, causing a slow healing transition where all these “symptoms” come up. When we go raw, our bodies start to extract the decades of built up waste from cooked dead foods. The only way to achieve true health is to eat uncooked foods and especially not with a slab of butter.
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Kerry
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water! I have just started drinking green smoothies and in the Green Smoothie Bible by Kristine Miles she talks about oxalates and the need to vary your greens so that you don’t have too much of them. I came to this site because I am seeking information on which greens contain which substances so that I don’t suffer any adverse health effects. The dangers of consuming a highly processed diet devoid of nutrition are much more prevalent and an article like this one is likely to scare people off making a positive change in what they eat. I can hear the vested interests applauding!!!!!
this guide
Having read this I thought it was rather enlightening.
I appreciate you finding the time and effort to put
this article together. I once again find myself personally spending a significant amount
of time both reading and posting comments. But so what, it was still worthwhile!
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Angela
I must apologize. I choked on my green smoothie when I read this.
There might as well have been an aside in this article reading, “so head to McDonald’s and enjoy Frankenfood.” Sarah, you are not a doctor, nor a licensed clinical nutritionist. So your editorial is just that. An editorial.
Pesticides are a concern. Contamination of produce happens all the time. Green smoothies are great pre and post workout than the sugar-laden “smoothie” bars in gyms and what fast food chains try to pass off as “health” drinks.
kathryn
I think Chris Kresser answers the green smoothie/oxalate issue well. Is your gut damaged? Are you magnesium deficient? Do you eat fat with them? http://chriskresser.com/the-afternoon-sugar-crash-green-smoothies-and-liver-detoxification
Rashelle
Do you have any other sources than this one Dr. Shaw. When you google this man a lot of questionable items appear. You also do not go on to list all the other foods besides greens that are high in oxalates, including fruits, nuts, berries and seeds. Hopefully the people who read this are educated enough to know that every single thing you put in your body has pros and cons. It’s all about moderation. To tell people they should not be eating leafy greens is crazy. The human population got to were we are by those leafy greens, they are needed. It’s about moderation. If all you eat is spinach of course you will get sick the same can be said about any food. Shoot! Oxygen is toxic yet we need the right levels of it to survive. This whole post might be more convincing if there were more than 1 source. Education does not come from 1 place, it comes from all places. 1 source from a man who does not even have any scientific evidence….. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is trying to sell something, just like the “Doctor” who said vaccines are bad so he could market his own…… Who is spending the rest of his life behind bars for what he did. I’m sure I’ll be reading the same about this “Doctor” Shaw too.
justine
For whatever it is worth, I have a masters in nutrition and a bachelor degree from and Ivy League school. Not sure that matters, but everyone here is so edgy and quick to attack, so I thought I would give my credentials.
justine
Funny thing, I read this originally and thought, ok, some people need to rotate their greens, because some percentage of the population is sensitive to oxalates. And I thought that was the end of it. I am a nutrition educator and a former WAPF leader, but hadn’t really looked into the issue beyond what affects that smallish group.
Well, I was wrong. Excruciatingly wrong. I ended up in the ER in December with a kidney stone, accompanied by vulvodynia I had never had. Caused by my pretty high oxalate diet–no smoothies, just lots of high ox foods like almonds, hazelnuts, chard, beets and their greens, tea, chocolate and more…much more. I haven’t been able to eat dairy for years, so the nuts were a convenient go-to food. Oh, add figs and dates to the high ox list–so LaraBars are OUT. Oh, and I had stopped drinking tea last year, after a lifetime of consuming it.
I have now done a ton of research (and thanks very much to Susan Owens and Heidi and everyone else who has paved the way with real research and made it available to us all) and am slowly eliminating the highest oxalate foods. I now see that my body pains and thyroid issues are also related, so the kidney stone did me a service, gave me a wake up call that I am heeding.
People who are dismissing this issue are being pretty intolerant…and you don’t really know if you will be next. So be kind to each other and realize that information is a good thing, not evil. Don’t be so harsh and mean about what someone else says that you don’t agree with. If you don’t like it, ignore it (but know that we will indeed help you when the time comes, even if you were a bit confused and judgmental here.) We all just need to help each other to be well. Dogma doesn’t/shouldn’t enter into it.
BTW, the China Study is a bunch of hooey. Do your research there too. It has so many methodological flaws and been misrepresented so radically that it’s basically useless (and epidemiological studies are only supposed to point out correlations that point to issues for further study using controls and real science).
Thanks for keeping us informed on obscure and controversial topics, Sarah–you never know when the information could prove useful!
Kiki Bacaro
Best post on here!
Mary Houston-Harvey
I am sorry but your diet didn’t make you sick with stones because of oxalates but because your diet was highly acidic period. In order for you blood PH to stay normal with this amount of acidity, it pulled minerals from your bones. When the minerals combined with the acids you created stones. IF you were drinking very alkaline green smoothies…which they are alkaline/—-and enough water to mitigate your overacidic food consumption you would be healthy with no stones. I suggest you relearn how to eat…I have been drinking green smoothies and raw green juices for 20 years…I cured kidney failure and stage 4 non Hodgkins lymphoma. This article and your and the author’s lack of knowledge is dangerous in its misinformation. I am a nutritionist and my husband a bio chemist and miicrobiologist. We have a successful practice and have referrals from doctors at Sloane Kettering because of the excellent results we’ve obtained with terminal patients. I suggest you go back and hit the books
Justine
So glad your program helps people. Please don’t try to tell me how to eat, however, or to “hit the books”—your success does not entitle you to insult me or assume you know anything about me and how I eat.
Keep helping folks, that’s where it’s at. Kindness helps, while you’re at it….
Katie
I’m not seeing very good sources noted at the end of this article to uphold the thinking that greens are bad for you. I’m beginning to think that the person writing the above article has an adversion to greens and this lets this person off the hook of having to eat them as part of a balanced diet. I remember when I was quite young, my older sister piled her portion of spinach on my dinner plate when my parents weren’t looking because she hated greens, too. I never knew eating/drinking greens was a fad. I grew up being told to eat my greens.
If you want to state something as redicidulous as don’t drink green smoothies because they are bad for you, you better make sure you post better resources to back it up.
Rashelle
I agree!!! I want to see more than one very questionable source!!
arista
So now it’s bad to eat spinach? Good Lord what next.
jess
That is ridiculous to say that you shouldn’t eat green vegetables which are packed with healthy vitamins and minerals and to cook them ‘thoroughly’ would destroy any nutrition in them.
EVERYTHING IN MODERATION
Monica Taylor
I tried reading this again to see if I misunderstood the first time. Are we saying that because oxalates effect 20% of the population, that the other 80% shouldn’t eat high oxalate foods? To me it seems as if that’s the same as saying since some people are gluten sensitive that everyone should give up wheat. I honestly think this message could have been given in the light that you should *check* to see if oxalates may negatively affect you. Similar to how World’s Healthiest Foods (whfoods.com) does. They always present balanced information.
And I feel like people on both sides of this argument have valid points, and there are also irrational arguments on both sides. There are cultures that eat only vegetables and there are cultures that eat only animal products, literally. There are healthy people from each side too. I think it’s time to step back before we demonize food and understand the actual source of where we get our information to make informed decisions.
Allie
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48
More info in greens and oxalates.
Turk
I think the use of One referance to support your information on not using green smoothies shows the little research that you have undertaken on the subject.
Tracey
This essay outrages me! Green smoothies are not the problem. Anyone who enjoys them daily should know to rotate the greens, absolutely; to say to skip them entirely and instead enjoy greens overcooked and with butter is just- well it’s exactly what’s wrong with diet and nutrition in the US. It sickens me that you don’t reference any of your research so that your readers can see for themselves that they are an amazing addition to a healthy diet especially for those who don’t generally eat enough vegetables, fruits and greens!
Mark Timon, M.S. Clinical Nutrition
Sigh. A little information can be dangerous. Sarah’s article bashing green drinks is entirely too alarmist to be taken seriously. Although oxalic acid in spinach and other greens may be dangerous if consumed in excess in an unbalanced diet, the piddling amount that may be present in a scoop of green powder will carry no danger in its own right. Even if added to a vegetarian diet loaded with green foods, the tiny amount contributed by a daily serving of a green food supplement would not prove to be the tipping point condemning one to fibromyalgia, kidney stones or shredded cardiac tissue.
I consider such reporting as self serving and manipulative. Rather than luring readers to your website with frightening and bogus expose’s, please build your reputation by offering sound education people can trust. Fact check you articles. For example, did you analyze a large number of green drink supplements on the market to determine the actual amounts of oxalic acid in them? Were some high, and some low? Did you compare those values against established safe levels of daily oxalic acid intake? Did you evaluate the oxalic acid contents of green supplements against other ingredients in the formulas that may be able to neutralize the oxalic acid? Did you have any hard data at all upon which to base your scathing remarks?
Had you conducted a thorough analysis of the topic of oxalates in green food supplements, you may have found instead a further reason to endorse them as healthful dietary supplements.
Antoinette
I was vegan for 2 years. I did green smoothies daily. I weighed the least I had ever weighed up to that point. I felt thin and “clear”. However I couldn’t work out hard without blacking out, I had chronic bladder and yeast infections. The thing that finally made me think I hadn’t found the perfect diet was I lost a baby. I had a partial molar pregnancy. It’s usually caused by a severe lack of vitamin a. Common among vegans. I started eating traditional foods like this blog encourages. I am happy to say I got pregnant again. Ate lots of meat, good fats like butter, raw milk and cooked veggies and gave birth to a perfect healthy 8lb 11oz baby boy. My opinion now is that veganism is not the way to a long healthy life!! Grassed beef! Bacon!!
Nancy
I have to play devil’s advocate here. The article to me at least, is alarmist. As the writer suggests, the green smoothie is a fad. In light of that information, how could one relate this ‘fad’ to a golf ball sized kidney stone in a mummy?? If autism is linked to oxalate issues, then how does a toddler who has had little to no exposure to oxalates develop them. I can understand how conditions can be exacerbated by over consumption of certain foods for sure, but throwing green foods under the bus as possible causes of IBS, burning mouth syndrome, etc. is kind of nuts. I have IBS, and at the time I was diagnosed I had never eaten oxalate foods. My daughter has burning mouth syndrome, and when she developed it at a young age, had always avoided green vegetables and other be foods linked to high oxalates. Maybe the author should warn Dr. Oz, who also consumes green drinks. I have been in the health food field for 25 years, and I have long grown weary of unbalanced, alarmist articles that thrown any particular food group under the banner of all encompassing disease causing enemies or conversely, the opposite, calling one particular food group or eating regimen the saviour of mankind if one follows it. Come on, how about some balanced reasoning here! Just because someone can write a seemingly articulate passage doesn’t mean they should be published. Did you know, 100% of people exposed to water will die ….
Sky Bray
Sorry but this is ridiculous. I’ve been eating raw leafy greens my whole life actually, and it’s common knowledge that veggies are good for you. The American diet has far too much meat and processed food and not enough veggies and raw, alive food. I’m a new follower to your blog and I think you have some interesting info on here – but I really think you are doing a dis-service with this article to your readers, and that you need to do more research. With the issues of obesity the North American ppl are having in the modern age, and considering that you do TV spots and have a moderate amount of spot-light, I really think you have a responsibility to do your due diligence when giving out advice. This article gives no scientific back-up, and only one source.
Here is a rebuttal to your article that all should read
http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green-smoothies/why-green-smoothies-will-not-devastate-your-health/
Rashelle
GREAT rebuttal!! He has many many sources and I knew I liked what I was reading because he is about moderation of all things! This is a must read. This man is well researched and not only gives is opinions but supplies you with how to research what he says.
And as always people should never just read 1 person’s opinion. RESEARCH!! It will save you from blinding following an opinion. Anything extremely one sided is bogus. The truth usually lies in the middle of all those sides.
ruth wilkerson
if i could add one more piece of constructive criticism. a lot of commenters are saying things like ”oh good i don’t have to eat greens anymore” and when i was finished with the article i took away from it that you don’t eat greens unless cooked with butter. what about romaine lettuce and so many other greens? i just think you need to be a little more specific and provide other alternatives for those that don’t follow a healthy lifestyle at all. i came across this blog from a friend on facebook. for all of the ”why are you even here?” comments
carol
There is actually more quality information from many of the comments than there is from this article. God help us all! Someone needs to delete this garbage article. Greens=Life!
blake
The Bible Book of Daniel Chapter 1 verses 11-17 Show clearly that a simple diet of water and vegetables were healthier than all the delicacies of the Babylonian King. For those that believe the Bible it says that men only ate fruit and vegetables up until Noah’s day. After that God specified some meats they could eat. When God took the Jews out of Egypt they lived off manna for 40 year which is described as a bland slightly sweet bread like mushroom that grew in the dew. Clearly a simple organic and balanced diet seems most reasonable. raising Alkaline PH levels slightly makes sense to me. I care for a fish tank and 2 pools the same way. I’ve had a red pealing rash or something on my face that two doctors prescribed cream for that did not work. In 3 to 4 days of doing fruits, vegetables and drinking my water with lemon ,orange and 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda it cleared up.That was not my purpose I was trying to lose weight and came across the internet info on alkaline. I have a feeling there is something remarkable to be discovered in alkaline rich diets whether daily or as a intermittent cleanse.
Denny
This article should be removed. You wont get sick from eating greens. that’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard of.
Heathy man
Ha everything in this article is completely wrong. Learn how to do real science lady…
Peter K
With all respect to the OP your article is merely taking a small percentage issue and blowing it out of proportion. The daily benefits of green drinks for 99% of people far out way the potential risks. Yes there are a small percentage of people who have other issues and large consumption of daily greens could be a problem . I’m sorry but I find you posting an article based on very very little clinical facts as just a way of making yourself sound a little more informed than perhaps you are…curious…what are your credentials?
Deedee
I would say ignorance is bliss, but this is plain, unadulterated stupidly. Really? You should not believe something a quack doctor says, when the majority of the world, including the best in the Medical and nutrition field says the opposite. I can’t ever believe anything you say, so I will not go to this website ever again, until you apologize to your readers for your stupidity
Rayca
Seriously? You’re kidding, right? I’ve never seen the NIH, AMA or ANY heart health organization, all of which tout the consumption of as many greens as you can, come with a warning to beware of oxylate toxicity. You really lost me at painful sex.
Rayca
Still here? Troll blogger.
Dee dee
WTF? Please tell me that I didn’t just waste 5 minutes of my life reading this false, negative crap. I can’t believe that anyone would believe this article, it is all nonsense. Not one of my physicians have ever told me to not eat green leafy veggies . In fact, that is usually the first thing that my doctors say if I am complaining about not losing weight. “up your veggie intake, green leafy vegetables should be the basis of all your salads. Try to eat at least one large salad a day, or more.” this person is just plain idiotic
Mike
This article just makes me laugh. No research sourced at all, and it mentions that majority of kidney stone problems are oxalate related which according to this article is purely green smoothies fault. Hahahah oh please! That would mean majority of people consume green smoothies which is obviously not the case. I don’t know anyone close to me that puts greens in their smoothies except for myself. In fact I hardly know anyone that drinks smoothies unless its from places like Starbucks or McDonald’s! This author needs to stop waisting their time and write more meaningful articles
MazzaC
Brad i was doing high fruit style eating, thats why i loaded on greens. It worked in the beginning but my then my health just went down hill and i put on alot of weight and was feeling hungry all the time. My body seems to be the total opposite of what other people experience. I was sick a few years ago, so my body is hypersensitive. I’ve been studying diet and nutrition for a long time and have come to the conclusion that i’am meant to eat what my ancestors ate. My body is doing well this way and im losing weight. On the previous diet i had jelly like fat. My fat mass on my stomach was bad and the massage therapist said to me it was unusual. I also suffered hypoglycemia. I guess some diet lifestyles work for some and others dont.
Anna Pruss
NO where do I see your credentials as a nutritionist, scientist or doctor. This is the problem with so many bloggers. Writing as if they are experts. Please further educate yourself dear reader.
Samantha
What a load of crap. Maybe we should go back to processed foods, wine and meat. Wake up!!
MazzaC
Sarah thankyou so much for posting this article. If you had not posted this article i would not have known the destructive path i have taken. I was eating greens everyday and having green smoothies and eating salads and juices with greens everyday thinking it was so healthy. I always thought greens were the fountain of youth. My health started to deteriorate and i was suffering chronic fatigue. The fatigue got worser everytime i ate salad believe it or not. My reproductive system(ovaries) had shooting pains go up to my ribs, sex was painful. I put up with it not knowing my problem was too many greens and naively thinking it will keep me young. Actually my skin prematurely started ageing after a couple of years of greens. I was buying organic greens and had allsorts of ideas that the tiredness was from chemicals in environment.
Please keep doing the work that your are doing informing people that these diets long term are causing damage.
Brad
Mazza C, Did you little to no fruit?
Brad
Mazza C, Did you eat* little to no fruit?
Carlalynn Likich
MazzaC – as a high-raw but still some cooked and even occasional meat-eating health-searching fellow being, may I suggest that greens in and of themselves do not usually or necessarily cause the problems that you list above? You don’t mention the rest of your diet, although I’ll assume that you attempted to balance it: if not, then please don’t blame the greens – if so, then I’ll speak from my own experience and say that it seems obvious that there are now and possibly were underlying health issues. I’m currently of the mind that we will each always be searching for our own particular combination of a balanced diet, and that it will probably also evolve and change as we go through life, as very little ever really stays the same. That said, I know it can be disappointing to do what we think is best and have it ‘go south’ so drastically, but can I encourage you to continue working toward a lifestyle of moderation and that word balance again, including having a good amount of leafy greens? We each need to keep searching for what works for us…I hope you find some healthy answers soon!
Marie Scott
I would feel that this article might be reputable if it had more than one source. When writing an article about anything you should know to do your research and find the whole story. He Internet is full of people like you giving half the information. Next time do research in order to save yourself from looking ignorant. Green smoothies are extremely high in nutrients that many people are not able to get. They are one way to ensure that your bodies receives at least some of the fruits and vegetables it requires in a day.
Mary Houston-Harvey
I cured my stage 4 Non Hodgkins Lymphoma with green smoothies…The Dr. I worked with has cured many cases of advanced cancer and other diseases…Oxalates only effect you if the vegetable is cooked or steamed. Raw greens do not cause inflammation in the body. This information you posted is totally incorrect.
Libby
Mary,
Are green smoothies the only thing you did to heal? Did you not change anything else in your diet or lifestyle? Or add supplements?
Mary Houston-Harvey
Hi, Yes, I eliminated all sugars, including fruit. (cancer loves sugar no matter where it comes from). I eliminated meat and eventually fish. I went totally raw and twenty years later I am mostly raw and love it….I am now 67…Still run, do Yoga and when stopped by a Police Officer the other day for driving too fast , he couldn’t believe my age on my license and said he could’t believe I was even 50. I did also use supplements…anti fungals, sulphur based amino acids, and C, E. and a good natural multi…But the leading factor was green, green , green….The closest thing to human blood on the planet is the blood of plants…chlorophyl . Chlorophyl builds tissue, muscle and bone and rises the ph of the blood and tissue. I also meditate daily…You can read about me in the Book “Choose to Live”…Not about me but about a couple that worked with me and my husband and cured their own cancer…We must take control of our own health. We care the most about ourselves…Study study study…The person who wrote this article doesn’t know a thing about nutrition…She has been indoctrinated by Big Brother Pharma.
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dani
Ugh the privilege in this post
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Leanne from AUS
As always Sarah, you have provided another informative and useful article. Unfortunately, there are a considerable number of emotive, stressed-out naysayers posts that I have to wade through and as usual don’t really add anything useful. As stated, this is a WAP friendly site for WAP supporters. Peer reviewed articles are not all-seeing, all-knowing truth, especially those ones stating the efficacy and safety of big pharma. If visitors to this blog wanted the mainstream version, and whatever PubMed says they wouldn’t be here, right? Thanks again and keep up the good work.
carolina
Hey SARAH, I also agree with you that Green vegetables smoothies are really helpful for our good health, and my favorite smoothies is mango smoothies. I must say this will make lots of people to think about smoothies consumption. Very good work by you SARAH.
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Keith
I see some people stating they are now confused as to what they should eat. That somehow the article is stating that eating vegetables is now bad. The moral of this article is moderation. If you consume too much of anything is bad. What is that you say? You can eat as many vegetables as you like? Perhaps, if you are actually eating them. Your stomach would tell you to stop at some point due to the volume of food in your stomach. If you concentrate a pound(s) of food into juice form, you are obviously taking in more minerals than your body can handle. Please keep in mind this article is about over doing it with this new “health fad” and nothing more. Like I said if you consume too much of anything it will be bad for you. If you drink too much water, you can dilute the sodium content in your body to the point where it can be fatal. And that is WATER! The one thing we need more than any food, can also have ill effects if over done. (yes that is true, google it)
Peter K
Do you have any concept of how much water you would need to consume to make your statement evenly close to true..your as badly informed as the OP. you read one fact on google and now use it as a fact for not eating too may vegetables?, wow hahahaha
Bri-Tri
Don’t forget to read the disclaimer page( http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/sarah/disclaimer/) from this site before you go skipping the green smoothie. As with anything, moderation is the key.
Janaki
Hello fellow seekers of health! I have a suggestion. Take a deep breath, exhale, and consider how blessed you are to have this dietary concern. So many people around the world don’t have enough to eat. And so many people around the world don’t have the choices we have. Thousands of children in this country have never even seen a collard green or tasted a fresh raspberry. Enjoy your food and beware dietary fanaticism.
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that one
I believe in moderation in everything but this article has me raising an eyebrow. I came from a small island where fruits, vegetable and meat are basically the breakdown of every meal and many of my elders lived long lives with very few of the symptoms you mentioned. I’ve also been raised on dark green vegetables and fruits and i only starting to experience health issues when i moved to the U.S and my diet changed to SAD. i think reactions to oxalates will probably be determined by genetics and sensitivity, so in a way the author isn’t too off mark. i do drink green smoothies (8 ounces 4 – 5 times a week made of kale, strawberries, and mangoes). but in moderation. if i miss a day or two its not the end of the world.
Cardiologist disapproves of this article
Allie,
There is ample research on the benefits of pradaxa over warfarin (I suggest you use “uptodate.com” for the ample literature on this topic). This is not to say that pradaxa does not have it’s own side effects (I never said pradaxa was “safe”- I said it was “safer” than warfarin). I am sorry that you have had issues with the drug, but the fact is that the drug is far less likely to lead to hemorrhagic stroke than warfarin. You have to weigh the benefits and risks of any drug you take- i.e., I would much rather take a drug that I believe causes me to be dizzy than to take a drug that puts me at high risk for hemorrhagic stroke and it’s sequelae- coma, death, paraplegia.
Let’s not get too far off topic though. This article is about the harmful effects of green smoothies. My post was primarily meant to point out that I believe green vegetables of any sort to be healthy. By searching google, you can find people posting about the harmful effects of literally any food out there. I just think it’s a little ridiculous and hope that people don’t actually give up greens because of stuff like this. I will refrain from further posts as I feel there is no persuading anyone otherwise on this forum.
Allie
cardiologist,
“Now, the Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting that Pradaxa led all other medications in 2011 for number of deaths reported to the FDA. In an article published June 6, 2012, the paper cites a report from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices’ QuarterWatch program, which tracks reports to the FDA’s MedWatch.
The Inquirer noted that Pradaxa exceeded all other medications in the categories of total adverse reports (3,781), deaths (542), hemorrhage (2,367), acute renal failure (291), and stroke (644). In contrast, there were only 731 reports of hemorrhage and 72 deaths associated with Coumadin.” PRWeb
Maybe Pradaxa is less dangerous, rather than safer.
“I would much rather take a drug that I believe causes me to be dizzy than to take a drug that puts me at high risk for hemorrhagic stroke and it’s sequelae- coma, death, paraplegia.”
Again, this response is the typical answer I was told by the nurse who lied to me. Please, for the sake of your patients, don’t respond to them in this way, it’s condescending.
“dizzy” – I could not function during the day. I could not work and was told I had to take 150 mg. morning and evening, when being at just about zero risk for stroke. 150 mg. at night would suffice considering the blood thinning effects lasted in the body for 85 hours.
“high risk” – Again, CHAD score, 0. Afib lasted under 36 hours. virtually, no risk.
Here are some “safe and safer” alternatives that several afibbers are running to, due to the danger of the blood thinning drugs.
Butcher’s Broom, Horse Chestnut and Ginger Root act as blood thinners, while Rutin (from buckwheat) keeps platelets from sticking together and forming clots.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/substance/nattokinase
http://www.ctds.info/natthinners.html
As far as green smoothies – they are not for every person who may have issues with oxalates or people who need less vitamin K. I took this post to be a wake up call to those who may be having this problem, nothing more.
Those spouting moderation – what is moderation? every other day? once a week? once a month? bi-monthly?
BTW- I do eat greens, as do most who follow this blog.
Cardiologist disapproves of this article
This article is absolutely nuts. I am a cardiologist and do transesophageal echos and all sorts of other imaging to look at people’s hearts in detail each and every day. I have NEVER seen someone with “oxalate shards lodged in their heart,” as the author references to in this article. Where are you getting this information? I absolutely agree that oxalate stones may be an issue with high oxalate foods, but kidney stones are VERY rarely life threatening and can be managed and eliminated through a multitude of ways. You’re telling people to eliminate spinach- one of the most nutritious and best foods available for reducing the risk of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, inflammatory diseases, and on and on and on, so that they simply may avoid getting a little kidney stone? I say, bring on the kidney stones. Next fact, it’s spelled lichen sclerosis, not “litchen sclerosis.” I know this is subtle, but it’s just further damaging your credibility. And lichen sclerosis is almost always caused by either autoimmunity or infection in perimenapausal women (definitely not oxalate). Lastly, yes, green vegetables are high in vitamin K and subsequently may reverse the effects of coumadin (warfarin), since warfarin is a vitamin K antagonist. But, we monitor PT/INR in patients on coumadin and attempt to keep it between 2 and 3. Eating leafy greens will simply lower your INR and potentially create the need to increase your dosage of warfarin. Yes, warfarin is a dangerous drug and I see elderly people all the time falling and hitting their head and having hemorrhagic strokes because they’re on warfarin, but the fact is that the dosage of warfarin is not what causes this- it’s the patient’s INR. The lower the INR, the lower the risk of hemorrhage and the higher the risk of ischemic stroke if a patient with atrial fib were to throw an emoblism. And besides, how many people here are actually on warfarin? In the next 5-10 years, we’re going to be using other, safer drugs to manage anticoagulation (like pradaxa) that aren’t affected by vitamin K rich foods sources anyway.
Sorry for the rant, but I cannot stand for an obviously uninformed person counseling people to not eat spinach and other green vegetables that are “high in oxalate.” If everyone ate plenty of green vegetables each and every day, it would likely put me out of business. And I’m ok with that if it means even a few lives saved and their quality of life improved. Please pay no attention to this article.
Allie
Pradaxa a safer drug? I think not. It caused severe dizziness in me when I had to take it for an episode of atrial fib brought on by the vagus nerve being assaulted from severe vomiting due to food poisoning. I was told by the doctor the dizziness was not caused by the Pradaxa. Funny how I would get dizzy about 20 minutes after I took it and the dizziness went away when I took myself off of the drug. All I wanted to do was take it at night while I slept so that the side effect would not keep me from being functional during waking hours. The nurse lied to me saying that the effects of the drug stayed in the body for 12hours and I needed to take it morning and evening. I called the pharmacist and asked how long 150 mg. lasted in the body and he told me 85 hours. She worked me over telling me I was putting myself and family at risk for a stroke and would change their lives forever and was being incredible selfish in not taking the full dosage day and night. Many lies, fear mongering for me to submit and take the drug that I knew was causing me problems. My CHAD score is 0, of course, I had to research this fact for myself.
My gut has not been the same since the little time I was on Pradaxa. This has been well over a year and I’m still trying to restore my gut, which by the way could not handle (digest) raw veggies, so steaming them is the only way I could eat them until my gut is healed.
Depending on the study, there has been up to 500 deaths in the first year alone for users of pradaxa. Since you a the cardiologist, I’ll let you digg to find the “outside the big pharma box” info for yourself. It is a 1-800- BAD-DRUG.
So, for me this post about oxalates found in greens and the possibility of the overuse of green smoothies “may” be harmful for “some” people is benign to the claims you make.
Coumadin is bad. Pradaxa is bad. “coumadin nurses” have to monitor people because these drugs are so harmful to the human body.
With all due respect, for the benefit of your patients, think/research/practice outside the box and speak truth about the drugs you prescribe on a daily basis. Give the facts and let the patient make their own decision based on those facts. Pradaxa is not safe.
Herbal Weight Loss Tea by Chaoji
i dont know much about this stuff but i have read many artilces about health stuff and saw many videos or programs but still i only drink Green tea and it works and i think this is the best drink for health. and i also suggest you to drink green tea, do excercise, walking. you can see the difference quickly. your article is nice and it really helps people to think why are they doing.
thanks
Alan Green
Bookwyrmb
@Beautifully human: I am pretty sure that modern man did not invent red meat. I believe the same Creator who put the grass and trees on earth put the animals there, too, and mankind has neen eating them for millennia. God did not, however endow us with blenders an juicers with which to drastically alter the structure of and availability of the elements of a leaf.
William
And after a lifetime of eating the modern, highly processed diet, and sedentary lifestyle, that person’s organs are no longer highly functioning where absorbing the nutrients of “all the right foods” is very poor. Doing this to at least get out of a sickened state has benefits that outweigh the “risk” by a landslide. No one is saying “have smoothies for life”.
They are saying having these vegetables in this manner have made life flipping differences to people who were already up a creek, stranded by doctors and all of the other fickle flip-flop health advice out there.
Angiebelle
Sarah, I think that you should delete this article. The lack of scientific studies behind it is alarming. Right or wrong, what you are saying is unsupported. As the first article that comes up on Google, you are influencing people – and influencing their health. Something so precious should not be treated lightly. People deserve evidence, not generalisations. Then they can make their own judgments.
beautifully human
who came up with vegetables can devastate our health its funny my Doctor tell me to add them all the time how can the things GOD put here for us Devastate our health I would think Sugar, Redmeat and GMO would Devastate our health not Veggies
Kelly
Ashlee,
How old are you? I’m guessing 20-24 or so? Where’s the “research” that “shows over and over” that eating greens is GREAT for you? WHERE? Please post some references.
Replying to the blog’s author: The “Trying Low Oxalate” yahoo group is actually pretty sad. The same people on it for years, with worsening food ‘allergies’ and no real guidance, not many stories of improvement.
Of course it’s better than the counterpart — the “Vitamin K2” yahoo group, which basically is defunct.
sophia
It’s great that the author provided information but I’d like to believe that people who drink green smoothies also eat other foods, whether they are vegetarian or omnivorous. And how much green drink are they really taking in? I’m sure they’re not drinking gallons of it on a daily basis. Anyway, I think this is one of those articles I will take with a grain of salt.
Ashlee
I don’t think people should buy into this. It’s hilarious to think that eating greens will cause health problems. Crazy, in fact. bahaha! That’s what your body needs….research shows over and over again that eating greens is GREAT for you and actually fights off disease. Keep eating your greens people. It’s what your body wants and needs!
nicole
this may probably be the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard. wow
jessica
oh ok let me cook all the nutrients out of my food, then add butter to boot! sounds alot healthier than some raw fruits and veggies after a long workout….how could i have been so blind?
arkham asylum museum riddler trophies
Good site you have here.. It’s hard to find quality writing like yours these days. I truly appreciate people like you! Take care!!
Heather Sotnick
I have never commented on any blog, but this one really grabbed me. My family and I have been drinking green smoothies for 8 years and hearing it called a fad is kind of crazy. I also consume large salads on a daily basis.
I have 50% kidney function (from a birth defect) and have never had any issues with the very large quantities of greens I consume. I do however feel pressure and flank pain when I consume animal protein (organic chicken, or fish). My greens work wonders for me!
On the other side, I have three children and two of them (8 and 11) love green smoothies and do very well with them and ask for one almost daily. My 16 year old however, has never really enjoyed them, nor does she like most salads. She does not feel well after having green smoothies. Every BODY is different. I do appreciate the information Sarah is sharing. I think everyone needs to tune in and listen to their own body.
Leesa
This article is all opinion and almost none of it stacks up to reflect the truth at all. For goodness sake, you’re telling people to limit their greens. Yes there is a proportion of people who are sensitive to oxalic acid in large quantities and it is certainly not 20%.
What you fail to mention is that oxalic acid is formed in EVERY human body as part of normal daily function. Geez, did you mention that taking ascorbic acid can cause the body to create oxalic acid?
What about warning your readers to stop eating peanut butter, or drinking chocolate milk, eating chocolate, fig newtons, cinnamon buns, tomato soup, graham crackers and coffee? All of those have high oxalic acid amounts.
Where did you get your “1 in 5 people” are prone to these problems? If that were the case, there would be warnings on all the foods I mentioned. But no, that is not the case.
Warning people not to drink green smoothies is ridiculous. The smart thing to do would be to let people know that, like anything, variety of good quality fresh (organic) produce is key. Don’t get stuck on 1 or 2 types of greens or vegetable, moderate your intake of most things and for heaven’s sake don’t believe everything sensationalist thing you read on a single blog.
To be successful in convincing people (such as Carrie) that they are right to avoid something as wholesome and healthy as a smoothie with a couple of handsful of green leafy vegetables is downright irresponsible.
It would definitely be cause for concern if you were warning people not to eat 3 green smoothies per day all made with ounces of spinach, sorrel and flavored with 3 tbsp of cacao. Then you might have something to say.
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Carrie
I am not surprised by this! I have never made a green smoothie in my life because they sounded repulsive to me. Another thumbs up for listening to the body. 😉
Seriously though, I do like some kale or collard greens, well cooked, and dripping with bacon grease! Grandma did it right… with a little dab of Tabasco or vineger splashed on them at the table. WAY more digestible and tasty too.
Sarah
Carrie — I feel sorry for your body. Your poor poor colon.
Monica
I don’t know…I’m going to have to do more research on this. Definitely not convinced, especially if there is only one source listed. I try to eat 2 cups of spinach daily (never tried it in a smoothie, usually raw or sauteed). I find it odd that spinach is touted as being one of the best “power foods” rich in almost everything, yet it’s dangerous for my health.
I liked a previous comment that if we don’t have any bad symptoms, this probably doesn’t apply to us.
Aye aye aye, it makes me wonder what people even eat anymore since almost every food is of someone’s health concern!
Kevin
Stop the madness. This is titled to provoke commentary and each comment
moves the blog higher to the top of a search. Now it’s like 3rd or 4th if you search for green smoothies. Green smoothies is not on any list as the number 1 killer. Diabetes, heart disease and cancer are real problems. Obesity hello. Just use logic and reason when consuming to much of anything (including loaded blogs) but certainly eat more veggies then carbs and meat. Sally I totally respect you as a viral marketing person. I will use the same tactics clearly it works. It has been working since Punch and Judy. Hats off to you and your talent. Cheers. This is a tasty green smoothie right here oh no wait.. maybe a cup of butter and some beef broth so my vagina doesn’t hurt during sex or I could have candida better wait to drink that smoothie.. Green smoothies are great and I like them when I forget my salad or just am not in the mood to eat one.
Yogi
Bravo on recognizing some of the suttle/covert reasons for why this bog post was written.
Yes I agree it is one-sided / misleading info. I have done my research on Green Smoothies, so should everyone, (instead of blindly following one source).
Green Smoothies are great and rotating the greens is one form of addressing the oxalate issue. The benefits outweigh the risks.
For every type of food there are some groups who are at risk. That doesn’t mean that it is bad for everyone who consumes it responsibly. Aside from that, personal experience tells me it is good for me, but I cannot speak for everyone because every health history is different,
One of the largest bodies of research into vegetarian diet in general is Dr. Campbell’s “The China Study” which conclusively proves the overwhelming benefits of a vegetarian diet.
Tashia
With all due repsect, WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! Eat your greens with butter?? Skip green smoothies altogether? Um please don’t listen to this guys!
Ebony
RIIIIGHT! Cook the nasty LIFE right on out of your spinach and then… SLAP SOME BUTTER ON IT!!! Now THAT… is a solution… especially if you don’t suffer from such rare dis-ease! It’s one thing to make a decision for ones self but to try to re-color and SELL your beliefs to others via catchy titling and scare tactics… a bit much don’t you think???
Aaron
Why is it you can smoke a pack of cigarettes a day and no one says a damn word but whatever you do don’t eat a lot of fruits and vegetables! That’s unhealthy, give me, a freakin, break.
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AGP
Is this some kind of disinformation website to confuse people? I don’t care what someone’s credentials or education is. You teach people crap – like the schools do nowadays – and give them a degree and they think they know something and pass the lies on to others, and gullible people believe this stuff.
We need enzymes and enzymes come from raw fruit and vegetables. Also, do some research on dairy and meat, they have been linked to cancer and so many other diseases. Why do you think that holistic cure for cancer to be a vegan and eat a lot of raw fruit and veggies.
Pam
The main point of this article makes NO sense. Most people are not drinking green smoothies even once per day. Americans do not eat enough fruits & veggies. Green smoothies help them eat more. Unless you are drinking more than 5 or 6 green smoothies a week, there should be no reason to worry. Everything in moderation!
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garan
The information in this article is based on very bias opinion.
Gsnydes
This article seems just mainly speculation and opinion/editiorial, given no worthy references or citing. Oxalates are one of the major contributors to kidney stones, however, there is no direct correlation in the literature to green leafy diets and formation of kidney stones. Since the rise of the ‘kale shake’ fad, wouldn’t there a direct correlation to a rise in reported stones?
That does not seem to be the case, going off of recent peer-reviewed medical journals.
Martha in Oregon
This web site is a great example of one of my pet peeves — people who assume that what is good (or bad) for them is good (or bad) for everybody. The author carefully explained about oxalates and how they can contribute to some diseases and how green smoothies should not be had every day (i.e. they should be used only in moderation and not by people troubled by oxalates). Then many of the comments jumped to conclusions, attributing their own person good health (or bad health) to green smoothies or the lack of them or high oxalate vegetables or the lack of them. Whoo boy! I was researching on behalf of my boyfriend who has had kidney stones and loves cooked green vegetables and especially spinach and eats a lot of them when he gets a chance. He’s not a smoothie kind of guy. So, from the original post I conclude that he should be moderate in his eating of spinach. Thank you — I appreciate the information.
Clancy Cash Harrison MS, RD, LDN
According to USDA and Harvard, Kale is VERY LOW in oxalate acid. For 1/2 cup raw kale it has only 2 mg compared to a 1/2 cup raw spinach which is about 650 mg. Please do not lump kale in with the other greens. Collard greens are slightly higher than Kale with a very low amount of 4 mg/half cup raw. There are exceptions that are well documented.
Thanks
Clancy Cash Harrison MS, RD, LDN
Registered Dietitian and Professor
Rhea
In my opinion this is a very extreme position based on very little evidence. Here is a more balanced approach:
http://vegetarian.lovetoknow.com/Green_Smoothie_Oxalate
Jamez
Thanks, this pretty much says it all from someone who has been through it, and totally debunks the article first hand!
Alan
Great rebuttal to this article:
http://blog.greensmoothiegirl.com/2012/06/01/can-green-smoothies-devastate-your-health
Allie
Alan – that was posted in June by someone else, maybe by Robin herself, this is September, most of us have moved on.
Nothing new under the sun.
Sarah – how does one get off the merry go round? Pls close comments, same comments over and over. Thx.
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MARK
YOU ADVISE ME TO EAT THE DANGEROUS “GREEN MONSTER” IN SALAD ETC. DO THE INGREDIENTS CHANGE WHEN I PUT IT IN A SMOOTHIE? SOUNDS MORONIC TO ME !!! I AGREE WITH SOME OF THE OTHER COMMENTS ABOVE, PLEASE USE REAL SCIENCE !!!
Dan
Wow what a terrible advice. Please stop writing.
Phyllis
Oh, I understand…
Phyllis
I’m cool with keeping it open for comments as everyone has a right to their opinion, whether I agree or not. But, to each their own.
Allie
My request has nothing to do with people voicing their opinions, we’ve read them all…over and over and over, since “fly by” late to the party commenters keep repeating the same thing over and over and over with no knowledge of previous posts.
The “horse” died in late June. Time to move on.
Or at least, how do I get off the carousel?
Allie
Sarah –
Any chance of closing down the comments for this post…it would be a blessing for most of us.
Thanks.
Phyllis
I do not agree with this article either. Two years ago, I began drinking green smoothies after heart surgery and it was the best decision I made. I’m really tired of authors or articles trying to put the fear of God in everything I do. This article just takes the cake! Don’t consume green smoothies? Don’t eat your normal intake of fruits and vegetables as required by national health standards? Geez. How about giving credit to those us that find sometime in our daily busy CRAZY lives to inject some healthy habits that will sustain for long terms. Green smoothies are practical and quick. They are a VERY easy way to get our daily intake of fruits and veggies. I’ve even starting having my kids drink these. Much simpler to do this than having them not eat their veggies at dinner. I’m so over these articles. I recommend anyone who reads this article to do your own EXTENSIVE research into the health benefits of green smoothies. I’m sure any of these benefits far outweigh some negligible risks.
Rebecca
Hi. Sometimes I save the water from cooking veges and use it to water my plants. I wonder if watering my garden plants with this liquid is a mistake? Thanks!
abby
bottom line is this article is completely unfounded. She has absolutely NO weight to this argument in terms of greens being the actual cause of kidney stones. These kind of articles are the exact reason people get so worried about what they should and shouldn’t be eating – for the wrong reasons. In addition there are no referenced peer-reviewed scientific journals or articles to back up her argument. Wake up people! this is the problem you get in todays society when you have the internet – you can literally post anything you want and people will believe you and follow it. Sarah has no scientific education behind her, especially in nutrition, which is obvious. Sifting through the mountain of inaccurate and unfounded health information is what confuses people. Seriously if you want health advice search peer-reviewed journals on whichever topic, or go and see a dietitian.
Phyllis
Right on, Abby!
Andrew
That is a bunch of horse ****. Cook green vegetables with butter? are you kidding. Let me guess a fat person wrote this article. You don’t get kidney stones from eating green vegetables. Just ask all the athletes, centenarians, and fitness experts and they will tell you green vegetables are vital for health in fact 2-4 servings of them a day should be consumed. Trying to avoid kidney stones? Watch the soy, coffee and tea, and liquors. The only way green smoothies can adversely affect your health is if that’s all you consume. Too many idiots drink nothing but smoothies and yes that will harm you but a a smoothie a day with a well balanced diet of whole foods and plenty of water consumption you will be fine. They are really meant for a nutritious supplement to a diet, not a meal in itself. The author should’ve mentioned that part.
Gina
I don’t agree with all her advice, but if you look at her videos, you would see she’s not fat.
Karla
This article is only going to keep unhealthy and misinformed people from eating greens – what a huge mistake!!!!
The author is making a big scare about a rare illness. The way she is attacking a healthy habit just gave me a glimps of her “intelligence.”
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lynn syme
Seriously…Sarah, you talk of fad diets and smoothies yet promote fads at the same time. So greens are not that healthy for you and nor is a variety of nuts. So we take out a multitude of vitamins and proteins and replace them with what exactly? Isnt it time for people to listen to their bodies and not other people’s views? Why have we lost our ability to read our own bodies and feed them according to our needs. Im talking in a sensible way now. What works for Joe does not mean it will work for June. We see this in allergies. We are all individual with individualising requirements. So perhaps it is best to tell your readers to maintain the “at ease” stance and listen to what their bodies are telling them without punting a particular horror story ladened with all possible side-effects if they choose to go the way their body is telling them. It’s ludicrous. It’s even more ludicrous that people can be so gullible by reading this jargon and then changing their diets to suit what you suggest. I’m astounded by the scaremongering and how readers are falling into the trap of believing such nonsensical rubbish. Hunters and gatherers must have had an awful time when foraging for their food and wondering if oxalates or kidney stones where going to send shards through their hearts and make their kidneys shut down. All the women must have been skating on their behinds with such serious itching back in their day. Lordy, it must have been total mayhem out their without reading material as to what berries, nuts and greens could be eaten and then battling to join the dots as to why they were not fit enough to hunt a Wooly Mammoth with a spear because of a serious itch caused by a leafy veggie because it was not cooked in butter. How silly.
alyssa
Amen to that.
The most nutrient dense foods is natural food (in particular dark leafy greens and nuts), but apparently these are bad for us so they must be replaced by over-processed foods that lack in nutrients so that we must then take supplements in order to get essential vitamins and amino acids. We have almost come full circle, get back to nature, eat simple, that’s all there is to it.
Side note: butter is laden with cholesterol and animal fats that clog up arteries and is also high in calories and cooking food strips it of its enzymes, so, all in all, bad suggestion.
For a so called “healthy” home economist, you don’t really know a lot about health or being healthy, I suppose you think all vegetarians and vegans are anemic and that people should drink a glass of milk with every meal, eggs and bacon at breakfast and a big steak for dinner, so about right?
Linda
Oh my gosh you are beginning to see the light! Beginning I say! With your last sentence! Whoooooooo!
Allie
Alyssa & LS –
you make many assumptions. study up the healthy home economist, Weston A. Price foundation, the latest studies which confirm the age old truth about saturated fats, clogged arteries and cholesterol. then comment.
a simple difference of opinion and an attitude to agree to disagree is the way to go.
“I’m astounded by the scaremongering and how readers are falling into the trap of believing such nonsensical rubbish.”
you ass-u-me much.
http://www.coconutsecret.com/saturatedfats2.html
Alyssa
Sorry for my opinion, at least I’m not trying to misinform the public.
Phyllis
Definitely entitled to your opinion, Alyssa. And I wholeheartedly agree. The internet has good and bad points. This article is the latter.
Vivek
For the record, a study was published in the New England Journal Of Medicine in 1993 suggesting that high oxalate foods do not cause kidney stones.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199303253281203#t=articleResults
“Oxalate is found in many foods, but the content is typically low36. Ingestion of foods high in oxalate can lead to hyperoxaluria and to the formation of calcium oxalate stones28. Oxalate values are not available for the full range of foods on our questionnaire; thus, total intake could not be calculated. However, our questionnaire included several foods with relatively high oxalate content. When we controlled for potentially confounding variables, the consumption of these foods (chocolate, nuts, tea, and spinach) was not associated with the risk of kidney stones (data not shown).”
I have not been able to find more recent peer-reviewed research that contradicts the above finding. Are there any published studies showing that spinach did in fact cause kidney stones?
Allie
Vivek –
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stonesadults/
http://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/kidneystones.cfm
http://www.livestrong.com/article/485037-can-eating-too-much-spinach-give-you-kidney-stones/
Vivek
Thanks for the references. It seems to me that the recommendations on these sites are not based on peer-reviewed scientific research, but rather on a general concern about foods that have high oxalate content. There is no published research, so far as I know, showing that either:
[A] Spinach increases the risk of kidney stones OR
[B] Cutting spinach out of the diet reduces the risk of kidney stones.
Both A and B above would need to be true for people to benefit from eliminating spinach, and neither has been demonstrated. I also observed that these sites mentioned spinach and Swiss chard, but no other leafy greens, so there’s even less evidence that other greens are harmful in any way. Even in the case of spinach, there’s good reason to believe that its high calcium content neutralizes the potential harm of the oxalate.
In summary, I wouldn’t entirely dismiss the possibility that eating too much spinach too frequently may not be ideal, since every type of vegetable may have some potentially toxic component. In my own green smoothies or salads I strive for variety, rotating among spinach, kale, romaine, arugula, collard greens, or mixed lettuces on different days. Each type of green has a different nutrient profile, so it just makes sense not to stick with only one type. And if there’s any harmful substance in a particular leafy green, the rotation strategy minimizes exposure to it and gives the body more time to eliminate the toxin. In my opinion, the great benefits of dark, leafy greens for health and longevity far outweigh the potential risks, for people who haven’t received specific medical advice to avoid greens (and even that advice is sometimes not based on the best science).
Rusty Shackleford
Moderation is key to moral virtue. I try not to consume anything juiced or blended in an amount that I would not otherwise be comfortable eating raw as-is at any given time. Conversely, the day I see “spinach overdose” as a major contributing factor to any illness is the day I would ask for a second opinion. You can find or create “harmful” compounds in just about anything in your produce aisle. They balance with the good as yin is to yang. For those that haven’t figure it out yet: something at some-point is going to kill you; it probably will not be your smoothie.
Candra
Lj, I agree with you, as I stated on my blog: the key to health is to understand and love your own body. Treat it right. Do some research, make your own decision what is best for your health. I notice after drinking green smoothies for almost a month that I feel calmer, my sweat doesn’t smell & poop doesn’t stink as strong as it used to be.
lj
I don’t even know what to think of this post. NO MATTER what you try to do something comes out about how bad it is for you. Like…what exactly IS supposed to be okay to eat? I personally feel better then I ever have eating high raw which includes green juices and smoothies. My acne cleared up, chronic constipation cured, more energy, need less sleep, skin glows, hair and nails grow faster, no longer need deodorant, severe sinus problems greatly improved, acid reflux cured, poop no longer stinks and the list goes on. If raw greens in high quantity are supposed to be so bad then why so many benefits? Any time I go back to meats, dairy and low produce diets for a brief time problems I’ve had in the past start coming back and I feel heavy and slow and meat…sheesh that crap doesn’t digest till the next day, it’s gross.
I guess all I’m saying is no matter HOW you eat there is someone some where saying how horrible this that or the other is… First dairy is good, now it’s bad, swap with soy milk, now soy milk is bad, swap with almond milk, now almonds are bad… that type of thing. How is anyone supposed to know how they’re supposed to eat? I think I’ll just listen to my body other wise I’ll have to starve myself based on all the ‘latest’ news that comes out LOL
Ian Bates
This is Funny…. Ever since I cut out the arthritis prescriptions and processed food (not all
) I went from Crutches and Slings to a Active Normal life Via the GREEN SMOOTHIES!!
7 Years of Greens and never had any of the symptoms they talk about… Not to mention I havent gotten sick since…
Its All about the Dollar!!! Watch out for People who write this kind of bs!!!
Emma Cage
This is another case of scaremongering and an example of why some people should be allowed information as they turn it on its head and exaggerate everything. What the hell is supposed to be good for you anymore? What could we eat if we read and listened to all the articles about dangerous food? We wouldn’t be allowed to eat anything.
Candra
In response to your article on green smoothies, I wrote a blog on this subject, analyzing the pros and contras of green smoothies diet:
loving-living-in-vienna.blogspot.co.at/2012/07/green-smoothie-alert.html.
Maybe the only safe ‘food’ to eat on this earth is just sunlight ;-)?
A woman features on ‘the Sun Light Eater (Breatharianism)’ claims that she only lives on sunlight and has been doing it for 2 years:
loving-living-in-vienna.blogspot.co.at/2012/06/light-eater-httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvl0u6.html
bluerabbit
I got an oxalate kidney stone after being on the South Beach diet, which recommended the vegetables listed, along with a ton of lean protein. Afterwards, they gave me a list of what to avoid, and all the vegetables in the diet were on it, along with the excess of protein, which also has effects on kidney function. And I’m thinking, no wonder! I agree with those who say it is different for everyone, but I’m telling you, no more veggie omelettes for me, and the prospect of a green smoothie makes me blanch. They did recommend lemon juice in water daily, and I do that–hot in winter, cold in summer. Can’t hurt. Meanwhile, I have returned to smaller portions, less sugar, small amounts of protein, and a balanced consumption of a varied diet, along with filtered water. Knock on wood. So far, I’ve been okay. I still have some weight to lose, but I’m heading in the right direction. (Another thing that worries me about raw fruits and vegetables is bacterial contamination, and that goes for things grown at home, too. Only thing that kills those puppies is heat.)
fucc you
Yeah look out for the oxalates! Don’t eat leafy greens! Be sure to load up on the butter though! Total laughable nonsense and bullshit.
Linda
Someday you all are ‘goint to get it’ and whoa what an eye opening day that will be! A little light bulb will go off and you will say ‘oh my gosh Sarah was actually RIGHT!’ Mmmmm real bacon , real eggs, real butter……ahhhhhhhhhh so good! OHhhh and real honest to goodness milk! If our government doesn’t take it all away first .
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Ashers
I think what it all really comes down to is genetics. If you have Hyperoxaluria or any history of kidney stones then it is possible that by consuming a large amount of oxalate rich foods daily can harm you. Everyone’s bodies are different, due to our genetic makeup certain things that harm one person may not do very much, if any harm to another. Reading through many comments on this issue from people, I have read about people who have been drinking green smoothies for over 5 years and never had any problems and feel great, and others who have had problems with kidney stones and had to lower their oxalate consumption. So based on this I do believe not everything is for everyone.
I drink green smoothies and have never seen anything but positives on this. I do switch up my greens though, I never do just spinach. I’ll do a week on one then I will switch it up with a different green leafy veggie. But I love the dark ones. I have read and experienced too much good to give up dark leafy greens based on any article. I am in tuned with my body and I choose my foods that way. Also no one in my family has ever had issues with kidney stones. I really believe if you have a family history of it, or your body is just more susceptible to it then you are it risk from way more things you ingest and green smoothies are not the only thing that is going to get you.
Different strokes for different folks…eat what does YOUR body good…listen to your body before you listen to any article whether it is for or against…
Glenda Harris
Ok this is the absolute perfect reminder that anyone at all can run out, sign up for a blog account , come up with some catch phrase name like healthy home economist or what have you and start writing articles. That does not mean that you take them for being factual information. I am appalled that you Sarah, would post garbage like this up here. And then to whine publicly that the mean people are saying mean comments, and you felt the need to show your kids (are you trying to guilt-trip us?) is ridiculous and shows your immaturity and lack of professionalism. I ask that people take your entire blog with a grain of salt and read it with the knowledge that you are simply a regular joe who decided to grab a “virtual pen” and start gabbing. Do you know what you are gabbing about? No.
I am certain you have lost some blog followers over this one. Get real woman.
Jazzicall
To all the haters; I have this great recipe for you:
morning, drink 1 pound of rhubarb smoothie
evening, mix 1 pound spinach and swiss chard
ps. don’t add any dairy product to the smoothie, if you must substitute I recommend almonds..
pps. drink these smoothies every day for as long as possible, it’s better than SAD and therefor healthy..
Melleni
This all sounds so silly to me. If you’re getting stones from too many green leafy veggies, you are probably not drinking enough water. Won’t drinking plenty of water flush it out of your body before it forms stones? That’s what I’ve always read about kidney stones.
MJ
Really? Because eating a green smoothie is no different than having a small side salad at lunch…except it’s blended. This article is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.
kenya
how come there wasn’t an argument about: diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, stress, heart disease, arthritis, cancer, smoking, processed food, etc., i mean how bad can blended leafy greens and organic fruit be for you? every time i drink a smoothie vs. a soda or high fructose fruit juice or cookies…………this has to be a government funded sight. i live in a diverse metro area and for the next two blocks: chinese food x 3, burger king, mcdonalds, pizza shop x 2, fried fish stand, dunkin donuts and a rite-aid which has sold out of prescribed high blood pressure medicine twice since ive been on it.
Esther Thaler
all they really need to do is take some calcium citrate and magnesium citrate with each green smoothie–the calcium and magnesium will complex with the oxalates, making them insoluble and unabsorbable, and the citrate will also compete with any left over oxalate for absorption. It is an issue for people with kidney stones, candida overgrowth or chronic fungal infections, and some others–but supplementing calcium and magnesium citrate with green smoothies (and spinach salad, chocolate, or other high oxalate foods will prevent absorption, which is a good thing to do.
Andrea
This article completely disregards the existence of biochemical individuality—the fact that each of us has different requirements for nutrients and TOLERANCE levels for so-called toxins, whether they naturally-existing phyto-chemicals or creations of humanity. Not everyone who eats raw spinach regularly will develop kidney stones. There is something about the way a person susceptible to kidney stones processes oxalates that is different from those who don’t have kidney stones. I know people who don’t even eat oxalate-containing foods (they dislike vegetables), and don’t eat cocoa, who have kidney stones. I have observed that their diets are based on meat and starch and white bread, plus they drink no water. These foods are acid-forming to the body, changing the chemistry and allowing for the deposition of minerals in the kidney in those with genetic predisposing factors.
Oxalates are no more a poison than is corn (organic, non-GMO, that is). It’s the dose, frequency of exposure that increases the chance of ill health from oxalates, paired with your genetics. Obviously, elephants and other large herbivorous mammals have no difficulty with oxalates—their metabolism is designed to handle them without difficulty. I hope this article will not stop readers from eating their greens because they are important sources of nutrients.
Yvette
All of these over the top reactions. Talk to a nephrologist. Get the list of high oxalate foods to avoid or consume in moderation with rotation. I found this info out when my FOUR year old was dealing with the pain of kidney stones that were calcium oxinate deposits.
Thanks to the author for giving information that isn’t mainstream or popular. Wish I had known how much harm I was causing my child when I thought I was promoting his health. Do we avoid all veg? NO! Is this author promoting that? NO.
I think the point is to educate and cause the reader to move forward with info rather than blindly follow a trend that can really damage the health of some people.
Keep calm
And do your research.
Thanks, author, for bringing this up. Glad to see I am not the only one who just didn’t know hidden dangers in these foods.
Coach Chris
What a bunch of bull. Im a seasoned CrossFitter and consume my own organic green smoothies everyday, coupled with grass-fed/free-range/wild everything in the form of the Paleo Diet and Im fitter/healthier/happier than ever. Also you neglected to mention that oxilate deposits form when the overall diet is poor, in combination with a lack of hydration – this article is poorly opinionated.
Nate
Oxalates are going to be present in varying amounts in all greens. They are in there and act kind of like a mild poison, to keep you from eating too much of any one green.
The key is moderation and rotating your greens.
Esthela
That is well put.
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Faythe
Thank you for sharing.
Grace
Show me the science.
Kat
Grace is your comment in response to Esthela’s comment?
Esthela
Space here does not allow for all the data, but you can get the rest of the scientific information on the oxalic acid from Dr. Walker’s book “Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices” pp. 52-57.
Dr Walker became seriously ill and healed himself with raw vegetable and fruit juices. He was a scientist and founder of The Norwalk Laboratory of Nutritional Chemistry and Scientific Research in New York.
Links to articles on the benefits of oxalic acid:
http://health-cancertreatment.blogspot.mx/2008/01/oxalic-acid-cure-for-cancer.html
OXALIC ACID THE CURE FOR CANCER
“Having adequate levels of oxalic acid in your blood eliminates all abnormal cells effectively with no harmful side effects. This is God’s Poison With Purpose. If you seriously look into every alternative cancer cure that shows some success, you will find the foods, herbs, grasses, and teas they suggest all contain high amounts of oxalic acid.”
http://sproutman.com/sproutblog/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Raw_vs_Cooked.pdf
I like Dr. Walker’s scientific research best of all for his common sense.
Grace
Yes, I was referring to the content of the article, not to your comment. Sorry for the confusion. I think this was a very irresponsible article to write without citing evidence whatsoever.
Esthela
There is overwhelming scientific evidence for the benefits of leafy greens, fruits and vegetables if you want to pour your self into all the scientific data. Ronald Ross Watson and Victor R. Preedy have conpiled extensive scientific research data in their book “Bioactive Foods in Promoting Health, Fruits and Vegetables”. The title for chapter 26 is “Spinach and Health: Anticancer Effect” writen by scientists from Japan. This is not fun easy reading, it’s just hard scientific facts. Some of the processes of these leafy greens have been patented like Fenugreek extract to cure asma, inflamation, diabetis. You can go to US patents on line and see this information on fenugreek. The extracts are a concentration of the plant’s healing properties which in most cases are high in oxalic acid.
I am not saying don’t eat your raw, organic butter and your grass fed meat, many have healed and thrived with these foods like Jordan Rubin, but I just want to put emphasis on the fact that we all know these green leafy grasses high on oxalic acid are the ones that give health and nurishment to your meat, milk and butter.
There is much conflicting information and we just need to use some common sense some times. What you do in this blog is good to help sort and evaluate things out. We are all in the search for what is best. I know your intenions are to help. Keep up the good work and may the Creator of the universe bless and guide you in all that you do.
Esthela
Thank you for the awareness on the matter, which is as serious as you discribed it when you eat large amounts of cruciferous greens that have been cooked. I have done some research on raw food and of course the oxalic acid concern always comes up. What I have found out is that oxalic acid is really bad for you if you cook these veggies and eat them in large amounts, but if you eat them raw they are acctually beneficial. The oxalic acid from live raw foods is important for proper paristalic motion and for mineral absortion. The key to balance is to rotate all your raw greens and eat a large varitey of them in thier organic, raw live state. You can find more information in Dr. Waker’s book “Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices”. Dr Walker is considered an authority in juicing. Here are some sections on oxalic acid from his book pp. 56, 57: “Organic oxalic acid is one of the important elements needed to maintain the tone of, and to stimulate peristalsis.” “… the oxalic acid in raw vegetables and their juices is organic and as such is not only beneficial but essential for the physiological functions of the body.” “The oxalic acid itself, when converted into an inorgnic acid by cooking or processing the food, it often resuls in causing inorganic oxalic acid cristals to form in the kidneys. It is worthy to notice that the minerals in our foods — iron, for example — frequently cannot be assimilated and used completely if they have become inorganic through cooking and often prevent the utilization of other elements through chemical and other action.” “It is well to bear in mind, therefore, that as the organic oxalic acid is so vital to our well-being, the fresh-raw juice of the vegetable containing it should be used daily to supplement the eating of these raw vegetables includied in our daily salads.”
Mary
Thank you…exactly correct information…Scientifically based unlike what is in the article which totally confuses people. Thank you
Meghan
Hey Sarah, Last time I checked, cooking veggies in butter is quite counterproductive and a completely ridiculous… Where the heck did you get your information. Hello… Read the China Study, it just might teach you a thing or 2…
Allie
Meghan –
http://www.tendergrassfedmeat.com/2011/06/14/in-defense-of-nutritious-delicious-grassfed-butter/
Peabody
Kat, since I’ve seen you write this a couple of times now, the word is digestive “tract,” not track. And sorry to say this, but since you went there first…Sarah isn’t exactly the picture of health either.
Kat
oops my mistake, I actually did not double check before posting. indeed i am quite aware that its digestive track. But may I ask you? is that the best thing you had to say regarding the post?
And what do you define as healthy? She looks quite healthy to me. She is not puffy, looks like she is at a healthy weight for her body frame,etc…again I am a bit puzzled that all you had to say was in regards with a typo and commented on Sarah’s look?
The reason i mentioned Victoria was because she admitted it herself but also because she actually is the one who goes on about how people should be drinking green smoothies…This fact actually has a lot of raw vegan (big on greens) quite puzzled…
But yeah i will give you that, next I will double check before I post anything that scientific terms are actually spellt correctly. Thanks for pointing it out!
Looking forward to hearing from you (with a bit of substance this time I hope rather than commenting on people’s spelling
)
Kat
Again what a shame, someone who chooses to quote Walker….Again his work is based on what I would call emprirical studies at best….I think it’s great that people want to make this world a better place and help people improve their health but is it helpful to give them advice based on poor science?
Again this article written by Sarah by no means suggests that people should go and binge on junk foods rather it gives the reader more information so people can make informed choices. Empowering!
Good luck
Rebecca
http://blog.greensmoothiegirl.com/2012/06/01/can-green-smoothies-devastate-your-health/
is a better explanation of green smoothies. Where are the resources for backing up this article?
Heather
I think this post is absolutely ridiculous. Everything in moderation people! INCLUDING green smoothies. Why would so many people feel so good after drinking them day after day, they are fine, there is no reason to freak out about green smoothies!!! There is so much more evidence that points to the fact that greens and green smoothies are beneficial to our health than not. Decide for yourself but I for one am going to continue to drink my quart a day!
Kat
Actually there is…Open any books on anatomy and physiology and you’ll see that humans cannot digest cellulose (essential components in greens)…And the evidence that ‘shows’ that green smoothies work are based on empirical studies (if I can even call it that) but no real scientific evidence.
When I look at say Victoria Boutenko (who coined the term green smoothie, however it was first used by Ann Wigmore) I truly wonder if greens are the way to go….I am not trying to be offensive but she does not the perfect picture of health. Most importantly as I have mentioned it in another comment, the people ‘selling’ you the idea that greens will change your life base the core of their argumentation on the following: look at cows and gorillas they are strong and muscular so of course we can get our proteins from greens because that’s what they do….
Well again should I have to mention that cows and gorillas have a digestive track completely different of that of us humans? Cows have four stomachs and can digest the cellulose contain in greens because their digestive system is based on fermentation. Again this information is out there, just look for it! And I think that a nutritionist who comes up with these kinds of arguments to sell you greens, is a disgrace! I am quite sure she did not learn any of what she sells in her book when studying nutrition at Uni…Like a lot of nutritional gurus in the raw food community, she got it all from Arnold Ehret and Norman Walker’s books published last century which contain no scientif evidence…Read them! I have! You will see that all these nutritionist choose to discard what they have learnt in their degree to instead focus on the information contain in these books. Probably explains why every single book out there in the raw food workd is the rehash of someone else’s.
If people feel good when drinking green smoothies it is certainly because of the fruit…lso what if before introducing the green smoothie they were instead having a breakfast of cereals or other grains, inorganic ultra pasteurised milk,etc…? Of course they are going to see a difference!
Just do your own research before saying there is no evidence of this or that because there is….
All the best
Kristen Scherer
I have to kindly disagree with this post. And only one source listed? Seriously? These are some big claims you are making and you aren’t backing them up with any real knowledge.
Your blog is great and has some very helpful things for people looking to get healthy but is not only misleading, its simply not true.
And my personal experience is this. I have so many kidney stones in one of my kidneys the doctors would like to remove it. It only functions at 5% and is full of stones. I’ve been on daily green smoothies for 18 months now and haven’t had a single issue with my kidney stones. I drink 40+ ounces per day of raw, organic greens! In addition to kidney issues, I had thyroid issues related to endocrine and adrenal failure. 31 symptoms in all, I was a mess. Green smoothies have turned my life around and 30 of the 31 symptoms are GONE.
Please do some research!
Kindly,
Kristen
Pdavey
I have personally experienced the ill effects of high oxalate foods. I was diagnosed with celiac disease 3 years ago. So I began eating almonds, peanut butter, spinach, etc. A year later I began having extreme pain in my lower back. A CT scan diagnosed me with bilateral medullary nephrocalcinosis. This is not kidney stones. This is actual deposits of calcium into the cells of my kidneys. Basically turning them to stone. There is no way to reverse the build up, you have to find out the cause and elimated it and stop causing damage to the kidneys. My nephrologist did a 24 hour urine and, low and behold, my oxalate levels were through the roof! So, not only have I had to give up gluten for the celiac, I have to avoid high oxalate foods for the rest of my life. The good news is that ct scans have shown that the damage to my kidneys has not progressed.
Nic
I have consumed a plant base diet (90% + raw) for almost 10 years now. My daily staple would be either a green juice or green smoothie with attention to rotating greens regularly.
I truly believed I was consuming the most nourishing food for my body, however my health was deteriorating. Few of the symptoms I was experiencing were, exhaustion, lack of ability to focus or recall a conversation, extremely dry skin, eczema, zero tolerance to the cold, acne and I could go on.
Lucky for me a friend of mine who also was living a very clean plant base diet with an
emphasis on green juices happened to be struggling with similiar health issues. This friend was not blinkered like I and dared to explore nutrition from different sources.
What she found is greens are NOT health generating, they contain high amounts of PUFAS which are toxic and highly inflammatory (no such thing as moderation when it comes to poisons/toxens).
Took me a little while to come to grips with why and how so many “educated” health authors/gurus could be so wrong….naive.
I have experimented with removing greens and following a diet that is anti inflammatory, the result I have achieved is mind blowing and educational….the symptoms I have puzzled over and struggled with for years have disappeared almost over night.
I encourage people to do their own research ask questions and more questions and be careful not to follow what has clearly been the flavour of the month for sometime now.
Could it be that people have notice success with greens smoothies because the green smoothie meal is replacing a more toxic meal in the hierarchy of food choices? If this is the case it would leave one capped with what they will achieve with health or worse one could ultimately experience degeneration in their health.
If you are interested in fully researching this yourself check out everything you can from Ray Peat, this gentleman is a genius, a true educator!!
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Libby
Green soup. Green eggs and ham. We do get our greens. Thanks for worrying about us.
http://www.traditional-foods.com/recipes/green-soup/.
Scott
So, is anyone else sick of hearing about how great and educated ‘most people who follow this blog’ are? The truth is that this post has far exceeded the reach of your traditional readers, so quit defending this post in that manner! Many people reading this particular post need to change how they eat and adding veggies is a good idea for anyone. So if you want your ‘reading this blog club’ to be exclusively you who think the same, quit posting this on your damn Facebook pages and we won’t be inclined to read it and put in our 2 cents!
Allie
Scott- you clicked on fb to read the post. You choose to comment. You are also choosing to be fairly rude to people you have never met. Certainly you are more of a gentleman than this.
BTW – we eat veggies and I have yet to see it on my FB feed, maybe you need to hide or unsubscribe some friends.
Dan
Sarah, it’s interesting that you post an article about the “devastating” effects of green smoothies. Yeah, it might be a fad for now, but for people who don’t get any leafy greens or vegetables in their diet, it’s a great introduction to this food group. Instead of bashing on green smoothies, maybe you can redirect people to think a little more critically about what they’re putting into their bodies. The fact that people might be ingesting something a little better than a MacDonald’s Cheeseburger or Cheetos is a positive thing. Don’t get me wrong, skepticism is critical when discussing our health and the foods we eat, but it’s important to balance the skepticism out with education. What I disagree with is that you polarize people into believing one extreme without really providing optional perspectives. Shame on you!
Allie
Dan – most, if not all people who follow this blog do not do the McDonald’s, fast food, processed food diet. Personally, I came out of the vegan low-fat, vegetarian lifestyle. I became sick while eating this way and was told by a nutritionist that I needed animal protein. Grass fed, pastured, clean, & organic. I’m still in the process of learning and healing. My gut cannot handle raw veggies any longer, so this blog as well as others have taught me about fermenting to make them easier to digest. It also has taught me about soaking my grains and nuts for the same reason. I have learned about kefir and kombucha to help in restoring my gut.
This is a real foods blog. We are aware of the bad SAD diet in the western world. Pretty sure no one would be following this blog if they are happy in their choice of the SAD American diet.
Kat
oh and if you could expand on your point this would be great…
Kat
and I would encourage people who believe greens are the way to go, to do the same and look at the science behind this. Most of the information come from Norman Walker’s books written and published in the 70’s and which contain no scientific research, i’ll call the research emprirical at best.
I would also encourage people to keep an open mind and do their own research starting off by studying the anatomy and physiology of the human body. QUESTION everything you come across!
Robyn
I think it is very important for each person visiting this particular page to make informed decisions with regards to taking the information presented on this page on board as it pertains to his or her health. Please consider the sources, the studies and outcomes of those studies. Conclusions, you can draw yourself. Be carefully scrutinise the evidence before drawing conclusions. Here are the footnote references for those studies Kat refered to in the above link:
Onderstepoort J Vet Res 1989 Jun;56(2):145-6.
Nature 1994 Apr 21;368(6473):683-4.
Comment in: Nature 1994 Aug 11; 370(6489):408. Aust Vet J 1992 Jul;69(7):165-7.
Indian J Med Res 1991 Oct;94:378-83.
In Vivo 1998 Nov-Dec;12(6):675-89.
Ann Nutr Metab 1991;35(5):253-60.
Life Sci 1997;60(19):1635-41.
Food Chem Toxicol 1999 May;37(5):481-91.
Int J Food Sci Nutr 1998 Sep;49(5):343-52.
Med Oncol Tumor Pharmacother 1990;7(2-3):69-85.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1980 Aug;77(8):4961-5.
Br J Rheumatol 1994 Aug;33(8):790-1.
Nutr Cancer 1988;11(4):251-7.
J Toxicol Sci 1984 Feb;9(1):77-86.
Chung Hua Chung Liu Tsa Chih 1985 Mar;7(2):103-5
Proc Nutr Soc 1977 Sep;36(2):51A
Am J Clin Nutr 1995 Sep;62(3):506-11.
J Environ Sci Health B 1999 Jul;34(4):681-708.
BJU Int 2000 Jan;85(1):107-13.
Robyn
Interesting. Thank you for the link. Here is one of the conclusions the author came to:
“Animal proteins, and fruits, because they contain the lowest levels of toxins, should form the basis of the diet. Not all fruits, of course, are perfectly safe—avocados, for example, contain so much unsaturated fat that they can be carcinogenic and hepatotoxic.”
Quite revelatory… particularly for one who has gone the Atkins route, and so understand the “science” behind this thinking. The journals that were listed were in themselves quite astonishing, not the least of which was this:
BJU Int 2000 Jan;85(1):107-13. A maternal vegetarian diet in pregnancy is associated with hypospadias. The ALSPAC Study Team. Avon Longitudinal Study of Pregnancy and Childhood. North K, Golding J Unit of Paediatric and Perinatal Epidemiology, Division of Child Health, University of Bristol, UK. OBJECTIVE: To investigate the possible role of the maternal diet, particularly vegetarianism and consumption of phytoestrogens, in the origin of hypospadias, which is reported to be increasing in prevalence. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: Detailed information was obtained prospectively from mothers, including previous obstetric history, lifestyle and dietary practices, using structured self-completed questionnaires during pregnancy. Previously recognized associations with environmental and parental factors were examined, focusing particularly on the hypothesized hormonal link. Multivariate logistic regression was used to identify independent associations. RESULTS: Of 7928 boys born to mothers taking part in the Avon Longitudinal Study of Pregnancy and Childhood, 51 hypospadias cases were identified. There were no significant differences in the proportion of hypospadias cases among mothers who smoked, consumed alcohol or for any aspect of their previous reproductive history (including the number of previous pregnancies, number of miscarriages, use of the contraceptive pill, time to conception and age at menarche). Significant differences were detected for some aspects of the maternal diet, i.e. vegetarianism and iron supplementation in the first half of pregnancy. Mothers who were vegetarian in pregnancy had an adjusted odds ratio (OR) of 4.99 (95% confidence interval, CI, 2.10-11.88) of giving birth to a boy with hypospadias, compared with omnivores who did not supplement their diet with iron. Omnivores who supplemented their diet with iron had an adjusted OR of 2.07 (95% CI, 1.00-4.32). The only other statistically significant association for hypospadias was with influenza in the first 3 months of pregnancy (adjusted OR 3.19, 95% CI 1.50-6.78). CONCLUSION: As vegetarians have a greater exposure to phytoestrogens than do omnivores, these results support the possibility that phytoestrogens have a deleterious effect on the developing male reproductive system.
Right.
Kat
I can understand your reaction
…After years of juicing greens, this article rocked my world…Don’t draw any conclusions on just reading this one single article. Do your own research! By all means you don’t have to believe Ray Peat. But start looking into anatomy and physiology and get a better understanding of how the human body works.
To me what is really scary is when I hear a nutritionist (such as the one who responded to this article) compare us humans to cows and rhinoceros to justify that we can get our proteins from greens. Doesn’t that nutritionist know that cows have a digestive track thats completely different to that of a human? They have four stomachs for a start not just one like we do.
Don’t take my word for it or that of anyone word for that matter, just do your own research and come to your on conclusions. Just be very wary of those who believe/claim they have all the answers but little is based on actual scientific facts.
And if what you’re doing is working for you, then good on you
Good luck
Kat
a ‘nutritionist’ has responded to your blog post on her own blog but i feel she’s really taken it all out of context as if your article was advicating for people to load up on junk…Here’s the link:
http://www.kimberlysnyder.net/blog/2012/05/29/response-to-article-how-green-smoothies-can-devastate-your-health/
I thought you could maybe writea response too? Don’t think it’s professional that she’s taking your words out of context.
Robyn
Be interested to read this response, particularly the substantiating literature citations.
I have read this entire thread, and have yet to see a reference to studies or research to support the initial assertation as valid advice for the general population. The conditions being discussed affect 1.4% of the population. What percent of the population are affected by cancer? Heart disease? Those are “devastating” diseases, not renal calculi.
There have been many calls for reference to supporting literature, all of which have been ignored. This speaks volumes to the credibility of those assertations.
Kat
Of course! there’s plenty! Here’s a start for you:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/vegetables.shtml (Read about the author too!)
Again this article was not written to promote junk but that’s funny reading some of the comments I feel that’s what peopel got out of it…Interesting…
Monica
I’m shocked and dismayed by the vitriol directed at this blog post and the Healthy Home Economist.
Green Smoothies aren’t going to be the be all and end all for everyone. I hated them. Maybe it was because I didn’t use the $600 blender needed to make them really smooth. Maybe because it really didn’t taste great. Maybe I would have preferred soup. In any event, I will not be drinking or trying to drink any more green smoothies.
Cooking green vegetables in a little real butter makes sense to me.
Cris
There are many people that…. Drink soda everyday, drink energy drinks everyday, drink coffee everyday, eat red meat everyday, eat processed sugar everyday, go to fast food places everyday, smoke everyday, drink alcohol everyday. I feel much better having a green smoothie loaded with vitamins and antioxidants each day than any of the above. 😉
Bonita
Everyone body is different. If you have thyroid issues YES you need to cook your veggies. For some, green smoothies have done wonders for their health. Others, no. To say that everyone shouldn’t drink them or everyone needs to stop eating spinach? Kale? Are you kidding? The post should be how everyone needs to stop eating fast and processed foods that are the true killers. But no … it’s human nature to read something like this and go overboard and that overboard is telling people to stop eating green veggies … ludicrous!!
Learn and do what is good for your own health. Listen to what your body needs. Eat real food, mostly plants, not too much … how’s that for advice
Allie
Bonita – educate yourself on traditional real foods and this blog before making assumptions in your “drive by” comment on what this post needs to be about.
We know about the dangers of fast and processed foods. Most following this blog and the like do not adhere to he SAD American diet, so there is no point in making a post about it.
No one has told anyone to “stop eating green veggies”.
Kat
agree 100% with you Allie!
Pingback: How Green Smoothies Devastated My Health « The Wellness Wordsmith Blog
CJ
After reading much of Victoria Boutenko’s work and research I decided that I needed to try green smoothies for my health. In addition to various veggies I add avocado and coconut oil. They are extremely nutritious and good for my body. Anyone who wants to question the opinion of this author should read some of Boutenko’s books. It’s based on actual experience and research, not a silly opinion.
And here’s yet another opinion from incrediblesmoothies.com
“The short answer is “generally, no”. There are a few rare medical conditions such as Primary Hyperoxaluria and Enteric Hyperoxaluria where one would need to restrict their dietary intake of oxalic acid. Also, those who are susceptible and have been treated for calcium-oxalate kidney stones, and therefore at risk of forming them again, should watch their intake of oxalate-containing foods.
Otherwise, oxalic acid is not believed to be a health concern for most people. Keep in mind that your body regularly produces oxalic acid, often synthesizing other substances such as vitamin C into oxalic acid. Whether you eat foods that contain it or not, your body maintains a naturally-occurring level of oxalic acid and regularly produces it whether you consume it in your diet or not.”
Leslie
WOW isn’t this ridiculous?? So all that fuzz about “eating your vegetables” turns out to be DEVASTATING after all??? LOL hey you dear Sarah idiot, what’s your next advice? Twinkies and Coke for breakfast? Since healthy food devastates your health, maybe we should start skipping it altogether. Get to school for Christ sake!!! Learn about health and nutrition!!! DOn’t just quote and article you half way understand.
LOL No salad for me, I ate salad this week already and the crazy home economist told me I may die if I eat healthy leaves more than that
Kiki
Wow, Leslie, you sound like a winner. Is this how you argue at home also? Calling people names and showing your ignorance? If you have ever read Sarah’s blog or anything related to Weston A Price Foundation or Nourishing Traditions you would know that she would NEVER recommend Twinkies or Coke. And there are enough typos and grammatical mistakes in your post that should make you embarrassed to tell someone to “get to school”. We wont even mention using the Lord’s name in vain. Classy.
Kat
Leslie you might want to do more reasearch…Read Deep Nutrition by Dr Cate Shanahan. Also look up Josh Rubin on youtube.com. A bit sad how you just insulted the writer of this article and made the wrong assumptions on what she was saying just because you disagree with her but do not have anything (SCIENTIFIC) to back-up your opinion with….
Leslie
Ohhhh You Kiki don’t really argue that well either, oh by the way, sorry for the typos and the grammar errors, English is not my mother language as I don’t live in the US, but at least I speak another language, i bet you don’t, you sound like the typical American ignorant, blind follower of stupid pseudo scientist like the writer of the article. And I stand by my advice to her to go back to school! I’m no t claiming to be proficient in English grammar, but she actually IS claiming to be an EXPERT on nutrition. And you Kiki, learn to debate better
Kiki Bacaro
Leslie, hon, the difference is, I am not arguing with you just letting you know that your way of arguing would, in my professional opinion (I am a mental health counselor with a master’s degree in Psychology) be considered abusive.
As a matter of fact, English happens to be my second language as I am of Cuban descent and did not learn to speak English until I went to grade school and even then spoke only Spanish at home until about 4th grade.
Oh, and about debating, I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a debater; I was, in fact, just stating what was obvious to everyone else, that you are rude and obviously don’t care what anyone thinks of you.
Leslie
What? your reply to my reply is scientific? Wow, you are telling me you believe that eating (or drinking in this case) green leafy vegetables can DEVASTATE your health? Really?, you watched some Doctor on youtube and that is proof of science? Do you know why I felt like insulting the author? Because her stuipidity may mislead ignorant people into thinking (or confirming) that greens are bad and should not be an important part of the diet. Seeing how tremendously obese the American population is, I bet you don’t need to hear such nonsense. You criticize for not offering anything scientific back up, well neither did you! But hey if you think words by a random doctor are SCIENCE, well go ahead, but don’t preach
Heidi @ Low Oxalate Info
Thank you for your post and for drawing attention to the potential dangers of high oxalate diets and drinks! I want to join in the conversation to say that oxalate problems are real and sometimes severe. I was disabled for many years due to oxalate-related symptoms. When you absorb or make too much oxalate, your body tries to defend itself by tucking the excess oxalate away in other tissues (thyroid, eye, brain, muscles, joints, genitals are all common “tucking away” places). Which tissues it chooses varies by individuals, but it eventually will cause health problems when the levels get too high. Unfortunately, many doctors don’t realize that what is causing your pain, chronic fatigue, irritability, brain fog, burning sensations etc. is oxalate. I invite anyone who wants to read more about the low oxalate diet and who can benefit from a low oxalate diet to visit my blog – Low Oxalate Info. I personally follow a Paleo/WAP-inspired low oxalate diet and my recipes and blog reflects this.
http://lowoxalateinfo.com/the-low-oxalate-diet/
Heidi
Wes Youngberg
The very thought that green smoothies place our health at risk is a classic example of throwing the baby out with the bath water!
This entire article could easily pas as an advertorial for the processed and junk food industry.
This is a well written encyclical seemingly designed to confuse those interested in health.
It’s as if it was funded by the Foundation for Promoting Nutritional Genocide!!
I never dreamed of the day that green leafy veggies would be described as foods we should carefully moderate and in general limit.
Any metabolically savvy clinician understands that greens are the foundation of any healthy diet and that whole plant based foods set the biochemical parameters for minimizing any tendency to crystalization in tissues.
How many years have well intended clinicians discouraged green leafy veggies when placing patients on coumadin!
For over a decade, research hematologists have clarified that patients needing coumadin should eat ample amounts of greens and even take 100mcg of Vitamin K daily! Then the coumadin is adjusted to the diet – not the other way around!
Just like with all clever lies there is some truth in the article but the message is completely false!
Of interest is the way the articles author sought to established credibility by naming her source as Dr. William Shaw. If you read his article you find great information about oxalates but in a very different context than portrayed in her article (Source: The Role of Oxalates in Autism and Chronic Disorders, William Shaw PhD)
The focus should be that the average person needs to eat far more greens but also properly balance our diet with healthy forms of protein, fats and high fiber starches. In addition, we must never forget that health requires paying attention to all wellness parameters – not just diet. And finally, due to our unique genetic variability each of us should take advantage of broad laboratory testing. These tests gives us clues regarding our multiple weaknesses and therefore give us specific direction in our journey to interventional wellness.
Wes Youngberg, DrPH, MPH, CNS, FACLM
Kat
I reckon you’d learn a lot more by reading Ray Peat’s (phd) work on hsi website. http://www.raypeat.com
Dan
I’ve been reading and listening to all these comments on a simple article where everyone thinks their way is best and I have come to the conclusion that rookies to the alkaline or vegan diet like me are totally confused by the disagreements of the seemingly experts on here. There are comments from all walks of life, herbalists, nutritionist, alternative medicine doctors, etc. Comments from professionals, comments from laymen like me! Most all are in disagreement!
I really think it boils down to the fact that if you eat too much of anything it can be bad for you. Likewise, if you eat foods based upon the diet (The Western Lifestyle Diet) of the unhealthiest societies in the world you’re gonna suffer the consequences of sickness and bad health.
Maybe we ought to look equally as well at the foods we eat and how they are produced! Monsanto’s GM grains, imported foods from countries that lack laws governing certain pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers, etc, etc.! Look at the illness and deteriorating health of some South American countries where the blatant use of Roundup and other pesticides is killing people and ask yourself, HOW is that effecting me and the foods we eat!
We can all eat right but if the foods we do eat are NOT right what good does it do? Might as well eat at “Micky Dees” and enjoy that Big Mac and fries and a hi-fructose laden Coke!!!!! Our food is gonna kill us either way if we do not awaken the world to the atrocities of big food producers, big grain producers and unscrupulous chemical producers all of which are putting the greed of profit over our health!
Gabriella
Also I can’t believe all the hatred on this post directed towards Sarah and the Weston Price Foundation, who have done so much to educate people on matters of nutrition and health. If you don’t like what she has to say, no one is forcing you to keep reading. Just click away. Or learn how to debate intelligently without name-calling and ostracizing. My health has improved leaps and bounds since discovering the Weston A. Price Foundation. (No, they did not pay me anything to say that.) I would not trade the knowledge I’ve gained for the world. Spend some time educating yourself before you blindly parrot what the status quo “knows” about saturated fats, etc.
Leslie
LOL you don’t debate intelligently yourself, just whine!
Gabriella
What topic would you like to debate on? I’m ready.
blender dude
Thanks for the article. Enjoyed the perspective as well as the comments, pro and con.
Lindsay
Is this a joke? You’re recommending to “be sure to eat greens with butter”?? I’ve never once read or heard a reason to eat butter as a part of healthy diet. I’ve also never heard of greens being bad for you. What DO you suggest people eat instead of the times they’d have the green smoothies? I replaced coffee with green smoothies/juice and my chronic headaches have gone away, along with TMJ, bloating, weight gain… the list goes on. I’m curious to the sources of this article… surely it’s not just the one.
Gabriella
GTFO this blog if you don’t know that butter is part of a healthy diet! UGH! I’m getting frustrated with these ignorant comments.
Kat
Then you NEED to do more readings Linday…I’d highly recommend you’d read Deep Nutrition by Dr Cate Shanahan and read Ray Peat’s articles on his website (that’ll answer your question)…You’ll understand WHY (all backed-up by science not ‘spiritual’ theories often conveyed by raw foodists) saturated fats are healthy amongst other things…mmm what peopel eat instead of greens? Gosh that’s a hard one lol Let me see fruit (pears, apples,persimmons,oranges,etc…), organic dairies from grass-fed animals, root vegetables,etc… Thsi article does not tell you to load up on junk, it tells you to eb careful taht greens do contain toxix substances. thsi is no secret. The information si out there you just need to look for it…
Clarity
I am wondering why the post I sent to this blog yesterday did not get published.
It was Victoria Boutenko’s well-cited response to your article in her most recent newsletter.
As many know, Victoria has popularized, researched and published widely on thehealth benefits of green smoothies and I am sure many here would be interested to know her response .
I hope you will make this available to your readers.
Let’s try one more time:
Here is the link:
http://www.rawfamily.com/newsletters/raw-family-newsletter-archive-2012
Scroll down to the May 2012 newsletter with topic “Oxalic Acid and Green Smoothies”
Jon
Sarah,
I watched your Youtube video to the right of this article. I commend you for being extremely mindful of diet, nutrition, and wellness! I appreciate your articles and I think that you should right an article on the Moringa Oleifera Tree; I think you will be enlightened, stunned, and very excited just as I was. I am an Independent Distributor with Zija International. We are the Moringa Company and I would love to discuss research already done and hopefully the research you and others you may know (ex. “Dr. Price”) will conduct. Moringa is powerful and truly delivers what our bodies require. Please get back to me and may you Drink life In! I hope you read this and thank you so much for your time doing so and your work with this site.
To your Wellness and Success,
Jonathan Hernandez
Independent Distributor with Zija International
Barbara
The real issue some are having is with the realization that what they have believed for so long or have been told even by health professionals could possibly be incorrect. I used to be in the same boat. But most if not all of these references that are cited from the so called” experts” or REAL nutritionists’ are established on bad science and backed, funded and promoted for some kind of special interest or business tactic. Bottom line is, do your own research, and decide what is right for you and your family. Eat natural foods, work with and around whatever genetic potential or conditions might be there and give your body and brain whole food nutrition so that your biochemistry is capable of producing health and happiness!
Rachel
The only thoughts I have are these:
I’m sure high oxalate levels can be dangerous, but my goodness, EATING SHOULDN’T BE THIS COMPLICATED! No one should have to be a nutritionist or a doctor or have to spend their lives studying food to know what to eat. Just for kicks, imagine that God created dark leafy greens for Adam and Eve but then told them that they had to eat them with butter (“butter? what’s butter?”) to get the most nutrients from them. Do you think they really went and found a cow and figured out how to churn butter before they ate spinach? Oh and then where did they cook it? No, they probably ate some raw nuts and seeds (natural fats) as a part of the many different natural foods available to them. Or imagine that he had to tell them not to eat too many vegetables, or nuts, or fruit, etc, because of “high oxalates.” Eating really shouldn’t be so complicated.
I agree with the “moderation” comments, and with eating things that are in season. I am one of those who has a green smoothie every day because if I didn’t, I’d still eat the fruits and greens anyways. I like the convenience and taste of the green smoothie, and I like how I feel. And you know what? I’ve never felt better. I rotate my greens and don’t put too much. I’m eating fruits and vegetables rather than basically zero-nutrient meat, cheese, milk, and cancer-promoting processed food like I was eating before, and like typical Americans eat. My skin is vibrant, I have more energy than I’ve ever had, I’m losing weight, my digestion is regular, and I feel great.
Eat a VARIETY of REAL NATURAL FOOD, the way God made them. Not too much. Lots of veggies and fruits. Exercise daily. And LIVE YOUR LIFE!
Allie
Rachel – there were no blenders, or electricity in the garden, so smoothies were not a part of the menu. The garden was perfect, the food was perfect, then they fell. It is clear in the scriptures that meat, dairy, butter, grains, fish, fruit, veggies were all eaten about 10 generations after Adam and Eve.
You may want to look at what the Lord had to eat with Abraham in genesis 18:1-8. Curds can be translated as butter. God gave manna and they boiled or cooked it. He gave quail. In Leviticus he sets the parameters of a clean and health lifestyle which includes meat and dairy.
I agree with you that eating should not be this difficult, but we live in a polluted and broken down world where all things are groaning for, “that day”….some of us are looking for the best diet for ourselves….some have ended up with the wapf diet after trying veganism or the SAD way of life.
Hopefully one day, in the new heaven and earth we will be back to eating only that which was in the Garden, no more animals.
After being a vegan, I worked through this thought of meat….have come to the conclusion that because of the fall, death entered the world and this for animals as well. Maybe our fallen bodies need animal protein to survive…God ordained it and gave it to us….meat, dairy, butter, grains, veggies and fruit are through out the bible. Now if it all could be raised and grown properly, as God intended, then maybe we wouldn’t have so many issues with our food.
Linda
Ohhh Sarah! I am surely finding out just how people just do not know. They just are so brainwashed ….and just don’t know. But boy have you got them thinking! And that is a really good thing. Most haven’t even bothered to ‘know’ you or what you stand for….just want someone to bash. And it’s a shame because these people will never enjoy the health just because they won’t think outside the box or get out of their comfort zones. I admire you more with each bashing! Yeah raw cow’s milk, real butter, grass fed meat and eggs from chickens on pasture …..they just do not get it. And they won’t . Oh a few will ….but the majority won’t. And that is so sad.
Elizabeth
I am outraged by this article. How irresponcible can you be to make the insinuations and suggestings this page contains. Cook all vegetables and eat with butter??? You would rather we kill off some of the vitamins and nutrients, despite the fact that this will be unlikely to affect oxalates (according to you only paragraphs earlier), and then add in lipids that human bodies also have trouble breaking down? The same dairy product many nutritionists believe leads to clogged arteries?
We are in a country where the average American eats less than 5% vegetables in his/her diet. And if less than 1% of Americans suffer from oxolate health problems… couldn’t it be deduced that vegetables are NOT the issue here? Not to mention the vegetables to blame are not ALL dark leafy vegetables but a sample of 10 or so high oxolate veggie cuplrits. This page reeks of bias, from the first paragraphs describing a SMALL PERCENTAGE OF AMERICA who are WORKING OUT and trying to TAKE CARE OF THEIR BODIES. You should be ashamed. It is so sad that this misinformation has been shared and turned EVEN ONE person away from changing their lifestyles and health.
Probably the most reprehensible paragraph award goes to this gem:
“Given that the majority of people today suffer from gut imbalance/fungal issues caused by antibiotic and prescription drug use along with consumption of processed foods, a high oxalate diet which includes green smoothies is an unwise practice for virtually everyone.”
—You first say the gut/fungal issues are CAUSED by prescription drugs and processed foods, and then say that this somewhere somehow means people should not drink green smoothies. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. WHO ARE YOU WRITING THIS FOR? ILLITERATES!?
-still fuming
Allie
Elizabeth – seriously. This information on green smoothies and the use of butter makes you this upset?
Can’t you just simply agree to disagree without being so angry and on the attack?
Linda
This article is making a lot of people very uncomfortable so they go on the defensive. But it IS making them think. I guess….those that get the meat of the issue!
Marie
I’m not going to read through every comment here. I just have to say that you all who think Green Smoothies are the culprit for all of your health problems are completely insane. Use your reasoning and logic! Green foods are the absolute healthiest for you on the planet. So, is the problem that you can’t process them because you have a diseased body in one way or another? You got kidney stones from spinach and it was SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN that in fact, it was the spinach? I highly doubt it. Once again this is a case of focusing on the NEGATIVE rather than the positive benefits. There are much fewer anti-nutrients than there are beneficial nutrients, and you WORRY that the anti-nutrients are causing damage? WHAT ABOUT YOUR STRESS LEVEL AND WORRY? Are you eating a healthy, plant-based diet along with your green smoothies, or are your smoothies an excuse to eat junk all day long? Are you on any medications that can be interfered with by consuming ‘high’ level of oxilates? Consider all your options before you blame the greens. Science is not black and white, most all of the data is not conclusive enough because of the controls. (When in doubt, follow the money. Who paid for the study?) Food science is new and whole foods are much more complicated and complex than the known nutrients that they contain. USE YOUR BRAIN. SPINACH HATERS BEWARE.
amy
Hi Momma’s out there! I just wanted to encourage you to not give up! I know after reading this I got angry, then cried, then felt like a helpless failure of a mom. After a couple days I picked myself back up again by the truth. We don’t have any control over how we die. Isn’t that what everybody is worried about here? The people here think that they are right…. and when that is challenged, it makes them feel like they are losing their false sense of control. Ok, so pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find another way. Don’t use green leaves that have high oxalates, use something else! There is plenty of other veggies to put in yours and your kids smoothies. Its not a fad for me and if its not for you then don’t listen to people that make you feel like you are doing something wrong. Among many other benefits, smoothies are helping my kids to love the taste of veggies when they can quite chew lettuce yet. If you are making Jamba Juice/ high oxalate smoothies everyday to replace meals then… well, just try and think how you can change them by what you’ve learned here.
You can do this and you are not a terrible mom!
michelle
Can anyone tell me how to opt out of receiving follow up comments? Thanks!
Laura Farnsworth
Sarah, where is the research to support this opinion? I have never heard of kidney stones resulting from plants or plant-based diets, which is usually from high meat or protein intake. Crazy to scare people into not eating what’s ultimately a healthier option. See “Food Matters,” a fantastic documentary. We’re all deficient in what green plants give us.
Magda
My dad had kidney stones and was told to avoid strawberries and spinach (two of his very favorite foods) as they are high in oxalates and lead to kidney stones. Growing up in Europe we didn’t have other greens like chard or kale but spinach was pretty popular.
Scott
Author of this article – please cite published, peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate the reality of the dangers you are describing. You can link them here in the comments if you wish.
Thanks.
Marie
Exactly.
Jessica
this blogs post is full of shizzz they probably haven’t even had a vegetable in the entire live. so super shut up to your bull shizz
ber
I have been blending and juicing daily for quite some time. I have never been healthier!!!!!!!!!!!
MarÃa
Oh well…. I’ve been alternating every morning between making Kimberly Snyder’s Glowing Green Smoothie, and making a green smoothie made with a big hanful of spinach, 8 carrots, slices from 1/2 apple, and 2 big strawberries, and I’ve havent had any breakouts on my face for almost 2 weeks! Unless it’s life threatening, I will not stop consuming these.
AC
oh geez…this article is so one sided…why dont you mention all the benefits of the green smoothie?
why dont we all go back to eating all the processed and genetically modified crap that is thrown our way or shall I say rammed down our throats!!…is that your answer to good health?
LuvGreenSmoothies
We’ve been having our green smoothies on a daily basis for a year now. Just recently, our annual check with our doctor revealed that our blood tests came back normal. No more anemia, no more high cholesterol… everything was normal! And we feel great!
Just because some people may not be able to process it well, does not mean we have to avoid it. Everything has to be in moderation but at the same time, you have to look at what you eat as a whole. Eat more local and organic food rather than conventional. Eat more raw/less-processed foods than the usual. Eat more plant-based foods than meat. No fast food. Read labels. It’s a lot of work but you are what you eat.
At the end of the day, you follow what your body tells you. To me, adding butter does not solve it.
This article is very one-sided. It may be true but I wish it presented the possible benefits as well.
Carly
Please do some of your own research before you stop nourishing your body with the healthiest foods on the planet!!!!
If you have a disorder that predisposes you to high oxelate levels, speak to your doctor about how to keep eating greens while controlling your levels. Personally I have been drinking green juice every morning, including a big bunch of spinach, for the past few years with no problems and amazing results. Oxelate levels is an individually specific issue and should not be geared towards the general public.
http://www.kimberlysnyder.net/blog/2012/05/29/response-to-article-how-green-smoothies-can-devastate-your-health/
Peabody
Sarah in her own words, from a post she wrote yesterday:
The next time a bizarre, modern notion like eating a simple bowl of scrambled eggs is dangerous comes along, just think about what your Great Grandparents ate. If they scrambled their eggs, chances are good that you can safely eat them too!
Just replace a few words and look at what you get. Funny!
The next time a bizarre, modern notion like eating a *green smoothie* is dangerous comes along, just think about what your Great Grandparents ate. If they *ate greens*, chances are good that you can safely eat them too!
Allie
Yeah, and they ate them slathered in pig grease and butter with hamhocks. Oh no!
I think the point is – green smoothies MAY be too much for SOME people.
Green smoothies CAN be devastating for SOME people.
Natasha Zeligs
I think you’d better do some more research. Most of these conditions are
1) Extremely rare
2) This toxicity is mainly attributed to high consumption of animal proteins
3) Kidney stones are indicative of other issues within the body, namely a highly acidic state.
I have been drinking at least 3 Green smoothies a day and look and feel amazing (I’m 52).
I am a certified nutritionist and have myself and my clients add good fat (coconut oil) and protein powder (raw rice protein) to them and they are balanced and extremely high in nutrients.
It’s too bad that you read a couple of articles and then deemed it reasonable to publish the ridiculous information you did.
Cheryl
This truly borders on complete stupidity.
Emma
What a load of crap. Telling people to enjoy salad, greens, and green smoothies in moderation is the exact opposite of what people need to be doing.
If this was a link bait article you accomplished your goal. Unfortunately, for a few links and page views, you will be adversely affecting the health of people who read this and become afraid of probably the most benign and healthful food they could have. Hope you sleep well at night.
jenny
I’m a nursing mother and I have green smoothie daily, I love the way i feel and i love the way i look, from an asian family i was raised eating green leafy vegetable and i can’t imagine living without it. I have never studied nutrition but i do listen to my body very carefully and work very hard to give it what it needs. So far, no kidney stones, no painful sex and no fungal infections that i used to have. I have respect wisdom and knowledge and thank you for kindly sharing your knowledge and your experience with the world.I felt that the article intensions was very brain washing in a very negative way and it needs to stop.
Isabella Taylor
Educate yourselves… If you are having adverse reactions to consuming leafy greens, chances are that you have others things going wrong…
http://www.kimberlysnyder.net/blog/2012/05/29/response-to-article-how-green-smoothies-can-devastate-your-health/
jenny
two thumbs up, love Kim Snyder.
Peabody
I’m curious as to which “traditional cultures” cook their vegetables in butter…? What the hell are you even talking about?
Karen Vaughan, L. Ac.
In India, greens are traditionally cooked in clarified butter. In Europe butter or olive oil. In parts of Africa, they are cooked in butter,
Traditional cultures did and do consume soups which are made from essentially green smoothie veggies together with their pot liquor. That isn’t so different since cooking likely increases oxalate availability in undrained cooked veggies. Most people who drink green smoothies use them as their primary vegetable source, they don’t live on them. And a lot include yogurt or other sources of calcium or magnesium which will bind the oxalates.
The single article you cite Sarah is not a scientific source, it is an opinion piece by a PhD who I will assume is a scientist. I’ve been scouring pubMed for backup, reading journal articles and checking research. That is where you find scientific sources.
Here is an article on hyperoxularia that provides a quite different take on oxalate build-up (and I cite it as a confirmed carnivore.) http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/444683-overview#aw2aab6b3 :
High-protein (meat) intake is known to be a significant risk factor for calcium stone disease because of its effect on urinary calcium and uric acid. A 2001 European study by Nguyen et al evaluated the effect of a diet high in meat protein on urinary oxalate in healthy subjects versus patients with idiopathic calcium stones and those with mildly hyperoxaluric calcium stones.[33]
The investigators found that approximately one third of those with idiopathic calcium stones responded to the high meat-protein intake with a significant increase in urinary oxalate excretion, while no effect was noted in healthy subjects. This suggests that, in addition to its effects on urinary calcium and uric acid levels, excessive meat-protein intake may increase urinary oxalate excretion.
…………………………….
Incidentally milk or yogurt lowers oxalate excretion:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2621.2011.02741.x/abstract
kim
this is nuts. every person is different. you should tell people to visit their dr to talk about these issues instead of telling people straight out that it is horrible.
reading through these responses boggles my mind. think for yourselves people.
Pingback: Response to Article: How Green Smoothies Can Devastate Your Health
Linda
I cannot believe this ! I went camping on Saturday and this battle was raging and I came home today and it’s still going on ! GOOOOOO SARAH! WHOOOOOOOOO! Love ya girl!
Bryan
Sarah … and people who are aware of the animal protein link … perhaps you should read this .. and then give us your thoughts. Greens with EVERY meal are excellent for your health.
http://rawfamily.com/news/2012/05/12-05-04.html
Thank you
Saibah Wayne
Thank you Bryan, I replied to Sarah’s reply telling her that after being raw for 2years if I eat anything with any form of an animal product even if its a trace of milk, my body reacts immediately and that anyone consuming the raw greens should abstain from any animal products completely
Barbara LaRosa via Facebook
I just read the most recent newsletter from the Raw Family website about oxalates and it appears there is more evidence to indicate that animal product is more the culprit
Barbara LaRosa via Facebook
I just read the most recent newsletter from the Raw Family website about oxalates and it appears there is more evidence to indicate that animal product is more the culprit
Morgan
This is so interesting!!!! I’m a nursing mother and in order to pack in a lot of nutrition I was having a green smoothie daily. After a few weeks of this new practice I started getting horrible bloating and gas. I originally chalked it up to the recent re-introduction of dairy back into my diet after a two week break for my nursling {it didn’t help}. But it didn’t really make sense because dairy makes up a large portion of my diet, especially while pregnant or nursing, and I’ve never in my life had an issue with dairy. Our son’s doctor suggested that I always had an issue and didn’t realize it or perhaps it was the probiotics I was taking, which could be true I suppose, but I started laying off the smoothies and my symptoms started subsiding. Again I chalked it up to my body adjusting to the dairy. Then I had a smoothie for the first time in a few weeks and there again was that horrible bloating, cramping and gas. I could not believe it was the smoothies! I even bought new spinach thinking maybe I had a funny batch. I still don’t know with 100% certainty that it was the smoothies but my instincts of late have been to avoid them. This just proves that everything in moderation is best
BlueHat
Agents of misinformation like this Sarah —no last name- are actually doing humanity a favor. They help us weed out the dumb and stupid who believes in this anti propaganda BS. So go ahead and if you were on Green Smoothie and want to stop it, great. You just leave more fresh green for the rest of us. Go and eat your GMOs, the Good American Beef and contribute your last dollars to the ecological problems by giving your dollars to Big business who funds these misinformation agents.
Allie
Bluehat – with all due respect, big AG/gmo are not part of those who follow this blog, your comment is out of ignorance to a traditional foods diet.
personally I purchase a great majority of my foods from a local organic farmer who is in network with other like farmers. No gmo’s…no big AG.
Please educate yourself with the “ins and outs” of a traditional foods diet before making assumptions.
Jennifer
Definitely checking into this further. We have a child with Multicystic Dysplastic & only one healthy kidney. We make green smoothies & juice a couple time a week. Plus, I add Amazing Grass to these drinks. Sarah, I appreciate your willingness to share this post. I do believe all things in moderation and making sure fruits/veggies are organic and GMO free is a must…BUT…for our family, knowing that oxalates could cause kidney stones is a sincere concern. It amazes me that nephrology specialists didn’t warn us about kidney stones caused from certain veggies. We must be our own advocates!! Thank you for making us aware. Now it is up to us to research and make the healthiest decision for our child and family. Blessings –
Danielle
More research is being done at this moment on oxalates. Besides already being in the body they are in fruits, vegetables, nuts & seeds, legumes, grains, chocolate, blk tea and cocoa. The problem is humans overdo everything especially when it comes to food. All of our bodies are different, some people do fine with lots of oxalates in the diet. Listen to your body it will tell you what you need and what it does not tolerate. Our body is always talking to us and It’s only when we refuse to listen or when we don’t understand what to listen for, that our bodies “turn up the volume” in an effort to get us to pay attention. This can often result in a manifested illness or dis-ease in the body. Here is a wonderful chart for those of you that want to pay more attention to their oxalates in the diet.
http://www.ohf.org/docs/Oxalate2004.pdf
Carrissa
Thank you for the great article that alerted me to the oxalate levels in my vegetables. I definitely agree that naturally occurring fats are the only good fats for you. My husband and I were raised on margarine and processed foods and have resigned myself to the fact that I will probably die of cancer, however, slowly but surely we are changing the foods that we eat. It is not a change that is easy on $40 a week food budget for 5 people.
I find it interesting that there are people who comment about vegan and raw diets helping cure cancer and believe it is true. A friend of mine dealt with cancer in this way. I believe people need to realize your advice is given to have a healthy life if one is not facing a life threatening disease, or a severe allergy. Obviously, if one has such a condition you treat that condition first. I haven’t seen the author contradict that the RAW diets have helped those suffering from cancer. This article seems to deal with a more specific ailments caused by too many oxalates in one’s diet.
Kathleen Conner
Holy cow. There’s a lot of people upset and saying that you are wrong. But you’re very clear that this applies to SOME PEOPLE.
Well, I’m “some people”, and am astounded. I’ve been feeling bad for years and years, like I’m doing something wrong, because I feel like certain foods or ways of eating disagree with me. In fact, EVERYthing you mentioned is what bothers me! I’m blown away. Thank you so much. Once again, I need to be OK just listening to my body. I’ve been feeling guilty because I cook almost all my veggies, and can’t bring myself to eat things like kale. Well, no more! It’s amazing how having a name for a condition makes it OK in my head, but there it is.
Once again,
Thank you! And for everyone so upset—cut it out. This is helpful to some people. If it doesn’t apply to you, then pass the article by.
Jim Robicsek, M.H.
Dear Sarah,
I make no pretense to be a medical doctor or scientist, just so we’re clear going in. Rather, as a Master Herbalist in private practice here in Vermont, I can report to you that green smoothies are a favored part of the natural healing programs that I have been putting people on for decades. Contrary to what you’ve said, everyone who has engaged this practice has seen benefits and no one has ever reported the slightest problem, quite the opposite. “Science” is infinitely confusing for most people and you’re only adding to the confusion. A suggestion–stick with direct personal experience and avoid scientific mumbo-jumbo. The proof is in the pudding. Green smoothies are awesome! Try to put aside the tendency we all have to validate the activities we engage in and find out for yourself whether something works or not. Experiment, explore, question. Some people I know have been doing green smoothies almost every day for 10 or even 20 years. They are among the healthiest people alive, vibrant, life-affirming, loving, energized and extremely active. Please take a second look before jumping to an unfounded conclusion.
Joe
Hi Jim, I’ve been having a terrible time trying to find more positive based scientific feedback around green smoothies. I’m new to green smoothies, only discovering them a few months ago. But as someone who does not like veggies raw or cooked, this was a perfect solution I thought as I’m happy to put it all in my vitamix and drink it down. I’ve been using a cup of various berries, a sweet fruit like banana or pineapple, and 1 to 2 cups of collard greens. Do you have any advise as someone who has been doing this for years as to what veggies to use for maximum benefit as well as the quantity per drink? I’m mid 30’s, in good shape, and suffer no known ailments, just want to be healthier. I’d like to have a formula that I can tweak to my own personal body. If I had a list of veggies I should use for maximum health and vary them every couple of weeks or months, that’d be great. I’ve just had a hard time finding good discussions around this, only the negative “if you eat or drink this too much you’ll harm yourself” which doesn’t help. Especially when “Too Much” means nothing to me, I need at least some quantifiable data. Thanks for any help!
Joy
I’m sorry but this article reeks of BS. I understand that for SOME people this could be an issue. But to further state that one should eat salads in moderation and not everyday is comical. The article then goes on to suggest we cook the greens in butter to “maximum absorption of minerals.” is down right irresponsible. The moment you cook a vegetable it begins to lose nutrients, and adding butter only adds cholesterol and saturated fat! Sure there is a little calcium in butter, but I’d rather eat an orange. Good grief, no wonder people are so confused about what they should be eating!
Brenda
Where are the citings for the scientific evidence to validate this article? Do oxalates from dietary sources contribute to oxalic build-up in the body or does the Candida Albicans overgrowth create it? Why is the author so motivated to tell people to STOP drinking green smoothies instead of suggesting rotating types of greens used and drink in moderation? Chronic dehydration, high salt, low potassium diets, carbonated fountain drinks, sugar, and anti-acids all play roles in oxalate crystal formation. It is very irresponsible to discourage people from a high green diet with no evidence that it is harmful when the benefits are substantial.
carrie
How about we focus on soda & sugar instead of beating on people who have a way healthier route going on, even if it’s not perfect?
Soda is consumed by billions more people in far larger quantites than green smoothies and soda truly is devasating for our health in a myriad of ways. It literally is killing us. You will do far more good for mankind if you concentrate on getting people to stop drinking soda than putting the fear of god into people who are eating lots of vegetables. Let’s get some focus on the things that are really doing the damage instead of getting people on the right track all fired up and confused.
Allie
Carrie – most, if not all, who follow this blog do not consume sodas and are well aware of the damage they cause.
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Deborah Stensvaag
http://www.ohf.org/docs/Oxalate2008.pdf
Harold Kamperman
This article is a little out of balance. Yes, oxalates are a building block for certain types of kidney stones, bladder stones etc (I spent my PhD. studies on substances combatting this) but the underlying causes are a lot more complex. When we make green smoothies we use maybe 6 small Swiss chard leaves for the whole family (8 of us). That is much less than the average meal serving. The benefits far outway the “negatives”. One factor this article completely ignore is the amount of oxalates in black teas. Should all of the South stop drinking sweet/unsweetened tea? A reference for the oxalates in tea is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12495262 BTW, the 6 cups of tea/day the article refers to are the small British style “cup and saucer” size, not the enormous glasses consumed here in the US!H
To compare relative oxalates content in foods the following link has done an adequate job … http://www.ohf.org/docs/Oxalate2008.pdf
Anyway, maybe the old saying “too much of a good thing …” holds true, so people with episodes of kidney stones should definitely take care. The rest of us would do well to do things in moderation. America has had too much of “super-size it”.
10 minutes ago · Like
joe
I swear I can’t seem to get ahead when it comes to nutrition. I don’t like vegetables, never eat them, don’t want them. I finally thought I had a work around by creating my own smoothies with veggies and fruits, I can chug it, be done with it, and at least get some nutrition. Now it sounds like that is going to kill me. Except if I eat a salad in moderation it won’t? What if I take that moderate salad and make a smoothie out of it? Is there something about the blending process that is more dangerous than just eating it all raw? And what is moderate? I was eating a breakfast sausage biscuit at MacDonalds before work, now I switched to a smoothie. Both sound like they’re going to kill me. So I still haven’t heard what the healthy path is, but it sounds like there is no middle ground. Is it any wonder why Americans are so unhealthy, we can’t seem to come to a consensus on what will kill us and what is a good course of action.
PattyLA
Different greens have higher or lower amounts of oxalates. Spinach and chard are extremely high. Turnip greens, arugula, kale, lettuce and mustard greens are quite low and can be enjoyed in large quantities.
If you really want to be healthy though you need to eat more than just leafy greens.
joe
I would like to continue to eat better, I’ve been feeling so much better than on my fastfood breakfast. But what is considered healthy and in what proportion. I have a vitamix so I make the drinks myself and have complete control over what goes in. Are high oxalate veggies right out, or are they still good in small infrequent batches. What would you or anyone reading this suggest for a monthly morning routine. For the past few months I’ve been mixing 1/2cup mixed dark berries (blue,black,rasp), 2 leaves of collard greens, with an optional banana or pineapple wedge, as well as a small spoon of coconut oil. Should I just vary the veggies I’m putting in on a weekly basis? Any particular veggies people recommend for health and more importantly that won’t cause more harm than good. And what proportions? I see too many terms like small, med, large, moderate, excessive, common sense…. Those don’t help. When someone comes to me and asks for advise on how to make their computer faster, I don’t tell them to get some RAM but use common sense on how much, or just get a moderate amount. Unhealthy folks like me have little to no understanding when it comes to nutrition, we just know we aren’t healthy. And thank you for that link, as someone who wants to live better I appreciate the help!
Karen Vaughan, MS Oiental Medicine
Joe, if you don’t have kidney stones or fibro, it isn’t a problem. Only 1.4% of people (20% of those who have calcium oxalate kidney stones) lack the intestinal bacteria to break down oxalates. Stay away from the antibiotics listed above, if you are worried take calcium citrate with your veggies, drink plenty of water and don’t live on unlimited spinach and rhubarb. Doesn’t sound like you are overdosing on the greens anyway.
It isn’t that green smoothies are a problem. In those people with an inability to break down oxalates, excessive high oxalate foods might -and the jury is still out with the research- do better with lower levels in their diet. (And with painful conditions may not want to chance eating high levels.) Oxalic acid in the correct amount helps with bowel movements and may even fight cancer, but too much can precipitate out and cause painful conditions.
Joe
Hey thanks for the help. I’m in the dark when it comes to nutrition, but am trying to turn that around, so it’s nice to know I’m not inadvertently causing more harm than good! I’ll start changing up the veggies I put in every month to give some variety too I suppose. I did notice one odd issue when I first started. I used only kale as my veggie, about 1.5 to 2 packed cups worth of it every day in my drink. After about a month of this, I started getting a tiny split in the tip of my tongue when I woke every morning. I stopped with kale and went to collard greens and no more split. Very odd, so I guess I’ll keep reading health forums and make sure I don’t supersize any one veggie!
Karen Vaughan, MS Oiental Medicine
There are a few gut bacteria that will degrade oxalates and the most promising is Oxalobacter formigenes which uses oxalates as its primary food. Other oxalate-degrading bacteria that have been isolated from human stool samples include Eubacterium lentum and Enterococcus faecalis. In contrast to O. formigenes, these species are able to use other foods than oxalate for growth, and whether they will degrade oxalate in the gut where alternatives are provided is not known. This research cited below does not mention Lactobacillis acidophilous which may also have a mild effect on oxalates.
20% of the population lacks Oxalobacter formigenes, the gut bacteria that degrades oxalates, possibly due to antibiotics listed below. It is being isolated to be sold as a prescription by Oxthera Products and also I understand by Ixion, but is currently not sold in the US. Unless it is available overseas (and I have no knowledge) the only way to get it now would be fecal implants from a healthy person without oxalate degrading problems, and that has a pretty substantial ick factor even if done with medical supervision.
The literature doesn’t specify whether O. formigenes is found in any probiotic foods. It is anerobic, so won’t grow readily in the presence of oxygen, Rice bran contains an enzyme that can break down oxalates though, so you might experiment with boiling food with rice bran (based on traditional Japanese bamboo shoot treatment.)
The article Oxalobacter formigenes and Its Potential Role in Human Health ( http://aem.asm.org/content/68/8/3841.full ) found that many of the antibiotics they studied can and do kill this microbe, with Doxycycline and clarithomycin being the worst:
doxycycline (the only nongeneric tetracycline studied)
clarithromycin (Biaxin)
chloramphenicol (Chloromycetin)
nalidixic acid (no longer used in US)
co-amoxiclav (Augmentin)
metronidazole (Flagyl)
polymyxin E (Colistin)
tetracycline
one strain of O. formigenes was sensitive to clindamycin (Cleocin)
Several of these are given for urinary or vaginal infections.
Avoiding these antibiotics may be more important than dietary changes while you build up a variety of gut flora.
frankie
Greens,in patricular leafy greens contain the highest levels of nitrate.Which protect the cardiovascular system from nitric oxide.Go look up The Hippocrates Health Institute,The Gerson Institute,The Budwig Diet.All of these alternative disease fighting diets contain veggies and juicing.Greens,especially chlorella,spirulina,wheatgrass,barley grass contain thousands of phytonutrients that help the body to detox and heal. Wheatgrass, for example ,is a blood bulider.It contains all of the vitamins and most of the minerals needed for human well being.Wheatgrass contains chlorophyll which is molecularly similar to hemoglobin. I believe that pastured meats,fish,broths,pastured chicken,pastured eggs,fermented cod liver oil,raw milk,raw cheese, are absolute staples to good health. But,I would be foolish not to include cancer fighting and health promoting greens.
Kerri
Who are you??
Do you have a degree in this stuff?
I mean, come on people. Are you taking her seriously?
Kiki Becerra Bacaro via Facebook
WATCH OUT, Annika Rockwell FoodforKidshealth just posted on the unhealthiness of Hummus, another current diet fad…let the assault begin!!
Ginger Bisharat
This article is unnecessarily dramatic. I can see oxalates being a concern for someone who has a pre-existing condition such as the ones you mention, and wants to drink nothing but green smoothies for an extended period of time. But the way your article is written suggests that no one should drink green smoothies. And your suggestion to avoid even salads of fresh greens because of oxalates is ridiculous. Kale, chard and the like are well-established to be of the highest nutritive value among all food on the planet AND the levels of oxalates are higher in other foods.* Not to mention that a kidney stone does not “destroy” your health – sure, it’s a problem and I wouldn’t wish it on anybody, but destroy is too strong a word. Hepatitis destroys health. AIDS destroys health. Cancer destroys health. A kidney stone is something a person can recover from and does not belong at the level you have placed it.
I feel sorry for people who let blogs like this one dictate what they feed their families. Children especially need the B vitamins and calcium found in leafy greens, and green smoothies are a great way to get them one of their two servings a day! How else are we to raise them to have healthy digestive systems?? By serving them whole foods with high nutritive value!!
*”Oxalate occurs in many plants, where it is synthesized via the incomplete oxidation of carbohydrates. Oxalate-rich plants include fat hen (“lamb’s quarters”), sorrel, and several Oxalis species. The root and/or leaves of rhubarb and buckwheat are high in oxalic acid.[8] Other edible plants that contain significant concentrations of oxalate include–in decreasing order–star fruit (carambola), black pepper, parsley, poppy seed, amaranth, spinach, chard, beets, cocoa, chocolate, most nuts, most berries, fishtail palms, New Zealand spinach (Tetragonia tetragonioides) and beans.[citation needed] Leaves of the tea plant (Camellia sinensis) contain among the greatest measured concentrations of oxalic acid relative to other plants. However the infusion beverage typically contains only low to moderate amounts of oxalic acid per serving, due to the small mass of leaves used for brewing.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalate)
Becky Mauldin, N.D.
While I love this blog, I find this particular post disturbing on many levels. The blanket statement that green smoothies are devastating to health is quite extreme, and most people do just fine adding green vegetables to smoothies for added nutrients. People need more creative ways to get more vegetables into their diets, and steering people away from greens is doing them a huge disservice!
Just because traditional cultures didn’t eat green smoothies doesn’t mean that we cannot. Traditional cultures also did not have environmental pollution like we do now. What worked for them just might not work for us. Nowadays, people need the more alkaline vegetables in their diet to achieve vibrant health.
Yes, oxalates can be a problem for some individuals, but they are not only found in green leafy vegetables. They are also found in buckwheat, cocoa, nuts, and many other foods. To single out only the green leafy vegetables is not giving your readers enough information.
FYI… If you are concerned about stones forming, just add some raw apple cider vinegar to the water that you drink, and this can help prevent kidney stones from forming in the first place.
Ultimately, each one of us needs to listen to our body. What works for someone, will not work for someone else. Your body is the ultimate guide to determine what food works for you and what does not.
Glori
What about wheatgrass? I just read candida book and it suggested eating wheatgrass daily to help get rid of yeast. What is your opinion. Thanks..
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I’ve been drinking wheatgrass IN MODERATION for 15 years (1-2 shots a week). Love the stuff. I did do a very short stint when I first started wheatgrass where I did a shot a day for about a month to speed up detoxification and then backed off to a moderate level since then. Like anything, just don’t overdo and go wild with it like green smoothie junkies do with their green drink of choice. Even healthy things can become unhealthy when they become addictive, excessive, “gotta do it everyday” type behaviors.
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David
This is an alarmist article. I find it more harmful than good that anyone would elicit alarm for consuming food sources rich in nutrition, antioxidants and vitamins by default. For most people, eating the spectrum of leafy greens is incredibly healthy. The trade-off to not eating greens over paranoia of issues associated with an oxalate diet is far more of an issue to me than avoiding them. If you’ve been eating greens and you feel great, don’t stop over this article, pay attention to your body. I imagine coffee, alcohol and fast food also contribute to oxalate build ups. And what about balance? Is it not possible to consume high oxalate greens for the benefit of all the wonderful nutrition value and then add other things in your diet that combat oxalate build ups? Aloe Vera inner leaf gel/juice for example, i’ve heard is great at combatting oxalate build ups. I personally want all those antioxidants, vitamins and life healing properties from the greens and I have not experienced any issue other than health and happiness from it.
Susan Owens
Some important studies to read to find out what just adding spinach to the diet can do can be found here:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/18/3/233.pdf
and here:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/17/6/557.pdf
and there are more of them, but this is what you can find already on the web.
In these studies adding spinach to the diet was compared to adding the lower oxalate green, turnip greens.
One of these studies said:
If to a diet of meat, peas, carrots and sweet potatoes, rela
tively low in calcium but permitting good though not maximum
growth and bone formation, spinach is added to the extent of
about 8% to supply 60% of the calcium, a high percentage
of deaths occurs among rats fed between the age of 21 and
90 days. Reproduction is impossible. The bones are ex
tremely low in calcium, tooth structure is disorganized and
dentine poorly calcified. Spinach not only supplies no avail
able calcium but renders unavailable considerable of that of
the other foods. Considerable of the oxalate appears in the
urine, much more in the feces.
The same study said:
By the
time the age of 90 days was reached, five animals on the
spinach diet had died while all those on the diet containing
turnip greens were in excellent condition. The average
weight at 90 days of age of animals receiving spinach was
134 gm. while of those receiving turnip greens it was 205.”
Take a look and read the studies yourself and see what you think.
Whoever reads these studies really might prefer adding turnip greens rather than spinach for your smoothies!
Beth
Susan Owen, thank you so much for taking the time to make several informative responses in this matter. I’m encouraged to have this new information that may provide insight and answers for someone in my life who for many years has suffered from fibromyalgia as well as vulvodynia, arthritis, fatigue, and something that led to a laminectomy in the lower spine. Could all of these be related? If so, could they potentially be addressed and improved by following the LOD protocol? I just joined the yahoo group and see many documents in the files — are there ones in particular that I should look at first?
Your generosity in sharing your expertise is very much appreciated.
Beth
Heidi @ Low Oxalate Info
Beth
I used to have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, bladder pain, and severe arthritis in my knees, All of these are completely cured after a number of years on the low oxalate diet. I also have vulvar vestibulitis and it is about 80% better on the LOD. Oxalate problems are real, yet often overlooked by the medical community. I imagine your loved one could really benefit from a low oxalate diet.
I don’t agree that everyone needs to be on a low oxalate diet, but there is a lot of evidence that lower oxalate greens such as dino kale, turnip greens and mustard greens are a lot healthier than spinach! I would definitely suggest people err on the side of caution or at least read about oxalate-related symptoms, so they know what to watch out for if it becomes a problem for them.
Beth
Thank you, Heidi, for this and your other responses. And for pointing out your excellent and informative blog to us.
Susan Owens
Conor, and others,
Our paper in the European Journal of Paediatric Neurology was conducted in such a way to address a myth that is “out there” that the first sign of oxalate being high in the body is kidney stones. I found out years ago that doctors and scientists assumed that was so, but I also could see that no one had tested it. I attended a long professional development conference on kidney stones and learned that issues local to the kidney is what causes certain people to be at risk for kidney stones. People with kidney stones have about the same amount of oxalate in their urine as everyone else, Something ELSE makes them vulnerable there.
Because that belief has been so pervasive that kidney stones will be the first sign of an oxalate problem, as of today, almost 100% of oxalate scientists are kidney doctors and by talking to them, I’ve learned that they have been brushing off problems oxalate might have caused in their patients in other organ systems. They would just tell the patient those other issues were unrelated.
This is why our study addressed indiectly whether oxalate can be present in the body in dangerous levels when there is no evidence or even risk of developing kidney stones. The data clearly leads to that conclusion, and the same conclusion likely applies to other patient groups as well….groups that have never had their oxalate tested because of low suspicion.
Kidney doctors use a test called the BRI (Bonn risk index) to assess how likely someone is to develop kidney stones. If you are interested, you can read about it here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925400508008332, here, http://www.indianjurol.com/article.asp?issn=0970-1591;year=2011;volume=27;issue=2;spage=301;epage=302;aulast=Dwivedi, and here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1805047/
The BRI test works like this: You take a urine sample, and in measured amounts add more oxalate to the sample until oxalate starts to crystalize out. The more oxalate it takes to get to the point of crystallization, the lower the risks of developing kidney stones.
The Bonn risk index when it was applied to the children with autism in our study showed that they had virtually NO risk of developing kidney stones. That was not because they were low in oxalate. They were high. The study found their blood and urine oxalate was as high in some of these children as other scientists had found in children with primary hyperoxaluria. That’s a genetic disease that affects one in a million people. It can be fatal because of problems that develop in the body from excess oxalate being stored in tissues..
The children with autism were two and half times higher than control children in urine and three times higher in blood, but they had virtually no kidney stone risk and none of them had kidney stones as was determined in the hospital where the tests took place.
Our study also found that the two compartments in these children didn’t “agree”. There was a sixteen fold difference in the ratio of blood to urine oxalate in the children with autism. which means you cannot measure oxalate in one place and assume that tells you what its levels are in the other place.
Only one child with autism overlapped with any of the control children in both blood and urine. That is out of 36 children with autism.
So, Conor, the concern about oxalate is not just about kidney stones. I have now seen testing for people with all sorts of disorders where oxalate has ended up a major issue, and reducing oxalate from its previous levels has helped people regain their health.
Readers here just need to be aware that some people may develop problems who try the high oxalate smoothies. We don’t all share the same risks, but oxalate seems to be related to a lot of chronic conditions, especially ones that involve pain. It can negatively effect sleep, growth, energy, anemia, skin issues, bone composition and more. For people who find that their health does not get better with the green smoothies when they include high oxalate veggies, there is a very logical reason why that may be so.. This is certainly something that can be confirmed with very objective diagnostic testing, but not if people avoid the testing to find out…
Susan
Erin
I’m sorry but this article does not seem to be well written at all.
“Cook your veggies” “Throw out the cooking water” “Serve your veggies with butter” “Minimize greens”
I don’t agree with practically anything this article states.
However, freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.
Susan Owens
Saibah, please know that I appreciate and am intrigued by your story, and wonder what is different in your body and in the about 4,000 women or so in the Vulvar Pain Foundation who found reducing oxalate was the solution to their vulvodynia. I am not at all doubting your story, but am wondering why your experience is so different from theirs.
One reason may be that you have different flora that are more adapted to a high oxalate diet, and detoxify the oxalate you are eating for you….microbes like oxalobacter formigenes. Lack of this microbe has been one of the repeated findings in cystic fibrosis. Many of them that develop oxalate problems with that diease have lacked oxalate degrading flora in their stool. I’m still working on getting this test that shows the oxalate degrading capacity of the flora to get picked up by a commerical lab.
Saibah, I’m not at all against green smoothies, but they don’t have to be high in oxalate. It is simply a matter of which veggies you put into the blender. There are many low oxalate green foods and other fruits and veggies to make a quite healthy low oxalate drink.
Oxalate trafficking in the body is tied to transporters that regulate many things intestinal. The pancreas releases enzymes to help digestion, but its function is known to be somewhat compromised in conditions where oxalate is known to be a problem, like cystic fibrosis and celiac sprue, for example. The release from the pancreas of digestive enzymes involves transporters that might be negatively affected by oxalate being too high in that organ.
For that reason, maybe just substituting lower oxalate veggies in your smoothie might make it where you would no longer need the digestive enzymes any more.
One way to tell if your body is storing oxalate is to cut its levels back, and see if the body starts to detoxify.
I don’t recommend suddenly going to low oxalate for someone who has been very high in oxalate, as the results of that can be an overly rapid detoxification which can be miserable, Because our project has helped almost 5,000 people with this detox process, we have learned that people should only slowly reduce oxalate to eliminate the negative symptoms that occur as tissues release oxalate that has been stored. This typically starts happening a few days into reducing oxalate.
If there has been no absorption and storage of oxalate, then reducing the oxalate in the diet may not produce changes. Some people make oxalate endogenously (in their own cells), and they may not have the detox reaction because they have that different source of oxalate that is still there. Whether you are making your own oxalate or not can be determined by lab testing by the detection of two markers.
Saibah Wayne
Hi Susan,
Actually maybe the other reason why I didn’t or don’t experience any problems on a high oxalate diet is maybe because I do use a lot of spirulina and chlorella too which have been known to reduce high oxalates also while I was transitioning to the raw food vegan diet I was doing colonics to help clean the colon which can have a high amount of backed up fecal matter from over the years which can hinder any progress one is looking for. I strongly believe that a clean colon only promotes good health as long as it is maintained and taken care of while eating healthy foods that are high in enzymes. I also use a lot of raw coconut oil which I use as an antifungal, it works miracles for vulvydina. I used to use it topically and also injest it. I also use Oil of Oregano another powerful anti fungal which I add to my green juices just to maintain and keep candida albicans in check. I also take a vegan probiotic to maintain healthy intestinal and vaginal flora.
I did an experiment where I ate some animal products( dairy, meat) and immediately my system was in chaos, it flared up by getting immediately acidic and I got the vulvydina plus a yeast infection and swollen gums plus I was feeling lethargic and in pain. I immediately went on a juice fast and also had a colonic while also ingesting noni juice.
I strongly believe in eating a diet high in alkaline foods especially the green leafy veggies because they are truly medicine for me. I believe that the high oxalates would not affect anyone who is vegan but would for a person who continues to eat animal products while ingesting raw greens.
Kim
That reminds me… GREEN SMOOTHIE TIME!!
A very rare amount of people have this. This might also be that they aren’t 100% raw vegan, but eat a S.A.D. diet otherwise. A friend of mine who has/had fibromialigia went raw vegan for a few months and had great relief. I had hypothyroid (low thyroid) and when I went raw, with most of my meals consisting of green smoothies or salads, my thyroid levels are back to normal and I lost weight. I am now off meds
Please think before you read!
Saibah Wayne
Hi Kim, I totally agree with you. I actually even did a green juice fast this weekend to detox
Veronica
So if I switch the spinach for romaine lettuce, my smoothies will still be okay?
Kate
I’m really curious about whether these cautionary tales apply to green juicing with celery and cucumbers and carrots? I feel this keeps me so regular – it’s gotta be good.
Sharon Burress
Finally! Some one with nutritional good sense dares to bring up the truth about the ubiquitous green smoothie. Thank you!
Vitality Enthusiast via Facebook
I spent about 20 minutes reading all of the comments on here after I shared your post yesterday. Amazing how heated people can get! I wanted to commend you for being brave and sharing information that some people were unable to open their minds to receive. I never took you as saying green smoothies are all bad, or that eating copious amounts of fast food is a better choice. I thought you used sound rationale to bring another perspective to one of the “latest crazes”. Thank you. I don’t believe, for me, green smoothies are a problem, but also don’t do them daily, and rotate the ingredients. (Mine often tend to be more purple anyways <3 ) I appreciate, however, that you have presented a perspective that will have value for some, and could be that "aha" moment in their quest for vitality, connecting some dots they had never considered. I certainly now have this perspective in my brain should I ever be concerned about oxalates. I'm always here to support anyone thinking critically about health. Shame on anyone who commented in a way that invalidates the considerable time and energy you have invested sharing your own critical thinking and passion for health. I truly doubt many of the less-than-respectful commentators spend NEAR the time or energy exploring vast amount of information, from multiple respectable sources, as you do to generate the posts you so graciously share with us. Again, thank you! Keep up the good work, you are an inspiration! (That doesn't mean I'm going to stop drinking green smoothies….haha)
Saibah Wayne
I was diagnosed with candidiasis and after trying all kinds of conventional medications including antifungals which didn’t work, the only thing that works for me now for the past two straight years is becoming a raw food vegan and my main focus is juicing green leafy vegetables and green smoothies. Please do your research before you start blasting the green smoothies.
Saibah Wayne
Forgot to mention that I also used to suffer from vulvodynia before I started the raw vegan lifestyle and since then I have never experienced vaginal pain and vaginal dryness since I started on my raw vegan path actually sex is great and has never been better. I used to also have terrible body odor and that is in the past now. Green leafy juices and smoothies are my main medicine because they purify the blood while alkalizing the body and preventing viruses including bacterial and fungal infections. I also take a vegan probiotic and enzymes to help with digestion
Kim
Thank you!! Most people will believe anything they read! Can we say gullible?!
Allie
Saibah and Kim – why the need to supplement with digestive enzymes and probiotics?
As you attack others for the way they choose to eat you discredit why they have moved on from veganism – I messed up my gut over time doing the raw diet. I did feel great for awhile, but then got sick. Now I have to steam most any veggie I eat, except for lettuce….and yep, digestive enzymes are now required. I’m unable to break down the cellulose in the raw veggies and fruits.
People have searched out what is best for them, many have moved from the low fat , vegan based diet to wapf for a reason, and not because they are gullible, but because they have researched and found what nutrients are lacking in thier sick bodies. Believe me, it was a 180 for me…i researched traditional foods for a year before diving in…I hadn’t had butter in years, it was definitely a strong vegan mindset I had to push past. This was after a holistic nutritionist told me by body was sadly lacking in nutrients found only in animal products.
Please, you do not know eveyone’s nutritional story who follow this blog and others like it, we are people looking to restore and maintain health, just like you. Can we just agree to disagree on the way that is done for each individual and drop the attacks and ugly tone?
Susan Owens
Sarah,
When an Aspergillus infection makes enough oxalate to cause a rise in systemic levels of oxalate, the infection has already taken over most of the lung and is generally fatal. I have scoured the literature and have found absolutely NO evidence that candida makes even measurable amounts of oxalate. Dr. Shaw heard me lecture in Spain and saw a slide where I showed that candida (and now I know some bacteria) may metabolize arabinose to form d-erythroascorbic acid, which is a look-alke compound to vitamin C. At about the same rate as vitamin C, it can be converted into oxalate. It provides no more threat than that. Even so, oxalate is known to insert itself into carboxylase enzymes and impair their activity. When these enzymes are broken because of a genetic glitch, it impairs the immune defense against yeast and it is often seen that these patients may develop problems with candida. So the arrow of causality is much more likely going the other direction, that oxalate increasing in the body may spur on candida infections. The experience of people in the Vulvar Pain Foundation and those in our Autism Oxalate Project at ARI is consistent with this view, as many lose their tendency towards yeast infections as they reduce oxalate in the diet. People can get more information at http://www.lowoxalate.info and its associated yahoogroup, Trying_Low_Oxalates@yahoogroups.com. Also, some of your readers may be interested in reading an article on oxalate in autism that was published in the European Journal of Paediatric Neurology that you can read about here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21911305. I’m one of the authors.
Amanda
I think this is so controversial because people still don’t view food as medicine. Food _is_ medicine. What you eat matters and if you’re eating the wrong things (like taking the wrong medication or eating GMO and processed foods) you will not be well. Listen to your body and don’t just jump on fad solutions because “Hey, it’s natural. It can’t be bad, right?” Lots of things found in nature are not good for us or are only good in moderation. Think about what you’re eating and keep a journal if you have to so you may note symptoms.
Thanks to THHE and thanks to those who have an open mind.
Deborah Jackson via Facebook
Articles like this only further confuse people who already don’t get enough healthy food in their diets. Green smoothies have had a healing and positive impact on my health but we are not created from molds. We must discover and live our own truths…
Deborah Jackson via Facebook
Articles like this only further confuse people who already don’t get enough healthy food in their diets. Green smoothies have had a healing and positive impact on my health but we are not created from molds. We must discover and live our own truths…
Kim
Articles like these are written by people who have a superiority complex. They see things like the raw vegan diet or drinking green smoothies a fad and with little to no research, they write something that state an exaggerated view on the worst case scenario and add in some of their own ‘facts’ to sweeten the pot. I really hope people aren’t ignorant enough to believe any of this hoohaw
Elainie
Totally agree Kim.
Conor S,
This is an interesting piece purely as it provided a bold counter balance to a particular fad that probably isn’t helping anyone’s health all that much, That said, this artlcle has really gone quite bit too far the other way. Like everything else, the odd green smoothie is probably very good for most people. Demonising oxalates as being “devastating” (what a stong word!) to the health is frankly totally OTT! Oxalates in moderation tend to be bound out by calcium in the diet and once one is adequately hydrated, the chances of kidney stones are slight. Few foods in nature provide only benefits when taken in quantity and there’s often a trade-off to consider. (Quick example: there’s hardly a food or drink that’s good for the body that isn’t harmful to the teeth..)
The fact is that many of these green foods are incredbily healthful in a whole host of other ways providing a range of nutrients, B Vits, magnesium etc. that are very frequently lacking in the typical Western diet. On balance, the oxalate risk is scarcely a factor for anybody of normal health. Personally I’d rather live to be 100 and take a tiny risk of having to get ultra sound blasting of a kidney stone at about 90, than die at 70 due to nutrient deficiencies with a fine set of kidneys getting buried with me …
Jane
Hi Sarah! Thanks for this article! As someone who occasionally enjoys a green smoothie, and as someone who’s mother had the first kidney stones of her life (while drinking green smoothies), I’m very interested in the effects that the green smoothie movement has had on folks. From the responses here, it would seem that the results are mixed. I’m wondering if you would be willing to cite some sources (medical journals, studies, etc.) for further reading. Again, thank you for bringing this up!
Beth
Wow, I have learned so much in the last few days delving into this topic. There is much to learn. Some helpful sites:
The VP (Vulvar Pain) Foundation, http://www.thevpfoundation.org/
Low Oxalate Info, http://www.lowoxalate.info
Trying Low Oxalates Yahoo group, health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/
And Patty’s blog combining GAPS and low oxalate info:
http://www.lovingourguts.com
Pingback: Backing it Up with Science – Can Green Smoothies Really Destroy Health? | OxVox.com
Rachelle
Hey Sarah,
What do you think of steaming spinach in butter and then eating the whole thing. Thats how my family grew up eating spinach and we all loved it. Thanks
PattyLA
That approach will have no effect on the oxalate content of the spinach and you are likely to consume quite a lot since it shrinks so much when cooked.
annie
pretty much all foods has its pros and cons, such as grains with its phytates. if one were to avoid any type of food that has problems, you might as well starve to death. i don’t think green smoothies are all that bad considering its a great way to increase veggie intake. my family enjoys drinking them as an supplement to their diet. besides the info that is presented isn’t new; one can find that out when researching green smoothies.
Jeanmarie
Good points, Tanya. Interesting about the need for calcium to balance the oxalates. Reminds me of how calcium must be balanced with phosphorous, and magnesium. And how if you don’t have vitamins D and K in sufficient amounts, your body may deposit the calcium in soft tissue instead of the bones. And if you don’t have enough Vitamin A to balance the D, toxicity is possible (and vice-versa). Anytime we get our chemical and nutrient balance out of whack, especially for long periods, we are at risk of ill health. And as you point out, if we can’t digest our food and assimilate the nutrients, we can’t keep our gut flora healthy, and vice-versa. Just like muscles come in pair of opposing muscles to make multi-directional movement possible (biceps and triceps, etc), nutrients need to be in balance with each other.
Interesting article, and interesting reactions. Some people seem to have read this is more black-and-white than I did. Excess consumption of oxalates MIGHT be a problem for those with the symptoms listed and who drink lots of green smoothies, but I don’t think the point was that no one should ever eat a green, leafy vegetable at all. Common sense, people.
Jeanmarie
What’s a nutrion advisor? And what does the Bible have to do with it?
Jeanmarie
Wow, this could explain a lot of mysteries for me! I don’t eat most vegetables raw, but we have been relying on leafy green salad mixes a lot. Lately I’ve been having a big salad for lunch every day. I don’t have broccoli, kale, chard, etc, raw, but those are our favorite vegetables and we eat them steamed or sautéed regularly. Wow, this is a lot to digest. Thanks for provoking my thoughts and the discussion… over 600 comments and counting!
Joyce
Hi Sarah, I posted this yesterday, if you have a moment to answer I would appreciate it.
Someone mentioned a blog you wrote about whey protein powder and neuropathy (sp?) I couldn’t find it in the archives; can you please post a link for it?
Thanks,
Joyce
wendy
I know someone that had horrible kidney stones from eating lots of greens and blueberries. She was told that she should have been consuming lots of lemon too. Has anyone heard anything about lemon helping?
Jmr
Wow! I just read this article and, as is so often my response to this blog, thought, “That’s really interesting. I didn’t know that. I’ll have to look into that further.” And then I saw there were were nearly 600 comments.
After reading them, my thought is, “I fear for the future of our world. The vast majority of these people are violent and insane. It’s a blog. It’s a WAPF-based blog. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. If you don’t agree, don’t follow it. Really?…shock, fear, horror, insults, calls for Sarah to be silenced? It’s a smoothie. Drink it if you want. Don’t don’t drink it if you don’t want. A smoothie will neither save nor destroy humanity. But this extreme reaction to a post suggesting drinking tons of raw spinach may not be super healthy makes me understand how we end up with riots, wars and holocausts. Really, you’d throw out the constitutional right to free speech just because you disagree with the speech? If someone disagrees with your speech, should you be silenced? Is that right? How did you all even find this blog when you clearly have no idea what it is about?”
Sue B
hear, hear!
Common Sense Roolz!
Sophia
Greens are good. END of story. This chick is wack.
Claire
The fact that God accepted Abel’s sacrifice and not Cain’s had nothing to do with whether it was an animal sacrifice or not. Abel’s sacrifice was made in faith, Cain’s was not (Hebrews 11:4).
Ingrid J
Surely its like another fad that some have taken to the extreme, there cant be anything wrong with having the odd smoothie when you feel alittle unwell, and need alittle boost of vitamens and minerals or simply when you just feel like it. There is nearly always something we can find with some food item that we ingest that is’nt good. The odd time that I have a glass of carrot juice or a smoothie, I always feel better; generally it is with the thought of providing fibre and reducing acid in the body but I always put 2 tablespoons of good quality Olive Oil with it. Would this help with the oxalate situation? I have a keen interest in health issues and my conclusion is ‘the closest to natural the better’ and while avoiding things that obviously upset you, a well balanced diet seems to be key.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Of course .. someone with common sense who actually read the post and didn’t knee jerk on that title! Hurray!
High oxalate veggies in moderation is of course a fine way to approach the situation!
Jesse
Hahahaha…Is this a serious article? This has to be a joke. Wow.
Eric C
Let me get this straight – green smoothies might be a problem for 20% of the population, so NO ONE SHOULD EVER EAT THEM? Not exactly solid logic, even if the claims here are true. But I did enjoy the hysteria.
The only good advice here is to find out what does work your body, and don’t jump on any fads without checking into it.
Karen Vaughan, L. Ac.
And it is more like 1.4% of the population, not 20%. Calculation above.
Don Reltuck
I juice 4-5 times a week: carrots, kale, turnip greens, chard, collard greens, jicama, daikon, cabbage, aloe vera (fresh cut) apple, beets, cauliflower, parsley, tomato, broccoli. No problems for me, and my girlfriend is losing weight and eliminating whereas before she suffered from constipation. We also eat tossed salads with the kitchen sink thrown in. The above essay is food for thought, but I think my previous diet was a bit veggie-poor so this seems to be a good way to get fresh goodies.
Kelle
That’s a great combo of goodies for smoothie Don! I’ll have to try some of those!
Karen Vaughan, L. Ac.
I left soy off the list of foods that people with hyperoxularia may need to avoid. The list is pretty short though, and adding calcium-rich foods at the same time will help.
One caveat on the lists of foods: they are based on urinary excretion of oxalates and you may actually be better off with them out than in- but you need lots of water so they flow out and don’t form stones or attack other organs.
Kelle
THANK YOU KAREN! for your words of rationality and wisdom!
Karen Vaughan, L. Ac.
It isn’t 20% of all people who are sensitive to oxalates, it is 20% of those who produce oxalate kidney stones ( in turn 80% of those who form kidney stones according to even Shaw.) (http://www.ushealth.org/urology/oxalate/11252) Since 8.8% of Americans have a history of kidney stones, this translates to 1.4% of Americans who are vulnerable.
Some have an enzymatic deficiency called hyperoxaluria and those may possibly benefit from reducing dietary oxalate but it won’t cure their condition since you can produce oxalic acid even from Vitamin C. Some have enteric hyperoxalauria from more intake than their GI tract can deal with and may need to lower spinach, rhubarb, purslane, amaranth, quinoa, parsley, chives (not that you’d eat the quantity in the last two) and lambsquarters and probably late season nettles and horsetail. (Oxalicacidinfo.com) These would be the people with weak digestion and huge vegetable intakes- except note that vegetarians have lower rates of stones with large veggie intakes, so the dietary intake theory is speculative. Other individuals in this group may have too low calcium, calcium not taken with meals or too much dietary fat (not sure about the last one, from UW urology.) If you take some, preferably raw, milk or high calcium foods with your oxalate-rich foods, you can bind the oxalates.
A 24 hour urinary oxalate excretion test combined with information about calcium intake can diagnose whether you need to restrict oxalates or increase calcium or both.
Other strategies include high frequent Vitamin B6 which reduces oxalic acid formation and probiotic therapy with Oxalobacter bacteria. Note that we need oxalic acid in reasonable amounts as it helps move the bowels and prevents cancer, but some people get too much.
Christine
What about wheat grass shots? Thank you for all the great info and your reply.
Chris Bishop
That is why it is recommended to rotate the greens daily…so you won’t build up too much oxalic acid from any one type of green. I have been witness to literally dozens of people who consume these daily and noone has had any problem, so long as they rotate their greens. I personally have been on them for over a year and have had nothing but positive results. This article is not balanced or fair.
Michelle
wow, I was really impressed with this post! I really had no idea. It’s amazing how we think something can be so great for our health, when it can actually do harm.
Thanks for sharing
Aimee
What about juicing these leafy greens? Still high levels of oxolates??
TC
Oxalic acid and alkaloid poisoning problems will come if you eat raw spinach consecutively over and over again, or any other type of green for that matter. If you simply get a wide variety of greens to put in your smoothies and constantly rotate them its impossible for you to have this problem. I never eat the same green 2 days in a row I am always switching the type of green and fruit every single day.
GREENS I USE
– Kale
– Dinosaur Kale
– Purple Kale
– Rainbow Chard
– Green Chard
– Dandelion Greens
– Parsley
– Cilantro
– Spinach
– Bok Choy
– Watercress
– Carrot Greens
– Collared Greens
Each one of these greens has a different and unique balance of vitamins and minerals which all add a piece to the puzzle of nutrition and our bodies. When you blend the greens your are breaking the nutritional cell walls which release more nutrients. When we chew our food the chances are most of us cannot chew our food to break these cell walls. What better more simplistic way to get this range of vitamins from all these different types of plants?
Green smoothies are designed to get health into your regime in a very simple and fast way so that you can get on with the rest of your life and not have to worry about it so much. Forget about your “identification with green smoothies” the reason why people talk about them so much and “praise” them is because the difficult battle with nutrition just became that much more SIMPLE AND EASY!!
Why wouldn’t you go on a rant about this to all your friends? There are people who are simply passionate about food and health and some people that just want something simple to add to their lives that will give them the vitality to carry on in other areas.
Green smoothies are the answer either way in my opinion.
Have A Wonderful Day!
Amanda
This was an awesome resource as to what we can substitute for the higher level greens thank you so much for this TC!
Amanda
Do you have any recipes for green smoothies I can try TC? I am really trying to get my family on a alkaline and healthy road and these smoothies are the easiest way I can get my little one to eat her veges.
TC
@Amanda
Go to this website and sign up.
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/recipes/
It is a free web app which has all sorts of different recipes for green smoothies.
The best thing I can recommend is usually only use 1 or 2 types of greens, usually just one but if you want to throw parsley, dandelions, and cilantro as a side green it works well. Then use 1 to 2 types of fruits, I usually put a tiny bit of juice in mine Ceres is a good brand, put ice as well to make them cold. Keep it simple, simplicity is the key to making them not taste bad and you dont want to cancel any of the vitamins out of one another
Juice that works well (the Ceres brand is really good and easy to find)
– Pear
– Guava
– Berry
– Mango
Sample 1 (All time favorite simple recipe)
Kale
Mangoes
Guava Juice
Water
Ice
Sample 2
Rainbow Chard
Carrot Greens
Cucumbers
Mangoes
Peaches
Guava Juice/Water/Ice
The last thing I can recommend is to get a book called
Green For Life 2nd Edition by Victoria Boutenko
This will give you a lot of information about greens and green smoothie nutrition.
Cheers
Hope that helps!!
Amanda
TC you rock thank you so much!!!
Kevin S
Also if you’d like not to use juice, putting a banana or pear into your shake really sweetens things up and mask the chlorophyll very nicely
Jessica
This is very interesting – I am a holistic chef and curious about using these ingredients in green juices? (Maybe you have an article on here- I’ve yet to look around). Also **is there any way to cleanse out excessive oxalates?**
Many thanks for your information!
Carolyn
Thank you for the information Sara. I am curious if you have any information on juicing and oxalates, specifically does juicing remove oxalates? I do not juice regulary, but the reason I ask is because for many people in critical states of health, juicing provides significant benefit. I have always believed that juicing was best for detoxification or providing large amounts of nutrients to the body in critical cases such as cancer, but a daily smoothie (I don’t advocate lots of kale, etc. either) was best for health maintanence…mostly because it is a great avenue for sneaking in the cod liver oil and other supplements. So my curiosity about oxalates has been struck and I am wondering if juicing removes them, otherwise I would think people would not see such great benefits from juicing. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
Kiki Becerra Bacaro via Facebook
Just wondering if it’s worth substituting for lettuces since I thought lettuce has very little nutritional value…
Jennifer Bacaro via Facebook
Im curious why so many of you are fans of this page if you are clueless about the fats and cooked veggies thing. You’d think some of you birthed the freaking green veggies yourself with how you’re defending it. I’ve seen political and religious debates that were more peaceful than this. Crazy.
Amanda
So I found this Blog this morning while typing “Low carb Green smoothies” in google, then once I saw this post I got stuck reading the argument for hours (hehe very interesting). The passion that every one of you sparkle with, inspires me. It seems people have lost there passion for health so even though everyone is disagreeing it’s a beautiful disagreement! I think where the argument has went wrong is, while everyone is searching for the truth or at least understanding of our bodies, we all have our own interpretations of it sorta like the bible and religion. I notice the writer (sara) is very passionate about her beliefs, and loves to help people and feels very strongly about that which is amazing and wonderful, but not once has she taken a speck of advice from any of the posters, just keeps standing her ground with no acknowledgement that she just might not know everything and maybe we are all here to learn from each other??….. Yes Sara, you are probably a dictionary of amazing information and I respect that, but the core foundation of *Human communication* is listening, being heard, and understood, but while we are listening, hearing you, and understanding you not one of your readers who disagree with your post being heard and understood by you. Instead of acknowledging that everyone has value and that some of the things they are saying might be able to be added to your post, you just shun every critic instead of validate the fact that you might have made just a few small of errors in your post and fix them. Maybe even thank these people for helping your post be successful and helpful by adding in a couple of fixes such as sizes, substitutes, or how to’s. If it weren’t for these critics I was about to give up on all greens because your post scared the bajeezes out of me with this oxidation stuff, but now I understand it’s all a matter of perception and I thank those critics for that as well as you for taking the time to write the article. Also instead of telling your children everyone else is bad and that you won’t let them get under your skin, maybe show them how everyone’s voice matters and that you will learn and listen to them with the same respect that your followers give you. There are many people out there that live off of McDonalds and Burger King so if they add a green smoothie to there day, I’m pretty sure they might be taking a step in the right direction and maybe you can add some exceptions to your blog about that. Your correct that this is your blog and that we don’t have to read it, but don’t you want us to? Don’t you wanna help us and all of us come together to help each other live better? If you do, then those words just create a volatile defensive environment that is actually way more harmful to our health then any f the leafy greens we can eat. I bet more people had there blood pressure up by reading this article then McDonald’s could have done in 3 days. So maybe re-evaluate what your providing here and if you are here to help others, and if so, listen with your heard instead of your defensive side then things will make a lot more sense to you. Oh and Love your passion for health, I have a Autistic little girl that’s 10 and was just diagnosed and I’m on my own journey to helping her. Thanks Amanda
Audry
Amanda, I think this is a fantastic, insightful response. You are right on the money – Sarah is very knowledgeable about many things, but like anyone she is also often incomplete and sometimes flat-out wrong, but she NEVER accepts or acknowledges ANY criticism, even if it is offered in a constructive and helpful way. This is why I’ve stopped reading her blog as regularly as I used to. I hope she reads your comment (and mine) and takes your kind suggestions to heart!
Elainie
Wow- she never accepts any criticism? I think the WAP people are so self righteous about their diet and just write off anything that has to do with veganism etc; and green smoothies are huge in raw vegan world. Seems like they just want to discount it and redirect people to a *traditional* diet.
Angela
Amanda, that is precicely what I was trying to say earlier. This is very typical of her character sadly. I can only guess that this character is going to be worsened in her children sad to say. I’m all for learning from her wisdom, but she has a mentality a lot like many doctors and religious people; she can’t see past her own perception and biasis. She really is her own God! You Amanda sound like many Agnostic and Atheist people who unlike her apparently, realize their humble place in this universe is to be a part of a community. We need eachother for accountability when we just can’t see things, and should welcome people’s well meaning advice. We never know who can teach us something. Unfortunately Sarah has made it clear that she knows who can teach or correct her. . . . No one!
Rachel B
Angela, Thank you for this. “You Amanda sound like many Agnostic and Atheist people who unlike her apparently, realize their humble place in this universe is to be a part of a community.” Non-believers have an undeserved bad reputation and it does my heart good to read things like this which are so true.
I love my grass-fed and pastured animal food and delicious butter, but I’m going to also keep eating all of my various greens in many forms which many years ago helped me heal chronic asthma.
watchmom3
Do you realize that you are talking about someone in very hateful tones as if she can’t hear you? WHY? Just leave quietly. I would ask that you take note of the viciousness of the attacks on Sarah, just for differing in opinion? That really makes no sense. If one has a position and allows others to comment, then whether or not this person chooses to accept someone’s criticism (debateable whether it is constructive) should be that person’s business, not anyone else’s. (This includes you) No one can read another person’s mind, so it would be wise for those who are self-appointed, to stop. Just enjoy the blog of your choosing. I am.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
You are quite correct .. I am completely immoveable on things where the only argument folks have is based on a modern fad that is selling a lifestyle not health and using slanted “science” that has not had the benefit of decades or centuries (such as traditional diet has) to discern its insidious, health robbing effects such as a green smoothie habit. Many things science thought were true were proved over time to be completely and utterly wrong. Consuming large and obscene quantities of greens in green smoothies on a frequent basis for years on end is one of these. Be a statistic if you like .. I choose to go with the tried and true
If you want a wishy washy … here’s what I’m doing today based on the hype of the moment type of blog, there are plenty of those to go around.
Sue B
I’m with you, Sarah. Common sense does not require a degree.
clay
Quoting Sarah: “I am completely immoveable on things where the only argument folks have is based on a modern fad that is selling a lifestyle not health and using slanted “science” that has not had the benefit of decades or centuries (such as traditional diet has) to discern its insidious, health robbing effects such as a green smoothie habit.”
Sarah, firstly, there are more than enough common sensed and scientifically more informed and precise comments in your opponents’ answers than in your article to stop being “immovable”.
Your rhethorics in this case are defensive, childishly stubborn and won’t serve your position at all.
second, the diet “had the benefit of decades or centuries ” has proven to make civilisation sicker than humanity had been before that.
If you had informed yourself of Boutenko’s theory and reasons behind the blending of leafs, namely the incapacity of our degenerated teeth to actually extract the nutritional elements out of the cellulose, the subsequent change and increase in healthy chloric acid in the stomach leading to a far healthier and more thorough digestion and less bacterial content going to the intestins, he benefits of the highly concentrated energy content of cloropyll, the benefits of raw food in general…you wouldn’t call the green smoothies “a fad”. Insidious, health robbing?? Excuse me, but your statements are misinformed, highly polemic and unreasonable, disguised as no-bullshit hard facts but not backed up at all!
Why don’t you just try green smoothies for yourself, read Boutenko’s book and stop treating us experienced and healthy smoothie afficionados like some sort of moronic and mislead hype followers?
Elainie
Amen Carolann Kummins.
thehealthyhomeeconomist via Facebook
@Marnie I got my candida under control a number of years ago and so yes, I do avoid high oxalate veggies (and of course soy which is high as well) as you can never be sure exactly how much oxalates your body is producing. It’s better to be safe than sorry and bone broth offers minerals in a very easy to digest way and drinking lots of bone broth in the diet is a much better alternative to green smoothies. Many traditional cultures ate no leafy greens whatsoever and were perfectly healthy. But all traditional cultures made bone broths for minerals and easy digestion. I am missing nothing by forgoing the leafy greens. I don’t agree that we all need more greens in our diet. That is USDA dietary pyramid propaganda.
Hannah
First off, thanks to Sarah for writing this article. It’s important that all sides of any issue are represented. There’s no reason why we can’t all discuss this like level-headed adults instead of taking these statements personally.
Everyone commenting here is a different person, from different backgrounds and ethnicities, and will therefore have different physical needs. Personally, I tried the green smoothie fad with zeal but always felt horrible afterwards. I tried them for my young son and he always became hyper, with a gut ache and blood sugar crash afterwards. But I also have a close friend who has regained her health by drinking a small smoothie each day. Our bodies are different! Even good, helpful diets like GAPS are NOT meant to be eaten our whole lives. Some diets should be followed for a time to heal from disease and regulate our bodies, but if stuck with for too long they can be harmful. The mindset that everything is good or bad for everyone, with no variations, is silly. It’s good to have articles like this one so that we can all make educated, well-rounded decisions on what foods we personally should and should not eat.
That all being said, I would suggest trying ANY new food or supplement slowly and learn to pay attention to how your body reacts to them. Maybe you’re in a place where green smoothies or juices would be helpful for a time, or maybe they would be detrimental to your health. Or try the “cook, drain, add lots of butter” approach and see what that does. At the very least, don’t attack someone because they made a generalized statement about health that you took personally.
Clay
sorry but tis is one seriously misinformed and opinionated article. Please do your research about the green smoothies, and why the greens actually are being blended “into a drink”, consult the thousands of people whom it has benefited to become healthier, and stop telling people that “veggies traditionally cooked in butter” are actually good for you.
Allie
Wow.
Who knew “green smoothies” we’re in the same controversial category as Obama and Jesus?!
Brings out the “beast” in some people.
Read the post. Do your own research. Decide if green smoothies will or will not be a part of your life. Then worship green smoothies or do not. Simple.
Mo
Green smoothies are how SOME people identify themselves. For some its like a holier then thou complex. “I drink green smoothies everyday!” “My toddler drinks green smoothies!” “I spent 500 dollars on a blender that can blend a cell phone and avocado seeds!” So I can see why some people are SO offended, this offends them to the core of who they have identified themselves as. “With out green smoothies, who am I, who will I empress?” I don’t think this hits a nerve because of the science behind it, but rather, you are calling out someones identity.
Sean
If you are going to start bashing nutrient powerhouses, you best be careful what you start replacing them with. Nature abhors a vacuum.
Pingback: Attacking the Green Smoothie | The Healthy Advocate
TC
Of course someone with a PHD has to come out and say something negative like this about Green Smoothies. LOL.
Since myself and everyone I have known have been doing these smoothies for just over 2 years, I have had the most significant boost in health in all areas of my life. I used to have all the symptoms of someone who was suffering from oxalic problems from other types of foods I was eating NOT GREENS. From drinking green shakes everyday I have upgraded my health in every possible way you can imagine. I cannot name one area it has not been extremely positive for me besides the fact you make a gross one here and there.
For the love of god do not stop your green smoothie routine because of this article, it is singlehandedly the smartest thing you can do for your health, a salad here and there just does not cut it in our day and age i’m sorry. This is the future.
Here are a few articles to clear up your misconceptions about this topic.
http://www.rawfamily.com/news/2009/10_09_03.html
http://www.terawarner.com/blog/2009/03/oxalic-acid-a-problem-in-greens-or-a-nutritional-bonus/
Have A Great Day!
Elainie
Totally agree TC.
Marnie Larocque via Facebook
Thanks for the info on the green smoothies. Do you think people with gut imbalance or candida should avoid oxalates in general? I am considering the GAPS diet and the book does not really touch on this issue.The suggested smoothie ingredients do include these but are not based on these. Also, when there is no gut imbalance what is the safe amount of these greens to consume in smoothies on a weekly basis?
Annik
Thanks writing this article. A low/moderate oxalate diet has improved my overall health and my children’s health tremendously. My mom has chronic kidney problems and even had a kidney removed about 30 years ago. It was full of oxalate stones. If only she had know about oxalates. It’s not just green vegetables, though, it’s also coffee, chocolate, wheat, legumes. For more information, check out this incredibly well researched web site:
http://www.lowoxalate.info/
And if you’re curious about whether or not you have an oxalate problem, consider these signs:
-was your mother given lots of antibiotics as a child/young adult?
-do you have mysterious bruises on your shins?
-do you deal with yeast overgrowth?
-do you have joint pain or headaches in your eyes?
Nickole@savvyteasandherbs.com
I don’t think green drinks are fadish at all. In our fast paced lives, it has just become a convenient way to consume nutrients. If anyone is concerned about oxalates, you DO NOT have to stop drinking your tasty green drink! Just use Spirulina, Wheatgrass, Barley Grass, or Chlorella. Super nutritious and especially in powder form, very concentrated nutrients there. That is what we put in our green drinks b/c it packs a more nutritional punch than leafy greens even! We also like to add Beet Root Powder, Bee Pollen, Maca Root Powder, Bilberry Fruit Powder, etc. Very yummy and better than a multivitamin any day!
Nickole
Shelly Clark Smith via Facebook
Wow! Thanks for the green light to forget about this approach.
Daryl L. Rogers via Facebook
I am behind Sarah on the reasoning to not include oxalate heavy greens, but I feel like the other greens options (romaine, spring mix, green leaf lettuce, red leaf lettuce, etc) were ignored. I think more people would have listened to the message of the article if an alternative had been given, because let’s face it, the majority of us still need to eat more veggies and smoothies can be an easy way to do that.
Jill Cruz via Facebook
but I appreciate your bringing up the topic
Jill Cruz via Facebook
A bit of disagreement can be productive
I agree that green smoothies are not a traditional food and they could be detrimental for some people. And perhaps the consumption of this drink in the form you describe is sometimes a reactionary practice rooted in fear and misconceptions….However….I am not a fan of blanket statements….Some people obviously benefit from these drinks…We can emulate traditional cultures and that is wonderful…but we are dealing with major amounts of toxicity, both physically, spiritually, and emotionally in our modern society…Our modern-day needs and practices can not possibly begin to come close to what traditional people were dealing with so I think discounting a practice because it is not a “traditional practice” is not always appropriate….I personally benefit greatly from juicing fresh organic veggies and organ meats once or twice per week. Were there any traditional cultures that did this? I’m not sure..but I know it works for me. Each person is unique and should observe their own body and not follow dogma….
thehealthyhomeeconomist via Facebook
@Jill I respectfully disagree. Based on the reading I’ve done on oxalates and the fact that nearly everyone has some sort of fungal issues from gut imbalance (fungus produces oxalates which the body has to deal with), I feel that the majority of people who are addicted to green smoothies and consume them frequently will eventually suffer chronic health challenges from this habit. For some, it will happen in a few months, others a few years. Others, perhaps 10 years. No traditional culture EVER consumed their greens this way and those who are consuming these huge amounts on a frequent basis are unwittingly engaged in yet another modern day health experiment.
Robyn
You cite one article, Sarah, written by a doctor who has done independent research and has developed conclusions based on that research.
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders
The article, whilst entertaining, doesn’t really read like a research paper: for one thing, there is no list of sources (research studies) to substantiate his conclusions.
The research done by research teams around the world appears to be barking up a completely different tree with regard to the causative factor in calcium oxalate formation:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/4/886.full
http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/15/12/3225.full
In this list of studies, I see none that implicate green-leafy sources of oxalate as a causative mechanism in calcium oxalate formation in susceptible individuals:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/66/1/140.short
I find it interesting that in this day where the Standard American Diet – which has been inculpated as the primary cause of western civilization’s deplorable health status – an article such as this (with only the above article as supporting evidence) should stand as credible proof that eating raw leafy green vegetables is definitely bad for you.
Robyn
And overall:
Recent studies of vegetarian diets and their effects on morbidity and mortality are reviewed. Vegetarian diets are heterogeneous as are their effects on nutritional status, health, and longevity. Mortality rates are similar or lower for vegetarians than for nonvegetarians. Risks of dietary deficiency disease are increased on vegan but not on all vegetarian diets. Evidence for decreased risks for certain chronic degenerative diseases varies. Both vegetarian dietary and lifestyle practices are involved. Data are strong that vegetarians are at lesser risk for obesity, atonic constipation, lung cancer, and alcoholism. Evidence is good that risks for hypertension, coronary artery disease, type II diabetes, and gallstones are lower. Data are only fair to poor that risks of breast cancer, diverticular disease of the colon, colonic cancer, calcium kidney stones, osteoporosis, dental erosion, and dental caries are lower among vegetarians. Reduced risks for chronic degenerative diseases can also be achieved by manipulations of omnivorous diets and lifestyles.
Jill Cruz via Facebook
My mantra is that we are all different…..some are going to feel great on green smoothies and others won’t….there is only controversy when one believes that what is right for them is right for everyone else….now that is silly!
April
Holy cow! Where were you two years ago when I had rash covering my hands and arms?
Thank you for this post! I am extremely sensitive to high oxalate foods and it was very difficult to figure out on my own. Some of the only good info I found was through Great Plains. I eat WAP with low oxalate, low sugar juicing and I am still having issues. I do the GAPS diet but I get migraines and fatigued. I had a fecal test done and it found no candida so I dropped that idea until recently reading Gut and Psychology Syndrome and it said they are not accurate enough. Do you know what test I should get? What would you do if you suspected candida and had terrible symptoms everytime you tried to do GAPS diet? Sorry to bug you with questions but you are one of the first people I’ve found that knows about this. I have to educate every doctor I go to and they look at me crazy. No I am not expecting doctors to help me. I am only using them for testing to figure out whats wrong but your post confirmed my feelings about candida over again. My doctor suggested nystatin too. Any experience with that? I was thinking maybe in conjunction with GAPS it might help me get ahead. I really appreciate your post. It seems some are not willing to accept this idea. Already getting backlash on it on my Facebook page.
Michelle
April – I can’t address your candida questions, but I can say that if you are following a truly low oxalate diet (GAPS or no), it is possible that you are “dumping.” That is, experiencing the effects of oxalate detoxing. Because oxalates so readily bind minerals, they can cause a whole host of symptoms – fatigue and headaches among them. I have had both when oxalates are tying up all of my minerals, and I combat it with supplements, since I don’t tolerate dairy well. However if you’re not a fan of supplements, GAPS-legal dairy might be helpful to you, as might raising your oxalate intake just a bit – enough to signal the body that it’s time to stop dumping oxalates into the bloodstream. As with everything, this is individual, but it’s recommended that you have at least 40-60mg of oxalates per day in your diet to prevent constant dumping.
I hope this helps!
-Michelle
Maria @ Egg Laying Chickens
I make green smoothies 2-3 times a week for my family, using locally in-season greens, fresh fruit and balanced with added fats such as coconut oil and raw egg yolk.
I’m a WAPF chapter leader, and we also make smoothies with raw milk, homemade kefir, and coconut water bases.
The controversy over oxalates aside, as with most foods, if we eat them as part of a balanced diet, especially following seasonality and sourcing them locally, health is supported, not risked.
Michelle Mc via Facebook
I wonder if some people have only read the headline and not the full article? Weird responses (plus how many people dont know this is a weston price blog!!! Raw butter is good people!!). Anyway great article, never liked green smoothies or juicing so right down my alley! We do use kale in season (my friend grows it organically through autumn/winter) & we use it in soups!
Michelle Mc via Facebook
I wonder if some people have only read the headline and not the full article? Weird responses (plus how many people dont know this is a weston price blog!!! Raw butter is good people!!). Anyway great article, never liked green smoothies or juicing so right down my alley! We do use kale in season (my friend grows it organically through autumn/winter) & we use it in soups!
Aimee Ridgway
How many almonds can you eat each day without being at the same risk?
Dr. Phillips
This blog confuses me. As a natural health care practitioner, I have studied nutrition and have been annoyed by passing fads that prove to be more harmful than helpful. However, EVERY study that deals with nutrition, especially in the US, is that we do not consume enough raw organic produce. More fruits and vegetables will improve anyone’s health in this nutritionally depleted country. So for me to be made aware of this article by patients that are trying to improve their health by beefing up on more produce who are now scared to eat green leafies and other health promoting foods makes me a little upset. Let’s keep a good perspective. Yes, there are fad diets out there, but keep eating the produce because, as a good friend of mine told me, we need to eat more foods made FROM plants and less food made IN plants.
James Cobos
This is a very misleading article. Seems like a hit piece to a health habit more and more people are turning to, including myself. The Boutenko Family and others have eaten greens in smoothies for about 20 years i would say and they are healthy. Rotate your greens to avoid too much of one variety of greens and add other ingredients to make em taste good. i’m going to make myself another green smoothie. It’s good to be green.
Jamez
I agree with you, but I am not sure I would use Victoria as a role model. I think she has had one too many smoothies! It is not the greens in smoothie that are the issue, it is all the filler crap people put in. Beisdes the fact that blending at high speed breaks down plant cell walls similar (but not as badly) to cooking.
A small amount of fruit is ok,, but all the processed powders, high sugar fruit , etc is doing no good at all. I used to do this and learned the hard way. For the last year and a half I have just stuck to green juice with some carrot or beet juice to flavour it. I do like the quality wheatgrass or alfalfa powders to add as well.
Detoxing the Body and help for Mutiple Chemical Sensitivity MCS via Facebook
Spell corrector, arg!
Detoxing the Body and help for Mutiple Chemical Sensitivity MCS via Facebook
Thanks for ruining my evening.lol. it seems raw kale, broccoli, and collards are intuitively not something to eat. I felt better hearing that the Chinese dont eat raw veggies. I did make an effort to go raw and my insides didn’t like it and neither did I.. I like my veggies cooked , except I do make a parsley or cilantro pineapple drink, with a LOT of parsley or cilantro. I do drink a lot of lemon peel lemonade which I think is high oxtalate. It seems counter-intuitive that all of these wonderful cancer and disease fighting vegetables, which have been eaten for centuries, can be bad. That said, our bodies have never endured the food and toxins that we can not get away from. It seems this article seems sensatnal, but good to store away in the memory, inches I get pains or kidney stones.
Jeanne @soultravelers3
This IS very confusing even for someone who is a huge fan of WAPF and GAPS, but thanks for posting it. I am healing myself while traveling the world ( no easy task doing this in Asia where much less is available…even in Europe MUCH less is available compared to California). You can’t just send for things either as they get stuck in customs, so one must make do with what is available.
Luckily, I can get more organic food here than in Europe, but no one ever lists info about Asian greens that I have found yet. Sigh. Dr. Fuhrman says Kale is the most nutrient dense food, so you are saying this is bad for all? Mute point for me though as there is none here and it is also hard to find in Europe. I did eat some in California recently as I love it cooked and topped with raw organic butter.
There seems to be much on WAPF that is contradictory, so that adds confusion.
Even the GAPS diet is big on some juicing so that adds to the confusion. ( read this last night from an MD into GAPS/).
“Dr. Campbell-McBride recommends beginning with carrot juice as a base, and then adding fruit, as well as therapeutic ingredients, such as various greens; swiss chard, kale, lettuces, spinach, beet and radish tops, bok choy and cabbage, etc.”
I don’t do well mixing fruits and veggies though, so modify things that work best for me. Beets and cabbage seem to really help my upper stomach pain ( I have a mysterious digestive illness that started 2 years ago when I took antibiotics in Spain via my Danish dentist and have been to MD and alternative docs on 3 continents, endless tests etc and nothing has cured the pain/debilitation yet). I’ve gone on and off various juices and protocals trying to fix it, but lately have added these to my mostly organic bone broth/ goat yogurt/ homemade goatmilk kefir and quark/pastured raw eggs/coconut oil, wild chicken, wild salmon diet.
I’ve been helped a lot by Dr. Brasco and Rubin’s “Guts to Glory” program ( they are very inline with WAPF as is GAPS) but he uses parsley in some of his recipes ( like for bone broth etc) and HIGHLY recommends vegetable juices as “essential for healing food”. They say:
“Vegetable juices, especially green juices are potent sources of enzymes, vitamins, and trace minerals. Vegetable juices are easy to assimilate. They supply many of the nutrients that are needed to rebuild health. ”
I’ve actually have felt some INSTANT relief of pain after taking juice lately and it seems to be helping…but it does have organic parsley in it and an organic green used for juicing here in Asia ( supposedly similar to celery which is not available here)…I usually do those with org carrots, beets ( not the tops), plus a bit of quark and flaxseed oil for blood sugar …and have just added cabbage ( and often add a bit of tumeric and ginger).
I would LOVE to know exactly what is and is not healthy as far as juicing. I know people who swear by juicing but this is fairly new to me ( last 6 months).
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I juice myself … just always stir some cream or coconut oil into it so it doesn’t spike your blood sugar to the moon and don’t overdo with high oxalate veggies especially if you have gut imbalance!!!! Very simple.
Michelle
Sarah,
I would love to read a post or see a video on juicing. Maybe a great follow up to this post. Thanks!
Amanda
I’m surprised to hear that you juice. I’m mean, that’s not a very traditional practice. My great grandmother never juiced. What is the difference between throwing vegetables in a juicer and throwing them in a blender? Aren’t both modern-day inventions? One could say juicing is even a fad. Certainly wheat grass juices shots are considered to be. Wouldn’t it have been better for you to say what you just said in your article? That green smoothies are okay as long as you don’t overdo it and you don’t have a gut imbalance?
I would have been fine if you would have talked about green smoothies in your article the same way you do in your comments. That they are “fine in moderation” and they are okay if “not had every day” and “not in large quantities.” Instead you chose to tell people to skip them entirely. I’m not sure if you mean to, but the way you wrote the article makes it seem like you wouldn’t touch a green smoothie with a ten-foot pole–like they are bad for you even.
Have you ever had a green smoothie?
Ie Ling via Facebook
Now that’s confusing. Dr. Mercola highly recommends raw food diet/juice
Sue B
How kind of you to completely disgregard and minimize my testimony. How compassionate of you to determine for me, that there is no one else like me.
I am not a ‘follower’. i happened on the article in a routine search.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Sue B, I am sorry if some of the nasty commenters here minimized your struggle with recovery from green smoothies. I so appreciate you chiming in. You are brave and your story will no doubt stop at least one person from joining in with this health fad.
Holly Morrison via Facebook
wow, year three of green smoothies and green juices…we grow our greens fresh and rotate greens regularly. thinking you are really making a global statement that seems loaded with opinion….oxalates are in them…but rotation keeps balance as it does with all foods…we eat our greens cooked too,….keeping the liquid and honestly…our health is explosively awesome….no pain…and had pain before…no sickness and had it tons before….just awesome health engery !! year 9 of juicing greens…drink green smoothies more than juice. I juice and freeze to have handy when I know I am needing a booste. anyway.just my 2 cents. I love your info, but I think you are wrong on this one. btw, I am hypothyroid…have been for 30 years….my dosages are lower now than before i made my diet change 9 years ago…rotation of greens is the key.green smoothies heal.
Kelly
Holly, with all due respect, there is no one ‘diet’ for everyone. That’s great if the green smoothies have helped you. You must have good oxalate degrading bacteria in your gut, if not, then it’s highly likely you would have a problem.
Aside from the oxalate issue, many people cannot digest raw veggies or fruits as well as other body types. Cooking helps them digest these foods, and contrary to the common belief, many foods vitamin content actually increases and/or becomes more bioavailable if it’s cooked. You are benefiting from raw, oxalate heavy foods, but that doesn’t mean they’re right for everyone.
Angela
It seems clear to me that this discussion has gone like many a religious debate. Someone makes an outrageous claim with no support, then someone else calls them on it. Then that someone or their sheep followers claims that the caller was “offended” for noticing the issues with their arguement. Hello, these people are simply asking for evidence! ‘Ure kidney stones are painful people, but even if they are made of the stuff, it proves nothing. There is cholesterol found it blocked up places too, but we now know that the cholesterol is the body’s solution to the problem, not the problem it’ self! Just like a fever is the body’s fix and not the problem too. Anyhow, we only can see part of the picture now, and yet we know that the “harmful stuff” in all these fruits and veggies are harmless in a healthy gut with good flora and no leaks. We also know that people get more alkaline, feel better and lose weight when they eat them, so are more likely to be healthy and unaffected by the bad, if they eat more of it! Anyhow, I’ve noticed a lot of very knowledgable and qualified people nicely but very strongly disagreeing with Sarah, and all she does as usual is scoff and laugh. That is very prideful and whether I agreed or disagreed with her, I am yet again disgusted with her unteachable attitude! She has nowhere near the training or resources of Dr Mercola and yet people are going away from his well documented and sound traditional advice, to follow this sensationalism! That just shows me the idol worship going on with her followers. She needs to start a cult, as the followers are already here who are willing to go against all reason and common sense to follow her.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
This is not an outrageous claim with no support. Please see the scientific source at the end of the article which is the basis for this article.
The outrageous claims are by green smoothie afficionados that these health damaging drinks are healthy. NO traditional culture EVER consumed their greens this way and people who drink these oxalate laced cocktails frequently are unwittingly subjects to a modern day experiment with many people already finding their health damaged perhaps permanently by ingesting such large doses of oxalates for extended periods of time.
Elainie
Health damaging? LOL. I think you need to take a look at these recovery stories. Guess what Sarah? They all involve green juices. Do yourself a favor and open your mind outside of what WAP says. http://www.hippocratesinst.org/archives/117-recovery
Sue B
I am a green smoothie convert about a year and a half ago. they really helped me… REALLY HELPED ME. UNTIL the kidney stones showed up.
I have had a calcium oxalate problem since 1988 when a broken foot didn’t heal properly. 2 years later, 34 calcium oxalate crystals were surgically pulled from my ankle. Since then, calcium cysts have sprung up all over my body, in every joint (esp hands and feet and yup, SPINE.
i was doing the smoothies, thought I was on to something when I started doing them less and less often.
As a child, i hated greens, as an adult, i wasn’t so good about greens and salads either. When i discovered green smoothies I thought I had found the answer, and I did, but for only a while until my body recovered enough to compain – hence, kidney stones – in addition to all the other stones, is not fun.
Now, does anyone know how to get rid of them once they are everywhere (and ohhh sooo painful)
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Very very difficult. Please consult a holistic practicioner. This is why these folks who are addicted to green smoothies and think they are just fine are so foolish .. they will just keep on going down this path to chronic health problems and won’t stop until major issues appear.
Thank you for sharing your struggle. Hopefully it will stop at least one person from the green smoothie madness.
kari
Hi Sue,
Look up the vitamin k protocol, generally used for autism. From what I’ve read, vitamin K2 can possibly detox oxalates, although I believe this is controversial. I have read anecdotal evidence from mothers of autistic kids that this protocol has helped. In autism, oxalates are often a problem. Good luck!
Sue B
Thx Sarah and Kari.
To all the haters out there, lemme just say a few things about people and their health issues. you know what? No one knows everything and especially those of you with alphabet letters behind your names, who have been ‘taught’ by those that wish to deceive and profit from the suffering of others. Every one is different and without going into a full medical history, no one knows for sure what anyone else can handle.
i am grateful for this column because it opened my eyes to the possibility of a condition I was previously unaware of until recently when i added green smoothies to my diet almost daily.
I agree with Victoria Boutenko who told us to rotate greens in our smoothies. I did that, too, but here I am, miserable and in serious pain from oxalate crystals everywhere in my body. i have had a total of three surgeries to have them removed from my feet and they won’t do it again.
I am sure most of you do not have my history nor suffer from what i do, yet to blatantly hate on Sarah for providing information that to me, was helpful in putting together some pieces is just… hateful.
You arrogant a*ses could just stay away, but instead massage your egos by being disrespectful and hateful towards someone who has done nothing wrong. Your egos and self-images are boosted by this type of behavior? maybe you need some good butter or ice cream – or a cookie and a nap! GFY
prime
Here: if you all want REAL SCIENCE, Robb Wolf and Loren Cordain both have PhDs in biochemistry, have done ACTUAL lab research and have the REAL solutions. It’s called the Paleo Diet (there are vegetarian versions too)
http://robbwolf.com/
He site’s REAL research articles and has his OWN books. Over and out.
BIlbao
“REAL SCIENCE” doesn’t really mean much when you’re basing it on flawed studies…
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/
Lare Garza via Facebook
really?
Joyce
Hi Sarah,
Someone mentioned a blog you wrote about whey protein powder and neuropathy (sp?) I couldn’t find it in the archives; can you please post a link for it?
Thanks,
Joyce
green lover
I’m sorry but is this an April fools joke? You have to be kidding me. How many ounzes of smoothie are you talking about being dangerous?
Brian
I appreciate the concern shared in this post, but feel it’s a bit dramatic. I do agree that the green smoothie craze has been blown way out of proportion in it being the best for bodily detoxification and nutrition. Unfortunately our more = better mentality continues to get the best of us.
Oxalates are all around us, and in many different vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. It’s also produced naturally by the body… so should we eliminate it altogether? I don’t think so.
In regards to the article, there actually is no proof that oxalates actually form kidney stones.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17538185
There was no correlation found in this study…
Beyond that everyone absorbs oxalates at different rates which is extremely variable from person to person and can be influenced by everything from gut microflora to inflammation. Being that most guts are likely inflamed (and possibly leaky) there could be a valid point made for reducing oxalates, but again it’s highly individual.
I do agree with moderation of all things, and if you’re making green smoothies with large handfuls of spinach daily the potential is there to have an issue.
I also think drinking a green smoothie from time to time (using greens like kale, chard, collards) can be a good addition to the diet.
Charles Clark Peebles via Facebook
I wonder how many green smoothies were consumed before electricity…
Think. What do you think? Think again.
Jamez
And how much butter was consumed before dairy farming? It would be a safe guess to say that green leaves were eaten well before man ever came up with the unnatural atrocity of butter
Samuel Heins via Facebook
The leading cause of kidney stones is a lack of water. Drink More Water!!! WATER, WATER, WATER. Your not sick your just thirsty.
In personal observation the many people who I have come across that have stones are not “smoothie” people if you know what I mean. That must have some weight to it, right. I did not link to any study, but neither did the author.
Simone
Also, could you please give us a recipe for the perfect nourishing smoothie that the whole family could have?
prime
See the paleo diet. -Robb Wolf and Loren Cordain (both have PhDs in biochemistry and have done ACTUAL research in REAL LABS.) They have plenty of recipes at http://www.everydaypaleo.com http://www.fastpaleo.com
made with almond or coconut milk. Veggie ones too.
Oh and the biochemistry backs it up, so it’s science.
Simone
What about if you put some lettuce in a smoothie, would that be ok as its low oxylate? Would it be beneficial?
Jesus Christ aka “Holy Kale”
Ladies, ladies, calm down. You are all just a little bored and have too much time on your hands. Go outside and enjoy this wonderful sunset I just made for you, and please for the love of God give someone a hug before you all die from my poisonous veggies. Muhahahahaha!
Satan
prime
HAA!! That’s hilarious
Samuel
The leading cause of kidney stones is a lack of water. Drink More Water!!! WATER, WATER, WATER. Your not sick your just thirsty.
In personal observation the many people who I have come across that have stones are not “smoothie” people if you know what I mean. That must have some weight to it, right. I did not link to any study, but neither did the author.
Tamster Mac
Sarah,
Could you please post links to the studies that will back up your assertions?
Thanks.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
The article is sourced at the bottom of the post. This info is not something I just dreamed up. This is documented info that folks who love green smoothies need to be warned about.
A friend just emailed me about the practices of traditional Southern black cuisine – guess what? They always served their collards in very small portions unlike the rest of the meal which was overflowing with large portions.
prime
-Because your friend serving small amounts of collards is scientific research. Awesome. WOW. HARVARD WATCH OUT!!!
Please get an education. I’m thinking you have a good heart Sarah, but you have seriously misinformed people here and that’s irresponsible. Even your FANS are calling you on this. There is integrity and honor in admitting a mistake. I am disappointed because I was referred to your site and my friend spoke highly of you. This was on my FB feed and I about flipped my lid with how inaccurate all of this is. People in this country are DYING, sick and over-medicated because there is SO MUCH CRAP out there like this that’s just not accurate. Again, I have a biochemistry degree and KNOW this info is incorrect, I don’t care what article you sourced it from. Not all articles are to be trusted. I could write an article saying grape juice is good for the engine of my car if I wanted. We were once told by scientists that the world was flat… seriously you should have titled this differently and given more accurate advice. I’m all about natural remedies and cures and going back to our ancestry for diet, but come on… this is so flawed. I’m with you in that ppl probably shouldn’t drink 40 of these a day… but never??? Just… be careful with people’s health is all. You scared my friends for NO GOOD reason and that’s not okay with me. People actually read your articles as if you ARE a nutritionist, ok? I know you don’t claim to be, but the people who aren’t interested in science, don’t want to do their own research look to bloggers like you for the TRUTH. And I saw your disclaimer that this isn’t a sub. for REAL medical advice, so perhaps you should start EVERY blog with that sentence so people can me reminded that you’re not a scientist or have any certifications qualifying you to give nutritional advice (which is illegal in this country). You can get away with this b/c it’s an ‘opinion’ site and you don’t charge money. -But let’s participate in reality, people MAY see you as a ‘free’ nutritionist. Take care.
Lia
Thank you Prime. I agree with everything you wrote. Now I wonder if Sarah will be big enough to admit that she went about this panic-inducing post all wrong. I have to admit, that 24 hours after reading this, I am starting to wonder what other information she is wrong about. Her credibility has gone down in my eyes and I will now be turning to other people first for nutrition advice. Disapointing but bettet to know this now then later I guess.
expectamiracle
This is a controversial subject that has been raging for as long as I can remember. Let me tell you right off that it is not nearly the problem you may have been led to believe. Oxalic acid is a chemical compound found in bleaches, anti-rust products and metal cleaners. However, it is also a naturally occurring component of many plants. Regarding Oxalic acid in your food, you must understand that there is a world of difference between Oxalic acid that is in its pure, organic, uncooked form, and Oxalic acid that has been cooked. So, with fruits and vegetables containing Oxalic acid that are eaten uncooked you will be glad to learn that the Oxalic acid has a very beneficial effect. It is instrumental in contributing to the peristaltic action of your intestines–that is the wave-like contractions that move foodstuffs through your entire digestive tract.
It is when Oxalic acid is consumed in foods that are cooked that there is the potential for problems, but even then the risk is extremely small. Actual poisoning or damage from ingested Oxalic acid from food is incredibly unlikely. It is generally accepted that the human body can readily dispose of Oxalic acid–secrete it–with no problem even in significant amounts. Rhubarb leaves contain a particularly high amount of Oxalic acid and one would have to eat over ten pounds in one sitting for there to be danger. The only people who would be at risk are those who have some type of genetic condition that impairs their body’s ability to process Oxalic acid. Such people are remarkably rare.
So don’t worry–you can of course eat as much fresh, uncooked fruits and vegetables with Oxalic acid as you like and it will be of benefit. As far as those vegetables customarily eaten cooked that contain Oxalic acid, having them on occasion is not going to be a problem. I’ve been involved in the study of diet for over 40 years and I have yet to come into contact with a single person to be poisoned or damaged by Oxalic acid in their food. I hope this allays your concerns.
Me
This is ridiculous. “oxalates stones” are made from oxalac acid and calcium. From this person’s point of view maybe we should just stop eating calcium too? If people feel good from eating green smoothies because prior to eating them they were on a diet that left them malnourished, maybe fighting malnourishment is more important than possible, maybe, avoiding greens? After all, malnourishment does lead to death, maybe we should work on that one first. Which is worse? Kidney stones or death? It’s a stumper, I know.
DyeDiet
I wish you gave us references on how much oxalate we consume with the specific green leafs and whether that amount is dangerous for the human’s health in the long term. Healthy human body definitely has mechanisms to resist, neutralize and normalize oxalate level via excretion. We have bigger problem with the US food supply: We are on the “dye diet” which is too many and too much chemicals. Children and even babies are exposed… Look at Pedialyte: This is what really hurts… But ignorant moms keep buying the chemically polluted liquid “recommended by the periatric association”…. You will find more at the DyeDiet. But I like your website!
Jodi
This site is a wealth of information. Here is what it has to say about spinach serving suggestions:
“Foods belonging to the chenopod family–including beets, chard, spinach and quinoa–continue to show an increasing number of health benefits not readily available from other food families. The red and yellow betalain pigments found in this food family, their unique epoxyxanthophyll carotenoids, and the special connection between their overall phytonutrients and our nervous system health (including our specialized nervous system organs like the eye) point to the chenopod family of foods as unique in their health value. While we have yet to see large-scale human studies that point to a recommended minimum intake level for foods from this botanical family, we have seen data on chenopod phytonutrients, and based on this data, we recommend that you include foods from the chenopod family in your diet 1-2 times per week. In the case of a leafy food like spinach, we recommend a serving size of at least 1/2 cup, and even more beneficial, at least one full cup. ”
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43
Eliza Katherine via Facebook
I adore your blog, but as a student of naturopathy I do disagree with this blanket statement… I posted more details on this blog-post as to why green smoothies (although certainly not for everyone) can sometimes have great therapeutic efficacy. Keep up the good work! x
Eliza
Hi Sarah, I’m a second year Naturopathy and Nutrition student in Australia and I really enjoy your blog… I too include plenty of healthy, saturated fats, raw dairy, and unprocessed food in my diet and love all that you are doing to promote this
On this issue though, I have to say I disagree… Almost all foods contain some substance that if consumed in excess can cause problems. Even my beloved red meat contains arachidonic acid which, while essential for good health, in excess can cause hypertension and chronic, systemic inflammation. We would never say to avoid red meat entirely though for this reason, probably just not to eat it in large quantities every single day and to also ensure we get a variety of other animal products in the diet also.
Green smoothies have tremendous therapeutic value, but they are not for everyone. They can be really effective at cleansing the liver, and also feed beneficial flora in the bowel and provide the blood with iron (granted this is the non-heme iron found in plant foods, but in a healthy gut can still be utilised to some extent). For anyone with liver issues or even endocrine issues caused by the liver not effectively metabolising excess oestrogen, for instance, they can really benefit from consuming a daily green smoothie for a therapeutic period of time. There are so many other phytochemicals, antioxidants, and other nutrients that there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater that is the oxalates…
I would stress again though that they are not for everybody – some people’s guts are in no shape for raw greens in that quantity, and I believe these should be used as a therapeutic tool for specific ailments and not a blanket “these are great for everybody!” approach that many healthfood stores take. They are gorgeously effective though when the body is calling for them.
Again, great blog. I just wanted to offer a naturopathic/medicinal perspective of where these foods can be beneficial
x
Kate
Wow. Interesting stuff. Is juicing greens okay? I feel great and am so regular with celery, carrots, cucumbers, spinach juiced each morning. My skin is amazing.
Kathryn
I started reading this blog because I’m sick, broke, and need info. This post doesn’t give it, though the discussion has been enlightening. Except for all the time wasting comments about the commenters.
Deb Donovan via Facebook
Oops. I had more chronic pain than any time in my life. I think it is important to listen to your body. I wish I had known then the role oxalates were playing in the pain I experienced!
Deb Donovan via Facebook
I am one of those very sensitive to oxalates. I couldn’t understand why I felt worse than ever as I tried to maintain weight loss, eating all the “right” things. Unfortunately they weren’t right for me. I was pain
Allie
no time to read all of the comments, so maybe this has been discussed, but aren’t NUTS high oxalate?
Grace
I think nuts are high in oxalates. I wonder if soaking them lowers the oxalates, or just lowers the phytic acid?
It seemed like one of the things that triggered gallbladder pain was having unsoaked cashews and sunflower seeds.
Eliza
Soaking nuts prior to eating them lowers both the oxalates and phytic acid x
Kelly@Leafy Not Beefy
Hi – obviously by the name of my blog, I’m probably not going to completely agree with your article. I do agree, however, that some leafy greens are higher than others in oxalates, and my opinion is that if you have a history of kidney stones you may want to not consume those as much. But i think for the average, healthy indiv., this is just a fear-inducing tactic and a way to cause controversy. I did a juice fast for about 30 days in February, and have been drinking green smoothies close to once a day since then…usually using 1/2-1 C of frozen spinach of collard greens and haven’t had any bad symptoms, and in fact feel better. I do suffer from seborrheic dermatitis, so according to you, I should not be experiencing any health benefit AT ALL from drinking green smoothies… We’re all entitled to our own opinions, I just think generalizing and saying we should ditch the leafy greens, or if we *have* to eat them, drown them in butter… *sigh* I don’t care if it’s “a fad” or not, I think they are extremely healthy. Also, you don’t mention ways to help — such as adding some fresh lemon to you smoothies/juices, eating low-oxalate foods such as mushrooms, cabbage, berries,.. to offset some of the higher oxalate foods, and making sure to drink plenty of water.
Mishelle
Sarah,
I admire your bravery in posting this. I only read some of the comments and I was already exhausted. Thank you for putting forth real science that is steeped in traditions and not the fads that come and go!
Victoria Leith
Hm… I will have to disagree – I have been drinking green smoothies for seven years now, daily and I have marvelled at the benefits! x
sandy
Wow! this is the most response I’ve seen. had to fast forward through a lot of it. My husband and I drank green drinks for many years. When you posted awhile back about the oxalates I started cooking beets once a week to store in the fridge for a new version of drink 2 or 3 times a week. lately it’s been raw milk kefir, beet, celery, and blueberry and or banana with a little raw butter and we take our cod liver oil at the same time
. not sure about the celery. we only eat spinach & kale cooked now and mostly just from our garden. Does this sound beneficial or would you eliminate the celery?
Kathryn
Interesting discussion… And I got some great links to blogs new to me. She got a zillion hits to show potential advertisers for next to no effort. As for the damage this sensational garbage post will do for readers who don’t have time to read the comments… We’re just encouraging more like it, I’m afraid.
Teresa
Boy! Do people love their smoothies! I like to chew most of my foods! It satisfies because it is the designed way of nourishment. I personally don’t think it’s too healthy to consume too much through liquids. It’ never fills me up! Just my 2 cents worth. It would probably be more healthier to only consume “water”as our liquids…then again I love kombucha. LOL what A nerve this has touched! We are living in the “smoothie age”‘!
Dr. Eric
Though the oxalate discussion is a very common “medical” discussion, I would say from anecdotal evidence (large high volume chiropractic wellness practice), that most people who experience oxalate production have issues. These issues have shown up as poor pH (highly acidic) which might be the thing that drives them to attempts to alkalize through greens. We have found great results by focusing on pH with other methods first, then increasing greens. And the oxalate production is minimized.
We have had those who also have serious dysbiosis (poor balance of gut bacteria) also produce high oxalates. So we work on that first, and viola, no problem with oxalates.
So to say that the foods that are known as the healthiest foods on the planet by WAY more experienced health coaches than any other food group out there, is a bit premature without looking beyond. Sadly, this is simply bad advice.
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steph
PS: how are these raw vegans still alive? lmbo!
Rebecca
Raw Vegans are known to live a VERY long life, and look incredibly young, even at ages that push 100. Research it.
Karla
Nice to see more information out here on oxalates. Nasty stuff. I still have my green smoothies, but in moderation and they dont include high oxalate greens like spinach or chard. Im a fan of arugula, cress, dino kale and other lower oxalate greens.
steph
I agree with this article. I actually over dosed on oxalates…I was drinking green smoothies everyday, and one day juiced 16 ounces of beets and their greens. Less than 30 minutes later (while driving my kids to school) I started to vomit uncontrollably, followed by severe headaches, stomach aches, and shaking. It was the worst thing ever! I felt like I had a bad case of the flu for an entire day (at one point I almost called 911 as I thought I was going to die – it was that bad). After some research and investigation and consulting w/ my chiro I figured it was the oxalates. This doesn’t mean greens are bad for you! It means that they should be consumed in moderation, like everything else. A lot of medicinal herbs are poisonous in large amounts, but healing in moderation. Same theory…moderation.
Anita
Thank you for this! lol I can now go on with my life much happier after reading your comment…after reading the article. I’m living a very healthy life (according to my own research) with no issues and had a small bout of paranoia after reading this article. But knowing that I live a fairly balanced life (no preservatives, GMO stuff, soy, pastured dairy, land meats etc and staying active, hydrated, grounded and with a positive attitude with life in general…things “I” personally consider healthy) I will keep doing what my body responds well to:) If my health is currently rated as “perfectly healthy” according to my dr. evaluations I have no reason to dramatically alter my life and reduce that highly nutritious foods I’m consuming.
But still I think it’s great that people address things they find important to get people interested in researching new topics to expand our knowledge on unknown things…as it did for me.
marybeth
Very interestin! It really makes sense to me now. My mother in-law has fibromyalgea and has suffered over 20 years of this. I remember her telling me how she would lose handfuls of hair when she ate any of the high oxalate vegetables. Even though she tried cooking them and eating them with butter and so on. I totally believed her and wondered why that was so.
I never noticed much of a problem myself but i figured it was because i wasn’t as sick as she was. Thank u for the post Sarah! Keep up the good work! You are very encouraging to me ! After all I feel like we have something in common: the responsibility of keeping those we love happy and healthy.
Rachel B.
What are the best vegetables to eat that are healthy?
Anita
This brochure about oxalate states kale as quite low per 100g…spinach is 600mg, Swiss Chard at 645mg while kale is only 13mg! It sets the “high” range to be above 50. http://www.litholink.com/downloads/Stone_LowOxalateDiet.pdf
If this is the case why is kale being mentioned along with Spinach whenever it’s talked about as though they are identical?
Then again today is the first day I’m learning about oxalate…and it’s totally ruining my life lol…I do everything to stay AS healthy as possible now I feel like I need to start from scratch! On a raw food diet and Adore my spinach, kale and Swiss chard, and green juices…grrr. I don’t suffer from anything, but I also have an inability to ignore info like this:(
I also Adore my raw cacao, almonds!
Rhubarb 800mg yikes! Good thing that’s never been a part of my life.
The site also mentions contradicting info to what’s shared here…saying fat is reduced to help not added! the quote “Excess fat will bind with calcium in food, thus leaving oxalate by itself to be reabsorbed by the colon and back into the blood stream. If too much oxalate is absorbed, it will combine with calcium in the kidney and can lead to calcium oxalate stones.”
Goes on to say too Little calcium also increases risks of producing excess oxalate…good Lord lol, now I’m more confused as ever about what’s the best diet for my health!
Emma @ Craving Fresh
I think you’re right to eat them in moderation. I tend to alternate between cooking my spinach and swiss chard (and discarding the water) and throwing a few leaves into a smoothie every now and again to eat raw.
Here’s an article I posted about the topic, with links to a lot of research:
http://www.cravingfresh.com/2011/04/good-news-eating-raw-spinach-might-be.html
sabine
i wouldn’t poo the whole theory of green juices. there are some therapeutic diets like gerson and gaps that use juices with success as they are good for chelation. the wahl’s diet is very heavy on dark leafy greens and she reversed ms with her diet. i have read too that adding baking soda to the cooking water will neutralize oxalic acid, so that may be worth a try too for the others (as well as discarding the water as you say).
Linda
I so agree with Sophia ….. but I bet these negative people will be doing a whole lot of thinking in the future about WAP and Sarah and smoothies , everytime they see one! Sarah makes people think….something that a lot of people don’t want to do on their own. It’s not easy this journey ….but I love that I am learning from a pro every single day . Things that I would never search out on my own . Love ya Sarah !
Jody
I think most raw foodie websites that promote green smoothies explain that you need to rotate your greens, and watch your intake of high oxalic greens. That being said, it seems rather alarmist to claim that these healthful drinks are “devastating” our health. Maybe one needs to educate themselves on how to make them in a way that is consistent with current knowledge about greens, etc. But to throw the green smoothie out because someone is doing it incorrectly seems a bit extreme.
Sandra Holbrook via Facebook
Not sure how I feel looked up the article that you referenced and it didn’t have any references so not sure what scientific evidence they are basing this on. I have small green smoothies a couple times of week for years and am healthy. I eat a balanced including lots of veggies and gras feed meats do you have any supporting research articles would like to learn more
Elizabeth K
It is extremely enlightening to read all the snide and nasty comments. Are you people reading what you write? If you don’t find Sarah’s information helpful, then don’t use it, but grow up folks, some of your comments are uncalled for.
Reema
Are you kidding?
Green smoothies are a much healthier alternative than this Standard American Diet (SAD) of processed and convenient foods that are disguised as healthy foods such as “packaged instant oatmeals” or “sugar loaded granola bars” and “calcium enriched coco krispies”.
Yes, lets continue to promote our major food manufacturing companies without a shred of regard for the health of humans.
It’s real food. It’s raw food. It’s fresh food. And it gives a person at least 3 servings of vegetables (the daily minimum is 4)
Sandy
I am so glad this article came out. I was just going to try raw vegetable juicing – something I read about on Dr. Mercola’s website. He’s such an advocate but I wouldn’t want to make it a regular practice after reading your article. Thanks!
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Sue Fowler via Facebook
As a nutritionist focusing on getting back to God’s original plan of eating for our health (whole foods in ther original form before man gets a hold of it!) it’s important to include a variety of different foods! For some, this means adding healthy Free range organic meats and for others it means eliminating them entirely! For some, their type of fast metabolism relies on the higher meat/fats proteins because it gets burned slower and for others who have a slower metabolism, they need more healthy whole forms of carbs like non gluten type grains and more veggies and lighter fats…I just think we need to be careful about HOW we put the info out there… Our foods and health are a very emotionally charged issue! : ). And we are all different in how we metabolize our food, break down the different components of foods including the acids so just use common sense if you are just starting your journey toward healing. I encourage you to stay away from any forms of fad type diets and Just eat real food, rotating so you are getting a good variety of nutrients.
Sue Fowler via Facebook
As a nutritionist focusing on getting back to God’s original plan of eating for our health (whole foods in ther original form before man gets a hold of it!) it’s important to include a variety of different foods! For some, this means adding healthy Free range organic meats and for others it means eliminating them entirely! For some, their type of fast metabolism relies on the higher meat/fats proteins because it gets burned slower and for others who have a slower metabolism, they need more healthy whole forms of carbs like non gluten type grains and more veggies and lighter fats…I just think we need to be careful about HOW we put the info out there… Our foods and health are a very emotionally charged issue! : ). And we are all different in how we metabolize our food, break down the different components of foods including the acids so just use common sense if you are just starting your journey toward healing. I encourage you to stay away from any forms of fad type diets and Just eat real food, rotating so you are getting a good variety of nutrients.
Julie Gerasimenko via Facebook
I am not mad at anybody or their opinions or even the article. I am just SO frustrated at how difficult it is to really know what is and isn’t good for me! I hear conflicting things all the time from sources I really respect and it’s all just getting to me. I think I’ll take a little break from reading anything about health for a while and just focus on what my body is telling me. I am healthy and fit so obviously I’m doing something right! I’m just gonna take a break for a while and eat whatever I want whenever I want! ( except for fast food, candy, processed foods etc.) But who knows! I’ll probably find out that Mc. donalds food is actually incredibly good for you and cures diseases! lol
Sue Fowler via Facebook
Wow definitely a lot of emotion over this post!!! As with all things, balance is key…and I agree, knowing YOUR own body is crucial! Its good to see all sides to things in life, that way we can be informed and make good decisions, so good info here…just important to do it in a way that us not alarming…definitely overwhelming and discouraging for those who are working hard on turning their unhealthy eating habits around and seeing this! All they see is don’t eat greens! Be assured that doing anything in EXCESS is not good, even drinking too much water can be a negative due to excess flushing of vital minerals…
Phoebe
The article you used as a source (and the only source) is over 2 years old. What about those people with food intolerances? Butter… I can’t ingest it. What about the magnesium that’s left in the liquid you cook the vegetables in (and why green vegetables shouldn’t be steamed – because you loose all the magnesium in the water), you really want to drain that off? What about a balanced diet? What do you recommend in the place of the greens? Victoria Boutinko, a raw vegan who has literally written a book on green smoothies, and has a lot more research to back up her pro smoothies stance then you do to back up your anti-green smoothie stance may be a good option for those that wish to continue drinking their green smoothies…
Catherine
This article confirms my suspicion about kale. I have been eating a lot more kale and spinach this spring ( the vegetable garden is full of it) than in the past. My sleep has been very disturbed by my arms going numb ( or falling asleep). First we suspected carpal tunnel and other reasons but when my husband did a search he discovered that Kale could be the culprit. I am still experimenting to confirm that it is the cause. For now all I can say is that I stopped the kale a week ago and I haven’t had a problem. This morning before reading your article I decided to give it another try to see if it will affect me. Thanks for bringing this up.
Cierra
Hi Catherine. I’m really sorry that you’ve had problems with spinach and/or kale and I hope it gets resolved but I think the point many people (including myself) are trying to make is that results may vary. There are people who eat spinach, kale and other leafy greens on a daily basis for years that have no problems at all. I think one thing that many people do is decide something is good or bad and think that it should be the absolute answer. Nothing is absolute! There are things that can be true for a large percentage of people and then could be considered a rule of thumb but I don’t see this as being one of them. Yes, if you consume a pound of spinach everyday for months you will get sick! That is a fact. This does not mean that eating them in a smaller amount a little less often is bad. Maybe spinach and kale just aren’t for you. The author just can’t push this idea on an already proven fact that leafy greens are healthy for you without much more credible proof. Don’t get me wrong, if no one challenges ideas, we don’t move forward in life and knowledge but proof is key.
Andrea
THIS POST IS SO PROBLEMATIC!!!
first, what determines a large quantity of leafy greens is not provided anywhere.
second, oxalic acid is found in many other vegetables and fruits that are not leafy greens.
third, the amount of oxalic acid varies dramatically between leafy greens.
use this as a resource to know how much oxalic acid is in a particular vegetable:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Other/oxalic.html
Watchmom3
I would personally NEVER use a link that had usda or .gov in it. Conflict of interest there…research it.
Helen T
Perfect response! It’s unfortunate, but true.
Kristen
Where is the research? Where are the testimonials from the masses suffering from disease as a result of drinking green smoothies? This is just such an overstretch of credibility that I am not sure what to say. You might be 100% right, but we just don’t know, because we don’t see any supporting documentation.
Erica Iwamura via Facebook
what is considered to be.. “the enormous quantities that people are consuming them in”.. how much is that exactly?
Kelli
I’m skeptical of this article yet I appreciate your viewpoint, Sarah. Perhaps green smoothies aren’t necessarily the best option for everyone to consume on a daily basis. I regularly eat kale salad everyday and so far haven’t had any issues, but sometimes you have to look deeper at things to get the whole picture when it comes to health.
Angela Rice
Why would eating greens in a salad from time to time be better than eating them in a smoothie from time to time? Seems to me that you’re really saying that high levels of oxalates are bad for your health. But, I do suppose the controversial title will get you a lot more hits than entitling it what you’re really trying to say.
Amanda Rhodes
Sarah, don’t let these negative comments get you down! I love your blog and always learn so much! Please don’t get discouraged because people are too thick-headed to think for themselves. Keep sounding the alarm and proclaiming the truth. They ignore it to their own detriment.
Michelle
Sarah, thanks so much for this post! I’m so glad to see more nutrition bloggers raising their audience’s awareness of oxalates, and all the negative ways in which they can affect people’s health when consumed in excess.
I’m a bit bummed to see some of the incredibly negative, and incredibly defensive reactions to this. However, I figure in the long run it’s still a good thing. If someone has a negative reaction to a post, they will hopefully remember it. So years down the line, when they’ve been on a juicing kick for a while and their health suddenly begins to decline, perhaps they’ll remember this post and “go googling” to find out if maybe, just *maybe* there was something to it. I certainly wish somebody in my social circles (either online or offline) had warned me about the effects of spinach when I was eating multiple salads of it per week. And yes, since I always had spinach in the house during that time period, it was a no-brainer to throw some into any smoothies I made.
Live and learn!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I’ve had a tremendous positive response via email .. folks who loved the post and had no idea about the danger of oxalates from a daily green smoothie habit.
The vast majority of folks are grateful when information is pointed out about something that they had no idea about and this gives them the opportunity to re-evaluate their dietary choices for the better.
There are always those who get defensive when the error of their ways is pointed out. No worries. It’s not going to slow me down.
wisdom, wine and wild daffodils via Facebook
An interesting and thoughtful perspective, and one with which I can’t really disagree, but in general a green smoothie – assuming you are not prone to oxalate kidney stones – a few times a month probably has more overall benefits than risks for most people. My feeling is that daily consumption is probably excessive, and the importance of varying ingredients to include a range of organic produce – and not just focusing on greens – in juice and smoothie form (if that’s your thing) is probably advisable for most people. It always comes back to whatever works for an individual. I guess you knew this was going to cause a bit of contention, so kudos for putting it out there! Many thanks!
Tami
I don’t have time to read all of the comments unfortunately, and am hoping most of this was pointed out. But although I appreciate the thought that one must be careful about all aspects of their diet, including not assuming just because it is a fruit, veggie or green that it is good for every person to eat in large quantities (or for anyone to eat in *large quantities*). I also think this article is sensationalized and biased in a large way. There should be discussion of the fact that it is entirely possible to make green smoothies/blended salads/juices that are not high in oxalaytes and that if you are avoiding greens for that reason then you should also be avoiding a number of other foods — many many veggies, fruits and nuts as well as grains are high in this *or other* natural food chemicals that can cause problems for SOME people (or if almost anyone if eaten in very large quanitities). So, the basic information of not going crazy about green smoothies or anything else (I’ve done the paleo thing and you can’t tell me eating as much bacon or nuts as many do is healthy either; in full disclosure gree smoothies have been a HUGE part of my own healting process, but I don’t preach them as a panecea for everyone) … “green smoothie” can cover a wide variety of ingredients … blending foods in general can be hugely benficial to those with digestive damage during the healing process (and for some basically forever). Many of us with multiple sensitivies end up feeling like we can’t eat anything when we come across “helpful” articles like this which is why I put this out for others to read — 2 things — first don’t eat the same things at every meal regardless of the “health benefits” of those foods — 2nd look into healing those senstivities with multiple methods (for me homeopathics and acupuncture and meditation are just as important ans what I do and do not eat — yes this means that with these treatments I am less sensitive to these foods so they can become a part of an over all healthy plant-based diet). — IN the end we all want the same thing — good health now and long term … let’s work together
Jodi
If you have multiple sensitivities, you will likely benefit from reading the following book: “Gut and Psychology Syndrome” by Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride MD, MMedSci(neurology), MMedSci(nutrition). Best of luck to you.
David
I never thought I’d be following up on a post I made, but after reading the 98 and counting emails since, I couldn’t help myself. I don’t think anyone is debating the fact that oxalate crystals could be a problem, and from the many comments I’ve read, is a very real problem with some individuals, but the real issue here that so far no one has given any tangible answer to is how much is too much. Our ringleader “Sarah” likes terms like “frequent” “large” and now adding “barrel” to this highly technical conversation we are all having, still dodging the questions since she obviously doesn’t have an answer. I going to go out on a limb with some real numbers to see what this blog community has to say.
We juice between 4 and 7 times a week
Approx 3oz is greens, kale spinach broccoli, any one serving could have one or all
Approx 4-5oz is fruit such as apple, pineapple, kiwi, strawberry. There again any one serving could have one or all
2 carrots
1/2 lemon
Approx 4oz water
There are some real numbers. To be honest I have no idea if anything is too much or not. Besides that fact that I hate reading vague articles geared to stirring people up, I was hoping that someone would post some real information as to where I/we could go for some nutritional facts. I have done some research but it’s like going down the rabbit hole, each question answered brings up 5 new questions, and now oxalate crystals is one of them.
As to Sarah sharing her email about some of us having oxalate crystals on the brain, I believe that would be Sarah and anyone else who has drank her oxalate kool-aid.
There is no knowledge that is not power.
PattyLA
For some real good oxalate information you need to join the yahoo group http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/
I also just did a post about what is in season now and low oxalate.. As well as what constitutes a low oxalate diet (LOD). There are plenty of LOD greens to be eaten. You just need to know what they are.
Kathryn
Just read the low oxalate diet link… that answers one of my questions. I have theoxalates, that’s a given (crystals in my urinalysis). I’ve been sick a very long time and am comensurately poor. I rent a room and have limited kitchen access. Supplements are not in the budget. What can I DO about this??
Karen Vaughan, MS Oiental Medicine
Calcium citrate, magnesium citrate (both with your green smoothie) and probiotic foods from a variety of sources.
Lindsay
It just occurred to me (I’m a little slow today apparently) that smoothies in general can’t be great for health and weight because they condense so much into an easily consumed product. It’s so typical of our society to think “if a little is good, a lot must be better!” But really, we’ve only had the technology for 50 years or so to purée a smoothies full of veggies and fruits every single day. And those awesome high powered blenders have been around even less time that that. Whether its the oxadate or the sugar content…seriously, what human without a blender could have eaten 2 cups of spinach, 2 pears, a cup of blueberries, 2 tbsps of almonds, a cup of yogurt and 3 carrots … for breakfast? Every day?
Natalie
Watch Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead – it’s free on hulu – http://www.hulu.com/watch/289122/fat-sick-and-nearly-dead
This will most certainly change your mind
Lindsay
I’ve seen it – what is it supposed to change my mind about?
Lia
I am extremely disapointed in your research on this topic, but I guess a person can’t be perfect all the time. Oxalates only cause problems in ridiculously high amounts…one Green Smoothie a day is NOT going to push someone over the Oxalate edge. For you to actually discourage people from consuming raw fruits and greens is just plain stupidity. The benefits FAR outweigh the risks and anybody that does thorough research will clearly see that you are mistaken. A Green Smoothie per day is EXACTLY what the average person on the standard american diet needs. In fact it could potentially be their only source of real nutrition. Not everybody has access to raw milk. Shame on you for writing this article.
Natalie
YES…well said Lia : Shame on you!
Pat Robinson via Facebook
Maybe just listen to YOUR body, instead of dietary dogma and dictates?
Natalie
I think your article needs to be removed or rewritten. My SIL sent this to me and I was SO mad! I am a strict vegan – I chose this lifestyle to literally save my life. I eat dark green veggies every single day and in copious amounts, and have NONE of the conditions you are alarming people about- I have blood work done 1-2x year. For your information – please read this excerpt from this exceptional book written by N.W. Walker, D. Sci. Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices. In case you don’t want to purchase the book here is an excerpt (Also, please refer to the amazing Dr. Christopher who also disagrees):
“When the food is RAW, whether whole or in the form of juice, every atom in such food is vital organic. Therefore, the oxalic acid in our raw vegetables and their juices is organic, and is not only beneficial, but essential for physiological functions of the body. The oxalic acid in COOKED and PROCESSED foods, however, is definitely dead, or inorganic, and as such is positively both pernicious and destructive. Oxalic acid readily combines with calcium. If these are both organic, the result is a beneficial constructive combination, as the former HELPS the digestive assimilation of the latter, at the same time stimulating the peristaltic functions of the body.
When the oxalic acid becomes inorganic by cooking or processing the foods that contain it, then this acid forms an interlocking compound with the calcium, even combining with the calcium in other foods eaten during the same meal, destroying the nourishing value of both. This results in such a serious deficiency of calcium that it has even been known to cause decomposition of the bones (osteoperosis). This is the reason I never eat cooked or canned spinach.
As to the oxalic acid itself, when converted into an inorganic acid by cooking or processing the food, it often results in causing inorganic oxalic acid crystals to form in the kidneys.
It is worthy of notice that the minerals in our foods, iron, for example, frequently cannot be assimilated and used completely if they have become inorganic through cooking, and often prevent the utilizing of other elements through chemical and other action. Thus, the iron in fresh, raw spinach juice may be utilized 100%, but only 1/5 of that, or less, would be availabale in cooked spinach.
It is well to bear in mind, therefore, that as the organic oxalic acid is so vital to our well-being, the fresh raw juice of the vegetable containing it should be used daily to supplement the eating of these raw vegetables included in our DAILY salads.
The most abundant supply of organic oxalic acid is found in fresh raw spinach and rhubarb.”
Watchmom3
Natalie, are you saying that what you believe works for EVERYONE? NO EXCLUSIONS? No? Neither is Sarah.
Watchmom3
One more thing…I can tell you what my experience has been…watching my precious loved one die SLOW and PAINFUL from cancer and wanting desperately to find what would work for HIM. Not everything that was recommended was right for HIM. (lots of alphabet letters behind their names…) We tried and some things didn’t work. THAT will be the moment when you KNOW that everyone has to decide for themselves based on their understanding and experience. YOU CAN”T CHOOSE FOR OTHERS. It will break your heart, but leave you with the knowledge that it is a personal decision and NO ONE has the right to stop you from trying to find what you need.
Pingback: Why Green Smoothies Will NOT Devastate Your Health | Incredible Smoothies
Jocelyn
Sarah, I enjoy your blog and appreciate your work in getting the word out about healthy eating. I agree with most of the principles of WAPF that you promote. However, your perspective on green smoothies is something I would disagree with. My family and I have been consuming about 1 green smoothie everyday for the past 5-6 years and we love it and have not gotten sick at all from it. It is a very important part of our diet and one that we promote to others.
Our diet is primarily raw (at least half and as high as 85% a lot of times) and we also eat natural grassfed animal products, cooked veggies, healthy fats, raw dairy, and fermented/soaked foods (grains, kefir, kombucha, etc). At one point early in our raw food journey, we became 100% raw and vegetarian. I even got certified as a raw food teacher. However, that didn’t last long because we didn’t agree with vegetarianism and we also believed in the importance of some cooked foods in our diet. But we still advocate a high raw foods diet, along with other principles that even WAPF promotes (ie: traditional, real foods)
The perspective of your article to *stay away* from green smoothies (and fresh juice) is one that I think is not totally balanced. I personally believe that there are too many benefits in raw greens to ignore it. Robyn Openshaw from GreenSmoothieGirl.com has addressed this issue of oxalates many times on her blog. Here’s a post that provides links to her oxalates posts: [Click Here]
Thanks again for all you do, Sarah! This is just an area I would respectfully disagree with you on.
Watchmom3
Thank you Jocelyn, for showing others how to respectfully disagree. If Sarah hadn’t been the kind of person who has had to respectfully disagree with others at some point in her life, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Why people don’t want to allow the discussion, I will never understand. Truth stands on it’s own. Just stand back and watch to see if it stands or falls, but allow the choice to decide, to be made by each person. Some things take time to figure out… just because someone says it, doesn’t make it so. I appreciate your opinion.
Lisa Christine Pearson via Facebook
WHAT IN THE WORLD??? Attacking green smoothies? WOW! There are so many worse thing that people put into their bodies in an attempt to lose weight. This article in bull! And I don’t know ANYONE who’s health has been made worse by drinking green smoothies–not a single person!
Sue B
Good thing you don’t know me – I would blow your paradigm.
Kathryn
Two questions: would consuming calcium with oxalates cause the calcium oxalate to precipitate so that it is eliminated via the gut, or so that it embeds in body tissue? (I’ve been reading that calcium can be very heart-health detrimental, even on greenmedinfo.) Also, do probiotics help with oxalates by de-fanging them directly our by healing leaky gut in a way that prevents them from being absorbed into the bloodstream?
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I certainly wouldn’t be taking that chance. Why consume them in green smoothies in such ridiculously large quantities? It is counter-intuitive and no traditional culture ever consumed their greens this way. You are experimenting with your health by participating in this dangerous fad.
Scott Vess via Facebook
http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2012/02/20/are-green-smoothies-actually-bad-for-you
Brandie Nadiger-Harrop via Facebook
did someone hack your page???
Jodi
While I absolutely love your blog Sarah, I do think this particular article was either
A. Poorly researched
B. Mis-titled
I think the outrage in response is because you’ve made a blanket statement about green smoothies solely based on the topic of oxalic acid, when not all green smoothies are high in oxalic acid. That would be like saying do not drink water because water contains fluoride. It’s an unjust statement. May have been more appropriate to say “Skip the High Oxalate Foods in Green Smoothies” as opposed to telling people to skip green smoothies. The source article is a great one, by the way, thanks!
Green smoothies can be incredibly beneficial to health! Not all greens (or green smoothie ingredients) are high in oxalic acid. Honestly, the biggest health threat I witness when it comes to green smoothies, is the over-use of sugar (even in the form of using excess fruit and very little green, which causes insulin spikes). Also, there are ways to neutralize oxalic acid.
However, people do not have to be so mean. If ya’ll differ in opinion, how about a healthy debate or providing some additional facts as opposed to being downright cruel in response? Nobody is perfect and anybody can overlook facts, sheesh.
The following information may be helpful.
ABOUT OXALIC ACID
* – “Oxalates are naturally-occurring substances found in plants, animals, and in humans. Our bodies always contain oxalates, and our cells routinely convert other substances into oxalates. For example, vitamin C is one of the substances that our cells routinely convert into oxalates. In addition to the oxalates that are made inside of our body, oxalates can arrive at our body from the outside, from certain foods that contain them. (whfoods1)
* – Oxalic acid binds with calcium to form calcium oxalate, an insoluble salt. It also binds to other minerals, preventing their absorption by the body (pHbalance)
* – “Although oxalic acid can be a toxin, you would need to eat extremely large amounts of vegetables that contain the substance before it would cause any health issues.” (eHow)
* – “It is not clear from the research, however, that restriction of dietary oxalate helps prevent formation of calcium oxalate stones in individuals who have previously formed such stones. Since intake of dietary oxalate accounts for only 10-15% of the oxalate that is found in the urine of individuals who form calcium oxalate stones, many researchers believe that dietary restriction cannot significantly reduce risk of stone formation.” (whfoods1)
* – “Cooking has a relatively small impact on the oxalate content of foods. Repeated food chemistry studies have shown no statistically significant lowering of oxalate content following the blanching or boiling of green leafy vegetables. A lowering of oxalate content by about 5-15% is the most you should expect when cooking a high-oxalate food. It does not make sense to overcook oxalate-containing foods in order to reduce their oxalate content. Because many vitamins and minerals are lost from overcooking more quickly than are oxalates, the overcooking of foods (particularly vegetables) will simply result in a far less nutritious diet that is minimally lower in oxalates.” (whfoods1)
TO NEUTRALIZE OXALIC ACID:
* – “Drink plenty of water each day. One factor in the formation of kidney stones is low levels of liquid in urine. Drinking water will counteract that problem and neutralize oxalate. Monitor your water intake to ensure you drink at least eight glasses or more of water daily.” (Livestrong)
* – “Add 2 cups of calcium-fortified orange juice to breakfast. Citrus juices contain citric acid and may neutralize some products in urine, including oxalic acid. Science has yet to prove this, but MayoClinic.com lists citrus juice as one alternative medicine for treatment of kidney stones.” (Livestrong)
* – Good gut flora will neutralize oxalic acid (Cookwell)
* – Fermenting foods will neutralize oxalic acid (Cookwell)
* – Add an egg shell to spinach while cooking, it will bind the oxalic acid. (pHbalance)
* – Add calcium carbonate to your greens while cooking. Cooking itself does release much of the oxalic acid, but adding calcium carbonate while cooking removes even more. The calcium carbonate combines to the oxalic acid and removes it from the food. Very little calcium carbonate is needed to make it effective. One tsp. per pot of water is plenty for these purposes. You can buy calcium carbonate powder from most health stores or even online health food retailers. (eHow)
OXALIC ACID CONTENT IN FOODS
* – Kale has only .02g of oxalic acid per 100g. On the other hand, there is a whopping 97g oxalic acid per 100g of spinach. (Guinealynx)
* – http://www.guinealynx.info/diet_oxalic.html
SOURCES
whfoods1 – http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48
whfoods2 – http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=38
Livestrong – http://www.livestrong.com/article/268569-how-to-neutralize-oxalates-in-a-diet/
eHow – http://www.ehow.com/how_5859381_break-down-oxalic-acid-food.html
pHbalance – http://phbalance.wikispaces.com/Oxalic+Acid+Issues
Guinealynx – http://www.guinealynx.info/diet_oxalic.html
CookWell – http://cookwellforlife.blogspot.com/2011/03/oxalic-acid-veggies-probiotics.html
Eliza
Beautifully put.
Jodi
Thank you. Correction on the very last bullet. Spinach has a whopping .97g, NOT 97g lol
prime
THANK YOU Jodi!
Someone with an actual education!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Prime, you might be interested to know that the inspiration for this post came from a talk I saw last week from Dr. Kaayla Daniel PhD in Nutrition – author of The Whole Soy Story who was expounding on the health dangers of high oxalate foods and how foolish people are for consuming large amounts of them. Of course, this likely won’t be good enough for you. You will find some other reason why the information is wrong and why you are right.
Jodi
Prime,
Actually, according to her listed credentials, Sarah’s college education is higher than mine
I have never met Sarah in person, but I do respect her as an individual. She does a lot of good for people in general, and for those trying to get well from being very sick. I know, because I am one of them. Her videos and blog posts have served invaluable in helping me to understand traditional eating and getting me on my way to healing (thank you Sarah!). Not to mention that she gives this information away for free where others are literally charging hundreds of dollars for it.
While I do not always agree with everything Sarah says, or how she portrays the information she’s sharing, I wouldn’t dream of insulting her. Quite frankly, I am dumb-founded by the multitude of nasty responses to this post. It’s so unnecessary. It really just only makes the insulting person look bad in my opinion.
I’ve always felt that a good gauge of a person’s character is to look at his or her intent. Sarah’s blog post about green smoothies was clearly not written with malicious or deceitful intent. While I personally feel this blog is a bit misleading and has caused unnecessary confusion and fear, it is still quite informative and it wasn’t written with the intent to hurt others. Seems to me that she wrote it to warn others of the potential dangers of high oxalate foods and in using those foods in large amounts in green smoothies – and perhaps to employ traditional eating habits instead of green smoothies. The post doesn’t particularly read this way, depending on how you look at it, but I believe that was her intent, at least in part.
Yet I have to ask, what is the intent behind all of the malicious comments of so many people here? What does one gain by insulting another? What’s the pay-off? I don’t get it.
I don’t agree with Sarah’s assertion that we shouldn’t drink green smoothies (although it appears to be sound advice to those with leaky gut syndrome), but I’m not going to come on here and insult her because I have a difference of opinion. What purpose does that serve? Uh, none.
Yes, a more accurate title of the blog post may have been something like “How Oxalic Acids Can Devastate Your Health”. However, this would not have landed the attention of green smoothie consumers. Perhaps Sarah’s goal was to alert green smoothie consumers about the potential dangers of oxalic acids. In which case, the title serves its purpose well.
The truth of the matter is that EVERY green contains an alkaloid, and the buildup of these alkaloids in the body is toxic. I know this from reading Victoria Boutenko’s book, “Green for Life”. I also know that it is important to rotate greens when juicing or consuming green smoothies. Yet many people have not read this book and are not aware of this fact. Enter Sarah’s blog post. She put information out there that should alert one to further research if they are not familiar with the topic. She also alerts those with leaky gut to reconsider consuming high oxalate foods.
Furthermore, posts about how Sarah shouldn’t be writing about food because she isn’t a Nutritionist, I think, is very harmful to freedom of speech in general. An innocent blogger’s site was recently attacked by a dietician board, making those very same assertions (http://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2012/01/28/this-site-free-speech-are-being-investigated/). Please do not fuel that type of fire.
It is our responsibility, as individuals, to discern between good and bad information, and to know what is right for our own body as an individual. It is our responsibility to seek further information if something doesn’t sit right in our gut. That is what I did. I sought further information, and shared what I found. It is debatable whether the information I shared is accurate. After all, I pulled this information off of other websites. I didn’t check the research or references and I have no idea how valid the information really is. It is simply an opposing view to prompt others to research for themselves.
One other thing, when I am deciding on what type of diet or protocol to follow? I always, *always* pay attention to what the person looks like, who is promoting that method. If somebody is promoting a specific type of diet and they don’t exactly look healthy? It might be a good idea to consider the source.
Sarah,
my boyfriend and I have discussed this very topic, and we both agree that you are the perfect picture of health. Great hair, glowing skin, nice teeth, and proportionate – and I like your wardrobe :op Thanks for all you do!
Prime,
Victoria Boutenko is a wealth of information when it comes to green smoothies. Here are some links to the information you may be seeking. If it doesn’t list what you need, purchase her book, “Green Smoothies for Life”. Either way, the insults really serve no purpose.
Green Smoothie Consumption Guidelines and Common Questions (How much is too much):
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/green-smoothie-questions/
Guidelines for drinking greens smoothies. Take note of Emilyb’s comments:
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/guidelines-green-smoothies/
Frequently asked questions about green smoothies:
http://greenforlife.com/gsfaq.htm
Why you should rotate greens:
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/green-smoothie-rotate/
How to Choose Greens for a Green Smoothie:
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/greens-for-green-smoothie/
Food Combining and Green Smoothies:
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/food-combining-in-green-smoothies/
Also, take note of what’s under the “Treatment” heading of the source article that Sarah provided a link to. William Shaw describes doses and timing in which to take calcium citrate in order to have it bind to oxalate and cause it to not be absorbed. Based on that, alone, I consider Sarah’s post invaluable, because it leads every single reader to an article that tells each one of us how to protect ourselves from oxalates, whether we are consuming green smoothies with swiss chard, or cooking them and slathering butter on them! I consider that a service to us all.
It’s just sad that people are now proliferating the information in a very misunderstood way (see trackback posts). Yet another example of how we all need to do our own research. Speaking of which, here is an excellent follow-on post: http://oxvox.com/backing-it-up-with-science-can-green-smoothies-really-destroy-health/
Jodi
Sarah,
Did you see Victoria Boutenko’s response to this post? What do you think about it? It’s very well researched…
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/oxalic-acid-and-green-smoothies/
Carlalynn Likich
Thank you, Jodi, for a well-balanced, informed and reasoned reply…and also for the information and links. It’s a few months after these notes posted now but I’m just beginning my investigation into this area. I would like to encourage anyone reading my post to consider that each individual has to follow his or her own best path for their bodies’ nutritional needs. We are each unique, have our own DNA, heritage, environment, needs – nature and nurture, essentially, and have our own ‘private’, as in no one else is in exactly the same place or on the same road, deficiencies and health issues. For myself, I vastly improved my health with a whole, living foods lifestyle beginning 2.5 years ago, and of course green smoothies are a staple, but I live in a northern climate, so have happily included some cooked foods when I feel the need.
A side note: I make my smoothies thick, so they need ‘chewing’ and my saliva is activated for improved digestion, but for those who just want to eat greens straight, consider the IDEA that we don’t have the jaw strength that used to exist, nor do all of us have our wisdom teeth any more, which would have been used to break apart the tough cell walls that greens have, AND we do not generally spend nearly enough time chewing them to break them down sufficiently for optimal digestion. Thus some of the main benefits of smoothies with leafy greens…per a lecture by Victoria Boutenko on Dec. 3, 2012. She also gave proof of the fact that greens HAVE been eaten raw by humans for hundreds, if not thousands of years: had a page from a 14th century ‘Olde Englishe’ book that gave ingredients and directions for making a ‘salat’ – salad – that was full of greens: the main difference is probably in cultivated vs. wild greens! That matter right there may have a big place in this discussion, but I don’t personally know that for a fact – yet! (Sarah, (or Jodi), have you looked into this subject at all? I haven’t much to date but am aware of the wild-harvesting movement, and the supposed massive benefits of ‘free-range plants’, for lack of a better term!)
Also, and these are the main ideas that attracted me to them in the first place, green smoothies provide a way (so far as I know and have EXPERIENCED) to moderate the sugar levels in fruits and at the same time feed our largely greens-deficient bodies to begin the reversal of health problems and hopefully restore ourselves to good, balanced wellness. Lest anyone wish to question that assertion, may I reiterate that this has been MY journey, (along with many others, some of whom have written here!) and reassure any readers that I utilize a plethora of other foods and prep methods…and am constantly learning about, evaluating and trying out more options.
HOWEVER…I have had underlying and supposedly undiagnosable health issues (headaches and fatigue, but more low-level stuff that, sadly, no ‘western’-trained doc has ever been able to adequately name or address), since I was 16 – it’s coming up on 30 years, so you can imagine my relief and joy at finding SOMETHING that helped me to feel better. At this point, then, I am finally feeling strong enough to delve into what my deep-seated health issues might be and from whence they came! According to one diagnostic method I’ve utilized, I do have quite an issue with several kinds of fungus and mold as well as calcium ‘collections’ that could turn into stones if not dissipated asap. My thinking on this, though, after several days of reflection, is that, unlike the way many are interpreting this informational blog, it’s good to be aware of possible issues with foods and oxalates, (really for anything we do), and I’m willing to research it further and determine if, FOR MYSELF, I feel that this potential danger outweighs the obvious benefits. (The information I had been aware of up to this point indicated that to reach toxic levels, the amount of greens would have to be VERY high, like more than anyone could comfortably consume, and that we’d know it when we reached ‘saturation’, as do wild animals who nibble on this and then that green plant all day long…that perspective still makes a lot of sense to me!) I’ve bookmarked your links to the GAPS diet and will look into that further – there really are a lot of issues and and a lot more treatments out there: may we each use our own innate and God-given wise sense of ourselves ALONG with other resources to choose well what we do each day!
( Sarah, I’m new here but I’m going to be bold and make a personal observation to you that I hope you will take in the spirit of concern which I intend: I came very close to tuning you out when I first tried to read several posts, as I felt put off by what can come across as a harsh attitude toward theories and philosophies that don’t seem to fit into your personal preferences, or that you feel justified in criticizing ‘scientifically’. I realize that you are a proponent of “Real Food” but does that have to mean that every other way of living and eating is necessarily flawed? That is truly the impression I get. Take this article, for instance: it is an admittedly attention-getting yet deceptive title, and, honestly, although I can understand and appreciate what you are saying, I don’t get much of a sense of compassion, care, concern or love from your writing, which is what I would look for from someone who is advocating their chosen diet and lifestyle as the way to optimum health. Nor do I feel that you’ve given even a nod, let alone a balanced view to the benefits of large (and varied) amounts of other kinds of greens that may be used as substitutes for spinach and such, if someone wanted to balance things out better. I guess the idea of honey being more attractive than vinegar (and not just to pesky little flies) comes to mind – maybe I’ve got a similar bent and so am more willing to address the controversy that seems to come up so often. The stress and ‘negative’ feelings (some would say energy) that I’ve seen generated here is, in my personal experience, probably MORE toxic that most foods that we’re trying to encourage others not to eat: hence, it defeats what I hope and assume is your whole purpose: to educate and inform, but beyond that, to uplift, heal and live a joyful, purposeful and meaningful life! So as not to be unbalanced myself here, I do thank you for your willingness to address potential issues and maybe ‘holes’ in people’s knowledge, and to put forth the effort that it must take to create and maintain a site like yours, let alone keep up with and hopefully enjoy the requirements involved in a healthy lifestyle these days!
Barbara LaRosa via Facebook
If everyone slept on a biomat we wouldn’t need to have this discussion, it will detox you gradually over days and weeks, raise your immunity and help to balance your enzyme production and increase your absorption of nutrients, thus removing the fear factor that is being projected by all , my site crystals.thebiomatcompany.com.NOTHING LIKE IT
Jodi
How does the biomat regulate intestinal flora??
Elizabeth Pelegrin-New via Facebook
^^ Don’t be!! It’s a BLOG~not a scientific study!! Keep drinking your green smoothies… I have NEVER ONCE met ANYONE who’s health has been “Devastated” by a green smoothie…
Barbara LaRosa via Facebook
N.W. Walker pretty well known authority on juicing claims to never eat spinach cook because of release of oxalic acid.I have owned his book since 1971 and made that a golden rule
Julie Gerasimenko via Facebook
It’s stuff like this that makes me want to give up even trying to be healthy! WTH??? What IS good for us. I’m pissed right now.
Kimberly Clemons via Facebook
total rubbish
Kami Fiechter-Bear via Facebook
I don’t agree with this at all :).
Brittany @ The Pistachio Project
Sarah,
I just wanted to say that I understood what you were trying to relay in this post. You were simply pointing out a flaw in a common fad and wanted others to know that despite it seeming all healthy, there are concerns with it.
So many people think that if it’s a vegetable or whole grain or whatever than it must be healthy but they do not take the time to realize that some foods are best eaten when prepared a certain way or not eaten in excess.
Thank you for your post and keep up the good work!
Joy McCarthy
I really don’t think anyone is going to go on a green smoothie rage ONLY putting leafy greens into a smoothie for weeks at a time. This article is totally written from an alarmist point of view and rather pointless.
I recommend smoothies all the time as Certified/Registered nutritionist to my clients, especially those who are breakfast skippers. However, I always suggest they mix things up, include a quality protein source as well and keep the variety going with the fruits and veggies.
Perhaps that would be a great follow up to this post — to talk about the benefits of greens, but to make sure you have variety.
It’s too bad you chose this direction for your article as it sends the wrong message.
Ruth Parrish Ankney via Facebook
I’m always telling my husband who loves large green salads all the time, that salads make me sad. I was joking but maybe not!
Mindy Pallagi via Facebook
This post is offensive.
Jessie TreeNickle via Facebook
There is a huge difference in a smoothie and a salad. The action of grinding up food in a blender and in your mouth are not nearly the same. Humans were designed to chew their food not to drink it on ice. While a smoothie can be a treat it is more benificial to consume your greens the way nature intended. Adding fruits to balance the Ph of your smoothie would aslo be better for you.
Dawn Houghton via Facebook
I’m dismayed at your attack on green smoothies, to the point that you are scaring people away from taking one of the most important steps towards healing they could make. Whilst there is a tiny tiny bit of truth about oxalates in the brassica family there are far more GOOD points about green smoothies. As a detox coach and certified raw chef I advocate blended foods for anyone going into recovery and transition to live foods, green smoothies containing small amounts of fruit (ONE banana or some mango for example) avocado, green leaves including lettuce family, some spinach or kale and LOTS of cucumber, some courgette and celery are very alkaline, detoxifying, hydrating, healing and full of enzymes, amino acids and plant based calcium. Blended foods are very easy to digest as the process is done in the blender, allowing the digestive system to adjust to the enzyme rich contents that ignite the highly diminished ‘fire’ from a life of eating DEAD cooked foods. go a step further into JUICING and health is enhanced even more and often faster. One of the big issues I often see, and have experienced personally, with green smoothies is the temptation to eat far too much sweet FRUITS in the attempt to disguise the taste of the greens…fine for a short time of say a week, while getting used to a new way of eating, but once we move into that new space, cut out the sweet fruit entirely for the most beneficial effects. Sweet fruit is far better enjoyed eaten WHOLE and in small amounts. Stick to the super low glycemic fruits like apple, summer berries in season and ORGANIC, but again go easy unless you are a performance athlete and can convert all the glucose to energy and not fat. Your advice to cook vegetables in lots of butter really is NOT healthy at all, and would do exactly the opposite of making the lovely leafy veg digestible.
Rachel MacPherson Crouse via Facebook
Ashley Bechtold — I think you’re on the wrong blog. Yes, bacon and eggs (pasture raised, etc.) is a fantastic breakfast.
TinaC
Those of you trashing Sarah’s opinion on this because “it just doesn’t seem right”, maybe some more research of your own is in order before lashing out in such a way. And, in fact, she does point out that not everyone has an issue with this, just a significant percentage. So one or two examples of people not having a problem after consuming lots of green smoothies doesn’t really mean anything. There are people who smoke all their lives and don’t get cancer, but that isn’t a fair representation of the dangers of smoking for most people.
Julie K
Just coconut milk and some celery with a few sticks broccoli in it and a little fruit – is that a better smoothie?
Rachel MacPherson Crouse via Facebook
Bonnie Rose Shaw — you’d have to know and research more about traditional diets to understand where she’s coming from with the butter thing…. And also the cholesterol issue…
PattyLA
I am so glad that you are talking about this! I was very pleased that it made it into your presentation about Broth this weekend as well. I wanted to tell you so in person but you were busy.
More people need to know about the damage that high oxalate foods can do to so many people and you won’t know till it is too late. Detoxing from oxalates usually takes years. It is similar to eliminating heavy metals from the body. My daughter and I have been on a strict low oxalate diet (LOD) for over a year and still have more stored oxalate to eliminate but we are seeing such health improvements that it is really worth it. Sadly so many foods will never be in our diet again like spinach and almonds. They just have far too much oxalate to ever risk it.
It is not uncommon to feel worse after you reduce oxalates in your diet since your body will switch from storage mode to elimination mode when you do so. Don’t fool yourself that you can continue in storage mode forever. Sooner or later your capacity to store oxalates will become full and then you will have symptoms all the time and have a huge body burden to eliminate. Do not eliminate all high oxalate foods at once! The body will dump too much at once and can cause kidney stones or other serious problems. Slowly step down your oxalate intake over time.
I will urge anyone who wants to know more to go join the Trying Low Oxalates Yahoo group health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/ The list owner is an independent researcher who is dedicating her life to understanding oxalates. She knows more than anyone else on the subject.
I also wrote a blog post about oxalates http://www.lovingourguts.com/2011/12/what-are-oxalates.html
Beth
Patty, thank you so much for the helpful information you shared! Very much appreciated.
Lisa Steel via Facebook
Not sure if I read the same article that everyone else because I do not understand the negative response by some. she points out that the green smoothies or a high diet of oxalates could be harmful to those 20% of people who’s bodies have problems with oxalates. I am one of those 20% and I have kidney stones. There are other sources that suggest a low diet of oxalate for us kidney stone sufferers and even the mayo clinic’s advise is to stay away from spinach. I think this article is relative to some and not the most. Like all things in life,take what applies to you and your situation and leave the rest.
Lisa Steel via Facebook
Not sure if I read the same article that everyone else because I do not understand the negative response by some. she points out that the green smoothies or a high diet of oxalates could be harmful to those 20% of people who’s bodies have problems with oxalates. I am one of those 20% and I have kidney stones. There are other sources that suggest a low diet of oxalate for us kidney stone sufferers and even the mayo clinic’s advise is to stay away from spinach. I think this article is relative to some and not the most. Like all things in life,take what applies to you and your situation and leave the rest.
Joanna
That should be kale or spinach have their place just not every day?
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Not everyday and not in large amounts such as what you can stuff into a green smoothie! Americans like to do everything to excess and it is a real problem when it comes to food. You can die from drinking too much water .. too much of anything even if a good choice is foolish.
Matt
I love this post Sarah, how you take a stand for difficult issues and how you so politely respond to all of the misinformed, angry, hostile comments. I have many friends who have gone on “juice fasts” after watching a certain popular documentary. Many of them rave about how its permanently improved their health, including my parents, so this issue is important to me.
I have a question for you, Sarah. My wife has been struggling with annoying dandruff for a couple years, and I have very slight dandruff. Could oxalate or candida be the culprit? We eat lots of almond butter, almonds, sweet potatoes, carrots, and brussels sprouts baked in coconut oil, but not a lot of leafy greens. We eat very healthy traditional foods, about 1/2 vegetables 1/4 grass fed meats, and 1/4 soaked beans, lentils, seeds, or steel cut oats. Would you recommend we change anything? I’m struggling to figure out which vegetables we should increase and which we should decrease. Thanks in advance for your help!
PattyLA
1 oz of almonds has 134.85 mg oxalate. A low oxalate diet limits daily intake to a total of 40-60 mg. 1/2 a cup of mashed baked sweet potato has 87.6 mg oxalate. Beans also have a lot of oxalate in general. Red lentils are low. Lima beans are medium. Oats aren’t low but they are lower than the other foods you eat.
Joanna
The title of the post was strong and yet lots of people read it! Perhaps the issue is moderation? Kale or spinach have their place just every day? Hence eating seasonally is a good idea.
PattyLA
I have an oxalte problem. Spinach is extraordinarily high in oxalates. I don’t expect to ever consume it again. I gave myself kidney stones after just a month of eating it regularly in my scrambled eggs thinking I was doing myself a favor (this was cooked and drained spinach). The Trying Low Oxalates yahoo group I am in has story after story of people who thought they were getting healthier eating more spinach salads and ended up with declining health and often kidney stones or fibromyalgia.
David Jackson via Facebook
seriously disagree.
Kathryn
Due to being brought up on canned food and the very worst sort of SAD diet, I have a long history of fungal problems (40 years worth – I am 59) including IBS, bad facial complexion, severe dandruff/bleeding scalp, skin rashes, nail infections, gallstone/cholocystitis, nasal fungus infections and other herpes-like lesions that heal when treated with antifungals like Naftin, vaginitis, and severe vulvodynia. More than once I was given months of massive doses of liver-compromising Diflucan (200mg/bid).
I recently lost over 100 pounds on a superfood-laced green smoothie-based diet. During that time I also strictly avoided sugar and processed starches. Many of the above conditions cleared up beautifully, including horrible fibromyalgia pain. Within months of reintroducing sugar and starches to my diet ALL of those symptoms returned with a vengeance and the weight started to pile back on, even though I continued to drink a reduced quantity of green smoothies daily. Our caveman ancestors, without benefit of water-tight containers and a couple of weeks to kill ALWAYS fermented their greens before putting them in their mouths? Puh-lease! Could you possibly use you time and talent to help determine how to undo the oxalate damage done by processed foods instead of wildly bashing something as beneficial as raw greens?
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Nothing wrong with raw greens. I am in no way bashing them. I am bashing the foolish and misguided practice of stuffing large amounts of raw leafy greens into a blender and making a green smoothie with them day in and day out. You will pay for this ridiculous habit with your health one way or the other.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Kidney stones is the tip of the iceberg and folks with fungal problems have an oxalate problem already which makes reducing dietary sources even more important as explained in the article.
Carrie
I also forgot to mention that i am shocked at how many rude comments there are. There are better and more appropriate ways to express discontent.
And as well, for those who may not have heard of it, the GAPS (gut and psycology syndrome) Diet (way of eating-not fad) is a good resource to research as it comes from a doctor who has devoted so much time to this area.
Many blessing t all those who are trying to sort out this information as i am.
almira @healthy republic
Hi Sarah, I’m wondering how you feel about the Gerson Therapy for cancer? It is a heavy duty juicing healing protocol. I believe carrots are the most juiced though. I was under the impression (even Dr Natasha Campell McBride requires juicing for GAPS) that juicing was a detoxifier and green smoothies are a descent source of vitamins and minerals in their whole form? Are all produce to be cooked in fats? I feel so good after I eat a salad, green smoothie or juice, how often would you say is ok? Thanks! And great responses to some of these very negative and accusatory comments as though you were beheading kittens!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Vegetable juicing is proven way to detoxify the body no doubt about it. However, if continued for long periods of time with high oxalate veggies this can lead to major issues. There are other holistic cancer treating protocols that incorporate the positive aspects of juicing but avoid the pitfalls which it is beyond the scope of this comment to go into.
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
I think “scope” is an important point after reading through many of the comments on this page.
Should a blogger really be expected to write an entire 1000-page biochemistry textbook every time they open their mouth? My guess is that would probably impede the spread of information which could be helpful to certain people doing certain things in the name of health . . .
Julie K
Sarah,
I have been told by my D.O. to not eat fermented products right now but to have a 50% raw diet. I like spinach and mixed greens. I do not have smoothies every day any more, but give them to my 2 boys. I eat a lot of broccoli and cauliflower too, cucumber, asparagus etc. ARe those included too as oxalates. No carrots or veggies that are sweet!
I have candida in my blood and so was staying away from too many carbs, too much fermented foods, cheese, sour cream, homemade pickles etc….. No yeast products and gluten free, not much left to choose from except raw milk and other veggies
Barbara LaRosa via Facebook
Victoria Boutenko claims that it is very important to rotate greens by using a large variety of leafy greens.
Chris Sauter
What an irresponsible alarmist article! She essentially copied the scary parts from the source article listed at the bottom and conveniently left out facts like “about fifty percent of oxalate comes from the diet and the other fifty percent comes from what your body makes itself.” Also, the original article mentioned calcium citrate as a way to remove the harmful effects of oxalates. She forgot to mention that too because her goal wasn’t to inform you, it was to scare you! Just don’t make spinach, soy protein or any other food rich in oxalates your primary food source. Removing raw kale or spinach from your diet because there is a small chance you might get a kidney stone is a disturbing recommendation.
Seana
I hardly think fear was what Sarah was going for when she wrote this blog. As someone who struggles with Candida and kidney stones, I appreciated the information.
Barb
Maybe many of you don’t realize the HUGE quantities of smoothies people are drinking every day as meal replacements. It’s ridiculous.
Carrie
i was intialy captivatd by the title of the article and then shocked by what i read in it. i suppose eating too much of one thing and not balancing it out with other healthy things is logical. i have been in a health struggle for the past 3-4 years trying to go from being overwieght/obese to a normal/healthy wieght so as to not put any extra pressure on my body and organs. i am still tying to understand how to lose wieght and stay healthy at the same time. there are so many ‘schools of thought’ on this topic and none of them agree. i have listened/watched all of the WAP vlogs and recorded seminars i can get my hands on. there are indeed qualified doctors and scientists who can validate the information they are presenting. i am inclined to stay an avid follower of WAPF (incuding Sarah and Sally F.) for the value they give me in my journey to health. i long ago gave up paying attention to mainstream media that wagon-jumps one health fad for another; all neglecting some health component or another.
Sarah, i do have concerns though. Have you ever addressed (an article?) how an existing overwieght person can lose weight steadily and maintain that weight loss using the WAPF principles? I am concerned that i will have cosume large amounts of fat to stay full and keep me from getting hungry and eating every 2 hours. Especially in light of this blog about cutting back on greens (salads) and raw veg (my fav). The only thing i know for 100% certainty is that the more i know (and learn), the more i don’t know. It is very disconcerting to say the least.
I am just tying to be provide the healthiest home i can for my family and myself. I have a husband who requires lots of calories due to his size and work environment, and 2 growing boys 7 and 4 (quite lean) who also require lots of calories throughout the day. I often fall back on quick processed foods like crackers and granola bars to fill in the time between meals. When i have them, raw veggis are also offered and this info adds to my confusion.
Please, please, HELP!!
Carrie
For those who experience good or great results with certain ways of eating, it would stand to reason that if a food, even a healthy one, makes you ill you would stop eating it or at the very least, reduce/limit/eliminate its consumption based on our individual circumstance. an ounce of LOGIC is worth a pound of cure.
Sally
Carrie you need to try Diana Schwarzbein “4 square meal” ideas mixed with WAPF ideas and get the carbs under control. Balance is important as well as nutritional foods. Keeping fats, protein, carbs and low/no carb vegetables all in balance for your activity level is easier than you think. Children have different nutritional requirements. Realizing most of my food was carb based has really changed my life.
Jodi
Carrie,
I empathize with your situation. I had very severe health problems, mainly due to excessive weight. I ate a whole foods, mainly organic diet. I didn’t eat packaged or boxed food at all. I literally exercised two to three hours a day, and my weight would not budge.
Finally I got the book titled “The Glycemic-Load Diet: A powerful new program for losing weight and reversing insulin resistance” by Rob Thompson. The change was really simple. I cut out all GRAINS from my diet and all sugar. I walked 30 minutes every other day. And I dumped forty pounds very quickly and easily, never to have gained it back. I also stay away from high glycemic foods that cause insulin spikes.
The book explains how, for some people, grains and sugar are like a toxin to them. I must be one of them because if I eat grains or sugar I will immediately gain weight. The scale the very next day goes up! It’s quite bizarre. Nothing else I tried worked. I have read about others following what is called a “Paleo diet” (Aka Stoneage diet, primal diet, caveman diet) and accomplish the same.
I was pre-diabetic, obese, had peripheral neuropathy and a plethora of health ailments. I was even on medication for the pre-diabetes. I no longer deal with these health issues and I no longer take medication for pre-diabetes! All I did was simply cut out grains (including corn), sugar, and high glycemic fruit/veggies, and walked thirty minutes every other day. I have read about many folks that have reversed out disease by doing the same or similar.
Today, I have taken it one step further and I follow the Weston A. Price Foundation and traditional eating (I also juice greens) and I feel it has contributed greatly to the improvement of my health in regard to other ailments I am faced with… but I still don’t eat grains or sugar (although I do use maple syrup and raw honey sparingly on occasion).
I get my recipes from Sally Fallon’s “Nourishing Traditions” cookbook. The home-made chicken stock, fish stock, kefir, beet kvass, sauerkraut & other fermented veggies are all daily staples in my diet, as is raw, grass fed butter. The organ meets are weekly staples in my diet. I also juice greens daily (I do not juice high oxalate greens).
Sarah’s videos are very helpful and informative in terms of how to prepare foods the traditional way. If you haven’t seen the video portion of her site, check them out!
Best of luck to you.
That book is available here:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Glycemic-Load-Diet-reversing-resistance/dp/0071462694/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337875693&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Traditions-Challenges-Politically-Dictocrats/dp/0967089735/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337876946&sr=1-1
Kelly L
Wow, Sarah, there is sure a long list of comments! I, for one, would love to learn more about this issue. Would you consider writing some more on this subject so we can better educate ourselves on this touchy topic?
Johanna Altmann via Facebook
Its funny, all the green smoothie types often scoff at my healthy high fat diet. Sigh. Great article!
Melissa Northrop Smart via Facebook
Good to know.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
A reader just sent me the funniest comment via email … ‘it seems from the nasty comments on your post today that many folks out there have oxalate crystals embedded in their brains!’
LOL
Amanda
That _is_ funny!
I admire your perseverance! Blogging (especially about nutrition) is definitely not for sensitive types like myself. LOL
Alexis
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HIlarious!!!!
Sabrina
Wow, your unprofessionalism, on top of everything else, just makes this whole thing more shocking. (and doesn’t earn you any more respect or credit in my opinion).
Sally
Did any of you critics READ this article?
“Green smoothies are all the rage these days with many people consuming them EVERY DAY or at least several times a week… Green smoothies are made by blending LARGE amounts of raw leafy green vegetables with fruit to soften and sweeten the taste. Typical vegetables included in green smoothies are kale, spinach, swiss chard, collard greens, celery, broccoli, and parsley.”
We are talking excessive amounts here! Drinking them everyday or several times a week! not once or twice a week! Large amounts? you don’t know what large is? we have all seen the you tubes on how to make green smoothies and I myself have been to a seminar where the presenter proudly displayed how no one could eat this huge salad bowl of greens that she stuffed into one green smoothie! for one person to consume daily! That is indeed a large amount!
What are people who don’t believe in butter doing on this blog? just lurking to promote your low fat agenda? Do you know anything about WAPF? What are you expecting to find on a chapter head’s blog? Come on people let’s have some common courtesy here!
Thanks Sarah, I have read bits and pieces about the problems with a high green smoothie diet before and I appreciate the reminder. (And I don’t need to have a big list of credentials behind my name to be literate and educated about REAL nutrition. We have enough people in this world with lists of credentials to lead us astray and cause many of the health problems our nation now faces!)
Beth
Sally– Amen Sister!!! Thanks for saying what we are all thinking! ;D
Elizabeth K
Bravo Sally, Bravo Sarah. The issue will green smoothies was something I experienced myself. The amount of greens, concentrated – especially that spinach – is a problem.
Growing up, my Italian grandmother would make spinach boiled and drained, then sauteed in butter and plenty of garlic. We loved it and wanted it every day, but I remember her telling us not to each spinach everyday, it wasn’t good to do that. That was 50 years ago.
Beth
Amen.
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Well said!
joe
I don’t know if that is entirely fair to say we should know what large is. Yes I know what HUGE is, but that is a different matter. I’m someone who is not a healthy eater, I don’t enjoy eating healthy. I don’t enjoy drinking green smoothies either. But I will, I can drink one down and be done with it as opposed to sitting over a salad or plate of fruits and veggies. I don’t want to over do it, but I can’t seem to find what a healthy amount is, I just see words like large and moderate. That tells me absolutely nothing. If I blend I leave of collards a day, is that too much? What about 2 or 3? I’m not saying this to be antagonistic, I’m really asking the question. I want to know what that middle ground is that lets me at least get some good nutrition without going too far the other direction. But all I can seem to find are negative instructions that use vague terms and amounts. Someone out there, please just tell us all what is a safe and healthy amount and frequency of veggies and fruits. As it stands, it seems I’m doomed whether I’m eating smoothies or macdonalds.
Angela
I’m sorry, but you are just a tad gullible/sensationalist about this new info. I am quite a nutrition buff myself, and being aware of how this stuff works, it isn’t that the greens (or other good stuff that has Oxalate in it) are the issue, so much as that they are getting into the wrong spot because of leaky gut syndrome. The Oxalate is usually just harmlessly metabolized by the gut flora, or passes out of the body in the stool. Look it up at http://www.lowoxatate.info.com In the same way we cause allergies to harmless good foods for ourselves. We need to fix the problem, not blame the good foods for our issues. Gluten makes the holes in the gut, and pasturized dairy is an issue, but other then preparing our grains, nuts and seeds traditionally, and using raw dairy so we can have the enzymes alive that help us digest it, we really should feel free to eat raw and healthy live food. This kind of propaganda is the same foolishness people wanted to say in the past about the horrors of nuts, avocados, eggs, butter. . .check your info, and when it goes against all common sense, don’t trust it.
Barb
To all the people wanting scientific “proof”, with nutrition you’ll find one doctor with a study stating one thing, and another doctor stating something diametrically opposed by another study. I use my gut to determine what’s right for me, and WAPF all the way. Thanks Sarah.
Charlene
Love this blogpost, Sarah – and the knee-jerk reactions! It’s hilarious. We are all so conditioned by the Food Pyramid and admonishment to eat 5 per day fruits/veggies that we never consider if this is how we evolved to eat. Fruits and veggies grow seasonally. Here in the northern Midwest, we have 4 months to eat fresh plant foods. The rest of the year, fruits and veggies are only available canned or fermented or transported from thousands of miles away during which time vitamins are tremendously degraded. All plant foods contain phytochemicals which protect them from herbivory, including oxalic acid, phytic acid, and goitrogens. And sadly, these compounds are toxic in high amounts. That’s reality. Deal with it.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Yes, I am rather amused at how emotionally attached people get to their health fads. That’s the American way .. if leafy greens in moderation are good for you, then let’s eat a barrel of them every single day blended up in a smoothie! Foolish line of thinking.
Amanda
If that is your line of reasoning, how do you explain people who heal themselves of cancer on the Gerson therapy? They drink enormous amounts of green juices and eat many whole foods. Doesn’t seem like a foolish line of thinking to me if it works!!
Justine Raphael
Gerson’s therapy was for people who HAVE CANCER. Not healthy people looking to be healthier. I am surprised no one has pointed this out, as several people have tried the same line of reasoning.
All “alkalising” does is break down elements in the body (that’s called “catabolic” for those of you looking for jargon), allowing them to be excreted. We call that detoxing, but the word is so over used that I am not sure we are all talking about the same thing. Every day each body clears wastes. That’s “detoxing” too, but doesn’t need green smoothies to work, it happens by itself.
In general, people who are sick (except cancer, I’ll get to that) need a building, “anabolic”, diet. One that heals. Like GAPS or a WAPF diet. Meat, broth, fats, cooked veg (much easier to assimilate) and so on, provide the raw materials to rebuild a weak body. Does breaking that sick body down further make any sense?
The only reason a catabolic approach can be used to treat cancer is because cancer is, by definition, out of control GROWTH. You have to break that down to cure cancer (there are other elements, such as the theory that cancer is fungal in origin, and those aspects may also respond to an alkaline diet). I still don’t see how a therapeutic diet specific to cancer is a good idea for healthy people (or people with different issues, other than cancers). That’s a bit like cutting off a body part prophylactically. Oh, wait. Some people do that (tonsils, adenoids, breasts). Forget it: we aren’t even thinking clearly, how can we intellectually decide that a fad should trump the Wisdom of the Grandmothers?
Teresa
If you are “amused” at the reactions of your article, than I am sorry to say you are less of a writer of improving people’s wellbeing than I orginally thought.
ruth
sarah you are exaggerating. most people blend a handful to two of spinach in their smoothies. if that. not even a serving!! definitely not enough to cause a problem. i have candida and my issues were only helped by adapting a plant based diet. which i’m sure is why a lot of people are responding with passion. because they have been helped not hurt as you suggest.
Jeff
You said the Magic words right there Charlene, “high amounts”. Thank You! Now I would tell you, that I would go to Vegas right now and bet my house you don’t have a clue what is HIGH AMOUNTS and what is not! Maybe three truckloads a week of greens is too much eh? LOL
IC
Eating seasonally is how my grandmother (and parents even) ate. Grains, root vegetables, sauerkraut, dried fruit and cheese was winter fare, fresh produce, milk and eggs was summer fare. Meats and broths were year round. I think this rotation of what was seasonally available is a part of traditional eating that can be overlooked.
Steve Gilbert via Facebook
Shameful sensationalism
Mickie
I’m petrified at doing for my body what is supposed to be good for it only to find out years later that I’ve totally messed myself (and my children ) up. Thank you for this article – I knew those quick fixes seemed too good to be true.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Stick to the wisdom of Traditional Cultures and what they ate and you will not be led astray by health fads such as green smoothie nonsense.
Angela
I understand your frustration as I felt the same way about whole grains. . .but don’t be too quick to jump to conclusions yet on this one, as I explained just now further down.
Tawanda
Sarah is so right about following the path of traditional diets, before I set out on that course, I was following the current thoughts on healthy diets which then led to health problems. But following traditional diets I was able to displace soda with Kombucha, and while never caring for vegetables growing up – I get excited about root veggies and leafy greens in butter, and I now if I have a craving, it’s for whole foods, which I don’t mind that kind of craving. So, now I listen and trust my body and so far, it’s been one satisfying journey.
DoulaSandra
First of all, I enjoy this blog very much and often refer others to it. However, I have to disagree with the dramatic nature of this one. As someone who makes green smoothies quite frequently, as well as juices vegetables, I must say the improvement in my health has been great (and no, I was not on a highly processed diet by any means prior to introducing them).
I am wondering why you fail to mention rotating the greens? I know that each leafy green contains it’s own particular type and cocktail of ingredients and that rotating which ones you use are important for keeping variety in the body and therefore minimizing the build up of oxalates. I certainly don’t agree that cooking greens in butter is a better alternative, though I don’t think you should totally eliminate that either. I think the idea should be to keep variety of foods and of cooking methods. i think there has been an over emphasis on certain greens (for some reason everyone juices kale), but we should instead emphasize using ALL kinds of greens and making sure that’s not our only source of vegetable intake. What about the chlorophyl from leafy greens? I have to agree with another comment that most Americans are lacking in the leafy greens category- greens of any kind!-and we should not be discouraging leafy green intake with dramatic blog posts, bust instead encouraging people to research and learn about their food and their bodies by being in their own kitchen and not rigidly following one specific type of diet or another.
Bailey Keenan via Facebook
Yeah, I agree with Elizabeth! People get very uncomfortable when someone questions their beliefs. It takes courage and honesty to do that. I can’t believe this topic could be so controversial. Again, I thought they were healthy, but the risks outlined in this post really make sense, and I appreciate the information!
Lynn
Oh for goodness sake so you suggest soaking things in butter instead.. butter which has been proven to cause severe issues.. and if not raw dairy butter the molecules are burst ( during pasteurisation at high heat) leaving them unable to pass through the teabag structure of the liver correctly. Even organic butter is pasteurised a very dangerous practice so unless the butter is raw and organic forget this advice!!!!! You would need to consume a large amount of green smoothies per day for it to be harmful as for the 1 in 5 people.. thats 20% of the population that have these issues. way more than this are affected by antibiotic, female growth hormone ridden dairy… before you suggest butter please re-think your advice. WAY more than 20% are allergic and have issues with dairy SIGH!!!
Sally
If you have read this blog for any length of time most of know she is referring to raw butter from pastured grass fed cows. we searched and found our source as everyone should…
Laura
Aren’t spinach and beet greens really the only “leafy greens” that are really high in oxalates? I thought kale was actually quite low.
Jamie
Great post, Sarah! Thank you for sharing this information. Who knew people would be so shocked or so defensive/arrogant/mean-spirited about their spinach? Popeye made it look so appealing…
I doubt your readers are the kind to be mislead by every new diet fad or controversial information, as your critics implied. (It was awfully condescending of them to do so.) Instead, it will hopefully spur some more research and healthy, yes healthy (not bitter, like leafy greens) discussion.
I am curious, though. What was the diet of that 2000 year old mummy like? Following that clue might give us a better idea of the true culprit for the high oxalate toxicity. I am not convinced that raw crucifers are wholly to blame, though I’m sure they could play a part. I guess I’m more of the moderation mindset, though I must admit, I tried and hated green smoothies. Scientific permission to eschew them is just a bonus. 😉
Michelle Minne Nigro via Facebook
Even more reason to skip green beverages:)
Heather Mango
In a recent article you mentioned that green smoothies should not be consumed by anyone who has a candia. I have always, even from child hood had dandaruff, I do not drink smoothies of any kind, but I do eat a lot of green veggies, mostly Baby spinanch in a salad. Could this cause oxalation, thereby make dandaruff worse?
Elizabeth Otte Stowers via Facebook
thehealthyhomeeconomist, I also want to add that you went out on a limb in writing this article. If you were trying to lead people astray (as a lot of people here are claiming), you would NOT have written this and gone against “The Sacred Cow of Green Smoothies.” Instead, you would not have polarized yourself and would have written to the masses who truly believe that green smoothies are the way to go. Thank you for taking risks and bringing up questions that the fad-diet gurus are not posing.
Max Power via Facebook
Sensationalist garbage…
Ashley Bechtold via Facebook
I think it is a little ridiculous to attack green smoothies of all things in this world that are absolutely and 100% terrible for your health. I’m not sold on this. A green smoothie is basically a salad condensed… So we should stop eating too many salads and greens and plants and opt for??? What? What is the better option here? Instead of a green smoothie people should eat bacon and eggs for breakfast? I agree with Elizabeth above to say they are devastating to your health is ridiculous. I’m suprised you posted such an article on your Blog…I might have to unlike your page too.
Prime
define ‘frequent’ and ‘large’. This is the issue, people are not scientifically equipped (usually by choice because not everyone likes science) to understand what she means by “large amount”. You would have to eat like a horse to get sick from veggies. If you can’t break down oxylates, there’s a genetic issue, an issue with YOUR free radical levels, or your not getting enough water. One of these drinks per day will NOT hurt anyone. There is NO evidence to her claim to “stop” drinking these. Now, should we all just eat veggies on a plate at every meal? yeah! It’s better to get them the right way.. but she’s freaking people out and now someone will take this to an extreme and not feed their kids spinach anymore! This article, the specific way it’s written is completely irresponsible and anyone with a background in science (I have a biochemistry degree) knows it! She just lost ALL credibility here and that’s a shame b/c I think she genuinely wants to transform health in this country. SHE IS NOT A NUTRITIONIST and should NOT write articles like this without an EDITOR who has an ACTUAL EDUCATION. Reading Dr. Price’s book and research doesn’t qualify her as an expert in anything other than his book. Done.
Lynn
BRAVO…
Beth
I would think the sharing of information that may help people avoid the agony of kidney stones and vulvodynia would elicit gratitude and appreciation.
Cheryl
Prime I wish I could shake your hand. We should do lunch sometime. I know this great smoothie place that have these butter, spinach, and kale……..
prime
Beth, she had the chance to share ACCURATE info for those poor people who do suffer from kidney stones but she totally failed.
@ Cheryl I e-shake your hand too, thank you! I just see so many poor people who this is not their area of expertise (b/c maybe they can’t stand science and love say, art, math etc) who will actually BELIEVE HER!! And they WON’T do their own research b/c they don’t LIKE doing research. That’s what experts are for. This is a controversy with the blogger world because in REAL LIFE it would be ILLEGAL to give advice like this without a certification. I get she isn’t claiming to be a nutritionist, but she is ACTING like one. I could have a blog about automobiles and tell everyone to put grape juice in their engine, sure! But that would make me a fraud and an idiot acting like I’m an expert in an area where I’m clearly NOT. This got thrown on my FB feed and scared a few of my friends which is why I’ve chimed in so much. I wish we could have that butter, kale, spinach, broccoli smoothie! -with a side of grape juice LOL
prime
Thanks Cheryl!
Elizabeth Otte Stowers via Facebook
thehealthyhomeeconomist, you are very brave to do a post like this. There is a green smoothie revolution happening and a lot of people very strongly believe in the health benefits of raw veggies (mixed with some raw fruits). We were drinking green smoothies for awhile. I got onto someone’s e-mail list who is highly prolific in the green smoothie niche. I suspect she’s the one who took them mainstream. Anyhow, we put spinach, kale and chard in ours. Sometimes lettuce or raw broccoli.
It didn’t really do that much for us (and our overall diet was about 90% healthy, organic with healthy fats, grains, etc). My kids didn’t really like the taste and the smoothies seemed to make them hyper. We stopped and we only have fruit-based smoothies (occasionally, not on a regular basis).
One of the main reasons we stopped was because years ago (long before green smoothies became popular), I read about oxalates (and the health risks of eating too much of them) in some raw greens from Donna Gates (The Body Ecology author) and Dr Mercola. They both wrote that foods like spinach, kale and chard needed to be steamed before eating to help remove some of the oxalates.
I have fibromyalgia and I’m interested in checking out the idea of oxalate crsytals. Thank you so much for your article!
David
While I appreciate this article explaining the pitfalls of yet another fad in the “Get Healthy Quick” community, instead of presenting just the “scary” bits of information to increase website hits and create a buzz, which seems to be the standard journalistic tendency, it would have been nice to read a complete article that would offer solutions or guild lines to include juicing into a healthy life style. My wife and I have recently started a juicing regiment and my main concern has been at what proportions and intervals to consume the fruits and vegetables. I’ve been trying to get more information on what a juiced ounce of any particular item has, what it should be combined with, and what will happen if I consume too much. What I’ve found so far is just like your article, enough information to expose my ignorance, but nothing to help me. A list of recommended reading or websites would have been nice.
Now that you’ve scared everyone, let’s see an intelligent follow up.
Shirley Collenette via Facebook
Does wheat grass have oxalates? We juice every morning, but we use cucumber, apple, carrot, ginger, orange and beet. Hope that is ok, because it sure is good, and my kids love it!
Pat Smith
Glad I read this. I actually have a green smoothie recipe on my site, that I have made a few times. It is good and has its health benefits, but probably shouldn’t be consumed on a daily basis. I have found that when I tried to replace a meal or two with it, my energy drops(obviously not enough calories) and then nausea hits. Once I eat a regular meal I am ok within an hour or two, but its definitely not a fun experience. If I do have a green shake now, I will have it with my meal, instead of in place of. Eating greens in their raw natural state wouldn’t normally be bad for us, but I think having a green smoothie on a daily basis is giving us concentrated doses of everything that’s in them, good and bad. If you were out scavenging for spinach leaves in the wild, you probably wouldn’t be eating that much of it, especially not every day.
Beth
For your recipe, how about replacing the high oxalate or goitrogenic veggies with ones that aren’t, like avocado, lettuce, carrot, zucchini, celery and cucumber? As for the energy drop, I would guess consuming protein and fat would help since they provide sustained energy. Add pasture-raised egg yolk, coconut oil, and shredded coconut, for example. Might be worth experimenting and see how you feel.
Pat Smith
Great idea Beth! Next time I think I will. Although I have been a little hesitant to try coconut oil, I cook with it daily and use in my deodorant and sunblock, but wouldn’t putting in it the shake thicken it pretty drastically, especially if it’s cold? Is it not very noticeable or does it make it tougher to drink?
Beth
I take that back about oxalates in carrots and celery. Apparently they are high. Here’s a chart, click on veggies:
http://www.lowoxalate.info/recipes.html
Yogurt or kefir, preferably homemade, but full fat in any case, would be another option for adding fat and protein. I make kefir smoothies a lot and add coconut oil and shredded coconut. The oil can sometimes end up in tiny balls if I add something cold, like frozen blueberries, but I don’t mind it at all. It and the shredded coconut add texture, and it helps you to remember to “chew” the smoothie anyway, which is a good practice since it mixes with saliva, initiating the digestive process (don’t gulp down).
Barb
Thank you so much for posting this. The trend never made any sense to me, but people would actually get angry with me if I said I didn’t buy into the seat on the band wagon. To me, traditional is key. Eat like your grandparents did, and their grandparents before them–real, whole food and traditional fat.
Karen Joy
I, sadly, just un-liked your page on FB. The odd thing is: I don’t even drink green smoothies — no matter how one makes it, they’re too high in sugar/carbs for me, even natural fruit sugars. But, it does truly bother me how you, Sarah, make sweeping generalizations about the health of others, like this: “Given that the majority of people today suffer from gut imbalance/fungal issues caused by antibiotic and prescription drug use along with consumption of processed foods, a high oxalate diet which includes green smoothies is an unwise practice for virtually everyone.” Only 20% of the population is susceptible to oxalate troubles (which you do mention), and one’s own liver produces oxalates! I remain unconvinced that avoiding all foods with oxalates causes more good than harm; so many amazingly healthy foods contain oxalates. A better route is to digestive and overall health is to eat organically-produced, fresh, unprocessed, whole foods. Consuming oxalates is not going to increase the body’s Candida production; your logic on this issue does not follow. Consuming sugars (and even starches) and no probiotics/fermented foods will produce Candida. Recommending a diet low in sugar and high in fermented foods (which you do) is helpful to the general health of all. Stating flat-out that green smoothies (when in fact, as others have mentioned, kale is low in oxalates; only spinach is high) are “unwise” for “virtually everyone” is irresponsible and alarmist. It’s your alarmism that deeply disturbs me, which is why I will no longer read you; I’ll stick to wise sources of information that don’t try to garner more readers by scaring them.
Kiki
Read the article more carefully, she is not advocating eliminating these foods from your diet, just not eating it in huge quantities as are generally present in the green smoothies that you find at the health food store and/ or juice bars. She is talking about the daily drinking of these smoothies. I actually know people who are on a green juice diet exclusively for weeks and weeks at a time. This article is meant for those people.
Didida
^^^ exactly
Amanda
Very well said Karen.
Kelly
Thanks Karen for the laugh. Your post is so full of errors and just well, a perfect example of googlechondria where one believes what one reads because some ‘guru’ said it was true.
Newsflash: Candida is a normal inhabitant of the intestinal tract. It only becomes invasive if one severely restricts carbs. Why? Because you’ve starved it of the food it craves, so it goes elsewhere looking for it.
And that’s just one of many errors in your post…
Lisa Pittman Bowman via Facebook
My family does have an oxalate issue! Plus I’m on a forum where lots of us suffer from it. Kidney stones are very painful. Many kids with autism also suffer from oxalate and it can be devastating to your health. I think the author was explaining how one person’s food is another person’s poison. I don’t understand why people are taking such offense to this information. I can consume dairy just fine and am not offended by articles explaining how people are intolerant from it.
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Amen!
Bailey Keenan via Facebook
Sarah, what about juicing? Same health risks from that? Thanks!
Beth
Wow, Sarah, I was reading the source article for your post on the Weston Price website just last night. So many times we are on the same wavelength.
I was reading up on oxalates after remembering that spinach was extremely high in them and after suffering headaches two nights in a row after eating steamed spinach now abundant at the farmers’ markets. I was interested to learn the other high oxalate foods cited in the article:
Soy (the highest)
Spinach (second highest)
Black pepper
Chocolate
Instant coffee
Leeks
Lemon peel
Lime peel
Okra
Parsley
Peanut butter
Peanuts
Pecans
Pokeweed
Rhubarb
Sweet potatoes
Swiss chard
Tea
Tofu
Wheat germ
It was fascinating to learn about how it relates to fibromyalgia, autism, and vulvodynia, and how using calcium citrate can mitigate the effects when consuming any of these foods. So, last night I took 2 calcium citrate pills after finishing off that last of our spinach and no headache. Interesting, eh?
I agree that the green smoothies are not as prudent as people might hope, especially when you also factor in the goitrogenic, thyroid-disrupting effects of some of the foods people use.
I also thought it was interesting that spinach and soy are on the no-no list on Dr Louisa Williams’ detox protocol (www.radicalmedicine.com).
almira
Great list thanks! So I’m assuming these foods should just be cooked with butter not excluded from the diet entirely right?
Lauren
This title is just….ridiculous. Over the top, much? Green smoothies, I’ll say, have CHANGED my life. Especially considering I was quite addicted to sodas. Leafy greens with butter is better for me? How in the world? Of course I know one size doesn’t fit all but encouraging people to STOP drinking something that many of us have several benefits from is just crazy to me.
Dan
Here’s an interesting discussion where Chris Masterjohn talks about how consuming excess goitrogenic foods like cruciferous vegetables can lead to iodine deficiency and decreased thyroid function: http://chriskresser.com/chris-masterjohn-on-cholesterol-and-heart-disease-part-3
Mary
Hi Sarah –
Just wanted to say that I love your curly hair and your casual yet classy wardrobe. Oh, and I love your blog, too.
Blessings,
Mary
Kiki
Agreed:)
Bailey Keenan via Facebook
I drink them, but not every day. I’ve switched from spinach and kale which suppress thyroid function to spring mix. I don’t see it as any different than having a salad, although I do remember reading in Jethro Kloss’ book “Back to Eden,” that you shouldn’t eat fruits and veggies at the same time. Yes, actually grass-fed butter is VERY good for you, and may help you LOSE weight because of all the CLA it contains. Thanks for this post, this was interesting and helpful to me.
Beth
My parents are “vegans” and they drink those green smoothies every morning…at first it was beneficial to get off of the overly processed foods…but after a couple of years they have started having health problems..my Mom is having thyroid problems…but it just seems to make them do the vegan thing more. Of course, every time they come to my house…I always have lots of good meats and good fats for them to eat…my Dad especially wolfs it down( he cannot resist!!)….they are starving themselves and they will not listen to anything about this. They have been given by their “doctor” the “China Study” and think that all things animal is terrible! I back you 100%…and I happen to like your hair and wardrobe too!
hang in there and keep the good and informative blogs coming!!!! Love ya lots!!!
Jen
Print some of the articles from Denise Minger’s blog, that completely invalidate The China Study, for them to read.
Beth
Thanks Jen,
I will check that out…
Linda
I so agree Beth!
Beth
Hi Linda…and Jen…and whoever else loves Sarah and all the work she has done to help us stay informed. If people don’t like what she says…..THEY SHOULD NOT READ HER BLOG!!! I ,for one, trust what she says because I agree with her sources and she does soooo much of the leg work for us Moms and Women (& men too) who don’t have the time to do it for ourselves!!! I mean …just look at her…..she’s in great shape…great hair and I have found her information to be very credible. People have just gone crazy over this their stupid green smoothies …..sooooo go a your green smoothies and leave us alone…..when you need help with your health problems that flare up as a result….Sarah is, I am certain, quite gracious enough to help you with the right information to get you healthy again…..Keep up the great work Sarah!!! We love you!!!!
April
“If you enjoy green leafy vegetables, enjoy them only on occasion in a salad or even better, cook them thoroughly in lots of butter…”
REALLY!?!?! wow…because cooking a perfectly nutritious vegetable in a ton of butter is healthy…
Jen
Grass-fed butter is an extremely nutrient dense food. Eating fats, REAL fats like butter, lard, tallow, olive oil, and coconut oil does NOT make you fat. Seriously, when are people going to get with the times, and let the fat fear mongering go?
sabrina
Eating all the “good fats” won’t make you fat or unhealthy you say? Please provide your source for this. I don’t disagree that a small amount of good fats is benefitial to our health, but not large or unlimited quantities…
Jen
I never said “large or unlimited quantities” of saturated fat wouldn’t make you fat. That’s just common sense. I was referring to the fear of eating saturated fats in general. They are REAL food, and every cell membrane in our body is comprised of saturated fat, among other things. We need saturated fat in our diets. What we don’t need is highly processed (heat and chemical treated), genetically modified, rancid vegetable oils, which is what the mainstream considers healthy. Now those will do major damage to your body and your heart. By the way, saturated fat is NOT bad for your heart either.
If you’re interested in why saturated fat will not make you fat, then research it. The information is out there. This is not a professional debate, it is a blog comment, and I don’t have time to go look up all the research I’ve done.
Jen
I apologize if the last sentence of my reply seems rude. I didn’t mean it that way. I have a husband, a 4 year old, and 18 month old, and it’s dinner time. I just really don’t have time to look it up now.
Elizabeth Pelegrin-New via Facebook
Jennifer Brooks hit the nail on the head!!
I’m sorry, but I may unlike this page if this is the kind of articles you post, and I’m not trying to be a jerk but this is the kind of thing that makes me angry… People taking this as gospel need to do a bit more research instead of just believing everything on a particular blog… I mean, going so far as to say that green smoothies are DEVASTATING TO YOUR HEALTH?!?! Give me a BREAK!!!! This is the most ridiculous phrase I’ve heard… out of ALL the things to watch out for in the fitness/health industry, green smoothies is what you pick?!?
Grace
One of the biggest risk factors for getting fibromygalia is having your gallbladder removed. And one of the biggest factors in having gallbladder inflammation and gallstones is celiac disease and/or gluten intolerance.
I don’t know how oxalates play into this, for me. I do have stones (gallstones and likely kidney stones too) myself (working on dissolving them), and don’t drink green smoothies. I do have spinach about every other day. But some stones start out as parasites. Heavy metals are one cause of your body not getting rid of parasites on its own.
Supplements that can help dissolve both kidney stones and gallstones: chanca piedra and hydrangea. A person probably need to take these with high potency digestive enzymes and probiotics.
Beth
I’ve also heard that nettles, marshmallow root and joe pye weed are good for removing kidney stones.
Bile salts are needed if someone has had their gallbladder removed.
Beth
I am one of those people that didn’t know better when the doctor said I had to have my gallbladder removed. This feels like a bomb just dropped on my head when you said that now I have to worry about fibromyalgia!!! There really is very little information out there for people who’ve lost their gallbladders (and yes… 13 years after I found out I have a gluten intolerance!). Beth, I’ve tried Bile salts but didn’t feel any differently… not sure if they are necessary or not as the body still produces bile and I read that if you stick to a regular eating schedule, your body actually can send bile during those times anyways.
Jenny
This is so confusing! I have been on a REAL food diet for 2 years now….most of the time on full GAPS. I just recently began adding a quart of green smoothies to my day and feel incredible. My digestion is so much better than when I eat traditional cooked foods. It’s frustrating because I’ve been so diligent in eating the WAPF way but am finding more relief in my health issues by adding a large green smoothie every day. Your comment about “green smoothies can be deceiving at first as a person will probably initially feel great after adopting this habit particularly if he or she is coming off a highly processed, nutrient poor diet.” I haven’t had processed food in over 2 years so this doesn’t apply to me. How can I feel so much improvement if it’s bad for me?
Beth
Jenny, you could still have the fresh juices and smoothies using vegetables, but just replace the high oxalate, goitrogenic greens with veggies such as carrot, zucchini, lettuce, celery, cucumber.
Beth
I take that back about oxalates in carrots and celery. Apparently they are high. Here’s a chart, click on veggies:
http://www.lowoxalate.info/recipes.html
Kelly
Carrots are medium, and even almost low if cooked awhile, while yes, celery is very high.
Jeff
absolute Hogwash right here! And look at all the Frightened people here now! You should be ashamed of yourself! Drinking lots of water completely eliminates any chance of having any stones, where did you get your Degree? Maybe should Warn people to stay away from that school.
Victoria
Same as I thought…and found that she has NO degree in nutrition! PLEASE………..
Prime
agreed! She’s NOT A SCIENTIST, not educated in nutrition.. she’s at best inspired and ignorant. She read Dr. Price’s book yay. have HIM write these articles or at least get and editor! fail.
Helen T
THANK G-D she’s not a scientist! Fukushima, anyone?
Sue B
Not true. i have drunk no less than 1 gallon of fresh/purified water per day for over 35 years (since I learned about fluoride) and I have stones everywhere, in every joint and in kidneys.
Amy Rose Carrillo via Facebook
??
Sabrina Ball via Facebook
@ Rebekkah Smith – butter makes my muffin taste better too, does that mean it’s healthier now?? the hating I’m seeing here is on leafy greens, which is what I think has most people bewildered….
elizabeth
It’s amazing how we as human beings can zero in on one particular item in an article and
leave out the rest. I quote from Sarah’s article “Frequent consumption of large quantities
of raw, leafy vegetables….” Note “frequent” and “large”. Please, people, she didn’t say “never” eat green veggies. Eat them in moderation. Don’t miss Sarah’s point.
Prime
define ‘frequent’ and ‘large’. This is the issue, people are not scientifically equipped (usually by choice because not everyone likes science) to understand what she means by “large amount”. You would have to eat like a horse to get sick from veggies. If you can’t break down oxylates, there’s a genetic issue, an issue with YOUR free radical levels, or your not getting enough water. One of these drinks per day will NOT hurt anyone. There is NO evidence to her claim to “stop” drinking these. Now, should we all just eat veggies on a plate at every meal? yeah! It’s better to get them the right way.. but she’s freaking people out and now someone will take this to an extreme and not feed their kids spinach anymore! This article, the specific way it’s written is completely irresponsible and anyone with a background in science (I have a biochemistry degree) knows it! She just lost ALL credibility here and that’s a shame b/c I think she genuinely wants to transform health in this country. SHE IS NOT A NUTRITIONIST and should NOT write articles like this without an EDITOR who has an ACTUAL EDUCATION. Reading Dr. Price’s book and research doesn’t qualify her as an expert in anything other than his book. Done.
Watchmom3
Are you out of your mind? This is not Nazi Germany. Sarah can say anthing she wants to say on HER BLOG. Don’t agree? FINE. Don’t like it? FINE? But, you do not have the right to say to a free American citizen, “You should not write articles!” WHAT!? You must work for Monsanto who absolutely wants to STOP the dialogue! I think you may see the day that you are very sorry that you insisted that anyone who doesn’t agree with you should be censored. THAT IS ILLOGICAL AND IRRESPONSIBLE. Falls right in with the thought police… THINK!
sabrina
I think Prime is just making an statement based on her education in this subject, which makes her qualified to do so – Sarah has in the title of her FB post “to opt out” from green smoothies and if I didn’t already know so much about this subject as well and read this article I would take it as I should stop eating and feeding my children green vegatables. Honestly, I thought this article was a joke at first, and then when I realized it wasn’t, thought maybe it was actually written by a Monstanto employee…
Jana
Couldn’t agree more, Watchmom3….this is NOT a fascist or communist country, though many of these raving lunatic commenters sound like they think this is the kind of country we live in. As though big brother could shut down or disallow any media that goes against allowable types of thinking. What really blows my mind though, is the fact that these people are reading this blog. If they aren’t following WAPF principles, why on earth would they be reading a blog like this? Personally, I think it’s just to cause trouble.
prime
Watchmom3, I actually DO have the right to tell an american citizen anything I want b/c to your point, I have free speach
I can’t STAND Monsanto by the way and am on a mission to make all food labels state if they are GMO. My point is that if we TRULY and I mean, TRULY want HEALTH in this country, we HAVE to be responsible and THOROUGH. what GOOD does it do to share ‘health’ information that is NOT ACCURATE? Please tell me that. She, at this point, is no better than the FDA or Monsanto. So, sure she can write all she wants, but she has to understand that though people like me will NEVER subscribe (this nonsense got placed on my FB feed and SCARED people, MY friends who I’m protective over), there will be people MORE INTELLIGENT, and MORE EDUCATED than her. If she or her audience can’t take the heat, then I suggest you toughen up. She is NOT a health expert nor should she act like one. Had she said, ‘this is my opinion and has no research to back this up, nor do I really know any of the science behind this and I’m guessing at half of the information in the following blog so take it with a grain of salt”, then the people on here calling her BS wouldn’t be so fired up. Her poor followers will actually TAKE this advice and make themselves and their families SICK. I think she could have gone about this in a better, more accurate was and kept credibility.
-And you’re right, we SHOULD be able to write what we want. But I will tell you, if I ever start a blog about Auditing or Finance a pretend I know what I’m talking about, y’all are screwed! haha!! -I have the right to do it…but that would make me a FRAUD.
prime
*speech
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Anyone who wants to learn about exact amounts is free to do more research. If only those with formal degrees in nutrition are allowed to discuss nutrition it would be virtually ensuring that the industry-sponsored ridiculousness continues. I do not agree with every assertion that Sarah makes, but attacking her First Amendment right to make assertions on a blog she owns is kind of silly.
I am unaware of any instance in which Sarah has claimed to be a degreed nutritionist, so I am confused by all of the “Sarah is not a nutritionist” comments.
Hannah
Excellent response, Nicole.
Helen T
You said it best, Nicole: always the voice of reason!
Chaser
Phew. So glad that people like you are scattered around this earth.
I was getting frustrated reading the comments. . . and then yours showed up.
Nice, Nicole.
Victoria
“With all the knowledge I’ve accumulated regarding children’s health and wellness, I’ve become known locally as a kind of “Wellness Maven”. This was right up my alley, having come from a medical family where both my Father and brother are MDs. Through this blog, I am taking my lay role as health maven international!”
These are the Health Economist’s credentials…far from professional to be writing an article that involves being a nutritionist expert!
Nakeisha Sharee James via Facebook
LOL!!
Prime
I have a degree in biochemistry and you should remove this blog entirely. It’s completely inaccurate and you are scaring people with total misinformation! You don’t state how much is “a lot” of veggies per day, you fail to mention our livers produce most of the Oxalate in our bodies anyways, you fail to mention that it’s actually CALCIUM OXALATE that causes kidney stones (not Oxalate alone) and there are 4 different types of kidney stones and calcium Oxalate is one. You would have been MUCH better off attacking SOY for the much higher concentrations of Oxalate and sharing how soy is everywhere in just about everything.
This is rediculous, inaccurate and you are not contributing to health in this specific article.
You ARE spot on about fats and real
Butter. Ill give you that.
Nancy
Wow, this really struck a cord with a lot of people. I can understand everything in moderation and I am curious to learn more about this information. I can also understand Sarah’s point in regards to butter. We have lost the art of food preparation, good quality, grass fed butter is hard to come by, yet retains it nutrients. I am learning now, that my parents were amazing in caring for our health. They limited sugar, if we had fruit it was always with a protein and my favorite ‘food’ growing up was cooked spinach and liver. Raw veggies are ok to consumer in moderation, their cellular structure is hard for our body to break down, thus the reason for cooking them lightly….if they are cooked at a high heat for long periods, then yes they will loose a lot of their nutrient value…Sarah, in regards to green ‘powders’ you are correct, a lot of them there is no information on how it is processed or where it comes from, that is why its important to do our own investigation and only buy from companies that you know where and how their products are being processed. I have been taking a green barley powder for 7yrs and is has done wonders for me. I know where its grown (Organically so), I know how they process it (cold processed to retain nutrients and cut at the point that young barley grass HAS the most nutrients) it was created with the partnership of Dr Hagiwara, MD who spent his life researching Green Barley.
Sara Schrock Dorton via Facebook
“cook thoroughly in lots of butter” What? lol!
Tracey Stirling
I started GAPS awhile back and about 2 weeks into it I developed what I thought was a UTI but after trying all the typical home remedies with no success I began researching high oxalate diets. One of the things suggested on GAPS is juicing every morning. At first I felt great when I juiced but then after the pain started and I began to research oxalates I decided to stop juicing as that was the only new thing I had added in my diet. Everything else on GAPS I had already been comsuming for sometime. The symptoms definitely lessened after stopping juicing but it has taken me months to literally get them to disspaear. I love what the GAPS diet has done for me but I am very careful now not to include high oxalate foods if I juice.
Kristin Sanders via Facebook
I think if you aren’t drinking these smoothies in large amounts and rotate the types of greens then you should be fine. Like others said, listen to your body. And raw butter on the veggies sounds delicious and healthy. Why all the butter hate?
Laura Cortes via Facebook
Thanks for sharing learned somthing new..
Steven
I’m also skeptical of the author’s dismissal of alkalization. My father had severe heart issues and was on his death bed many years ago. He began to take “Natural Calm” a powered Magnesium supplement and juicing once every other day. His heart problems immediately decreased significantly. Whenever he starts to have issues, he begins to alkalize.
For the record, i’m not a vegan…I do best with moderate eggs and meat in addition to plenty of fresh veggies!
Donna Marie
Never in soups?? I make soups for my family all of the time with rich bone broths and lots of veggies of all kinds including dark leafy greens…this is wrong?? I am so confused.
Nicole Rice
she’s not talking about veggies in general. Sarah is specifically referring to situations like cooking up a big pot of spinach. Toss the water after cooking it- then add butter to increase the nutrients.
SR
Hi Sarah,
I have a problem finding a holistic doctor that follows the WAPF phylosophy. The few doctors I’ve seen over the last years just laugh it off. Any hints as to how to find one?
Thanks!
Suzanne
Me, too. Mine told me to stop eating all carbs and dairy products. How Adkin’s can you get? I don’t think so, thanks anyway. I’m a WAPF girl.
L
Great post! Look at Julia Child’s recipe for Spinach in Mastering the Art of French Cooking (or any older cook book)- she has you boil the spinach first, drain it, then cook it for a long time in a ton of butter- delicious! Or recipes for collard greens- cooked forever in a lot of fat. This is how people traditionally ate greens- maybe there was a reason for doing it this way.
Molly
I take the Body Ecology fermented greens drink. Does fermenting solve this problem? I trust Donna Gates to know what’s healthy. She isn’t a big fan of juicing in general.
Carrie
Don’t probiotics and/or fermented foods neutralize oxalates?
Kyla
That’s basically what I just read here in this article. It says that most people who have issues with oxalates experience leaky gut or gut inflammation. Magnesium binds to our oxalates and helps expel them. So, soaking our nuts and seeds are a good idea to break down the phytic acid that blocks our mineral absorption.
http://www.lowoxalate.info/
Steven
Green smoothies don’t make me feel better, but fresh juicing does. How come I always feel better after juicing or having a big leafy green salad, sometimes with eggs or meat?
I juice about 3-4 times a week and have for many years. I don’t look my age at all. I think perhaps the author is throwing some of the baby out with the bathwater here by suggeting all juicing is just as bad as green smoothie concoctions.
Andrea Baeza via Facebook
^ foods high in oxalate
Marina Hoffstrom via Facebook
There’s a bacteria called Oxalobacter formigenes. They live in the gut and eat oxalate. Antibiotics and other drugs kill Oxalobacter formigenes and doctors don’t know how to get more of them … but other probiotics may help.
My first reaction to this article was “fear mongering”! Please, do not tell people what to eat and scare them off healthy stuff when you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about! Totally dislike!
You have many good articles and arguments, but this one diminishes your credibility a lot …
Andrea Baeza via Facebook
Fruits
blackberries, blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, currants, kiwifruit, concord (purple) grapes, figs, tangerines, and plums
Vegetables (see Table 1 for additional information)
spinach, Swiss chard, beet greens, collards, okra, parsley, leeks and quinoa are among the most oxalate-dense vegetables
celery, green beans, rutabagas, and summer squash would be considered moderately dense in oxalates
Nuts and seeds
almonds, cashews, and peanuts
Legumes
soybeans, tofu and other soy products
Grains
wheat bran, wheat germ, quinoa (a vegetable often used like a grain)
Other
cocoa, chocolate, and black tea
Deanna
So which leafy greens should I be concerned about? Spinach, kale, chard and what else?
Mary
Boy girlfriend, you really know how to shake up the world!!! LOL
Mary
opps, this was meant for Sarah – not you Deanna!!!
Sharing the Science of Natural Health via Facebook
The body is designed to maintain a very narrow pH range in the blood, and will distribute acidic or alkaline products wherever it needs to in order to maintain that blood pH. I personally believe that this is a case of everything in moderation. If someone is already eating an alkalinizing diet, then these large smoothies daily could be overkill. But I believe that for the majority of Americans who line up for a veggie drink *maybe* once a day and eat a SAD 80% of the time, they are helpful. Moderation. Balance.
Jennifer Berry via Facebook
Here is what Victoria Boutenko says in her book, Green Smoothie Revolution, in answer to the question “should I avoid eating spinach because it has oxalic acid?”: “The oxalic acid in food is considered harmful because it can combine with calcium and may leach the body of this important mineral. For some reason, everyone knows about the oxalic acid in spinach, but they are not aware of the oxalic acid content in many other commonly eaten foods such as grains, beans, and especially coffee and tea. While spinach is loaded with calcium, which minimizes the loss of this mineral from your body, coffee has none. I would be more concerned about the oxalic acid content in coffee and other products than in spinach. At the same time, even thought the oxalic acid content in spinach is minute, if you do not rotate your greens and use only spinach for many weeks, you may accumulate oxalic acid and experience symptoms of poisoning. Remember, rotate your greens!” Hope that helps someone!
Bethany
Would dandelion root and milk thistle be a problem? I take these as supplements for liver support right now.
Steven
I eat and juice dandelion greens when I want to beat back fungal issues. Same with wheatgrass. Both are amazing super foods from my personal experiences anyway..
Kyla
Hi Sarah, I have to admit that I was pretty puzzled by your post. I love your blog and have followed it for quite awhile now. So, I did some reading this morning and was really surprised to find that most of the foods which contain high levels of oxalate are foods that many weston a pricers would advocate people to eat. However, in this article, I noticed that most of the people who have problems with their oxalate levels are also people whose health issues are rooted in a “leaky gut”. They also have a large amount of gut inflammation and not enough good intestinal flora which usually take care of our oxalates levels in our bodies. So, this has just encouraged me to keep drinking my water kefir, dairy kefir, yogurt, and buttermilk! Yay for fermented foods and they’re fabulous ability to keep our bodies balanced and healthy!
http://www.lowoxalate.info/
Amanda Colo via Facebook
here is another article I found on the subject. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48
thehealthyhomeeconomist via Facebook
@Rhonda Oxalates are reduced by cooking .. I’ve done more research on the subject since that earlier article from a couple years ago and have realized that oxalates are not reduced by a light steaming as much as thought. BUT, if you consume them in moderation you are fine of course!
thehealthyhomeeconomist via Facebook
@Rhonda Oxalates are reduced by cooking .. I’ve done more research on the subject since that earlier article from a couple years ago and have realized that oxalates are not reduced by a light steaming as much as thought. BUT, if you consume them in moderation you are fine of course!
McKenna Gordon
It surprises me that someone who supports a whole-foods diet doesn’t understand “WHOLE” foods and the fact that when nature grows a WHOLE edible plant, it provides a WHOLE solution, just like how an apple that contains a lot of fructose also contains a lot of fiber and other nutrients that slow down the uptake of that sugar so that the effect on blood sugar when you eat a WHOLE apple is very minimal. It’s like a little miracle food. Leafy greens are no different.
It’s really interesting to me that you choose to make leafy greens the villain instead of going after soda, sugar and salt, which are the BIGGEST oxalate culprits, which DO cause kidney stones, because they aren’t naturally accompanied by oxalate-negators. Calcium is so plentiful and highly absorbable in raw greens, and calcium binds to excess oxalates to render them harmless and easily removed by the body. Green foods are vital and should be eaten daily. AND there is even some evidence that says blending oxalate-rich foods by breaking open the cell wall (thus making all the nutrients more bioavailable) actually neutralizes oxalates.
Cooking spinach will increase the effects of oxalates in our bodies. It doesn’t mean you should never cook your spinach, oxalates are fine in moderation…
Have you ever personally experienced someone to have “oxalate shards in their heart” and it was proven to be caused by leafy greens? I’ve never heard of too many vegetables causing health problems, as long as their diet is balanced. And the people who are eating “too many” vegetables? Where are they? I can’t find them anywhere!
Too many greens is NOT our problem, people. Our problem is that people aren’t getting ENOUGH veggies… so one green smoothie a day allows us to get an extra 3-5 servings of veggies, which for most people will be all or 90% of the veggies they eat, sadly.
I would love to see some scientific evidence, if you have some. Because I have searched and have yet to find any regarding oxalates specifically from spinach. Yes, they contain oxalates, but also oxalate-negators.
Prime
AMEN!!! I’m SO tired of people NOT contributing proper info about nutrition in the country. SHE is now part of the problem.
Tina
I am confused.. I have read on numerous nutrition websites about the benefits of eating leafy greens on a daily basis. I practically have a large mixed salad everyday (with nuts, cheese, olives, beans, sprouts, chicken thrown in) either for my lunch or in addition to my dinner. I am rarely, if ever, sick, look young for my age and my skin looks and feels great. I also eat lots of cooked veggies with dinner and in the morning I have a powdered green shake with my oatmeal (not to be confused with a raw green smoothie). Should I be eliminating my daily big salads or reducing them in case they are causing more harm then good and have more “cooked” veggies?? I have never heard the advice of eating less leafy green salads…
Rebekkah Smith via Facebook
A lot of people commenting need to learn a little bit about veggies and fats! We have some fat-ophobics on here, which is surprising. Fats are good for you, and they make your veggies healthier! There’s a reason why veggies taste way better in butter…
Susan Olvera via Facebook
I think everything in moderation is important. However, if I skip on greens I’m a pretty cranky person. I don’t consume tremendous amounts, but I would say we through about 4-6 heads of kale a week, between my husband and myself. I would take more issue with the overuse of sweet fruits in those smoothies as it can feed candida.
Amanda
A friend just pointed me to this article: http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green-smoothies/oxalates-spinach-oxalic-acid-health-concern/ It is put out by a smoothie blog, so it make sense they are pro-green smoothies. I just wish that health experts could agree on something. I do appreciate you weighing in on tough health topics though! In the end I the best any lay person can do is read as much as possible and figure out what works for our own bodies. Which after reading Real Food Blogs for 2 years now, I am still at a loss.
Anna
For claiming somewhere in that or another oxalic acid/oxalate post that her article is “well researched”, I beg to differ…even if it was there is _no_ proof and _no_ footnotes behind what she says.
Ozlem Yurttas via Facebook
so interesting. we always heard good things about green smoothies…
Sandra
Here is a good link regarding oxalates. Like anything else, it comes down to bio-individuality.
Use common sense people.
http://www.uwhealth.org/urology/oxalate/11252
Shelley
I have to disagree…I JUST passed a 5mil kidney stone this month….I have never had one in my life….in the past 6 months I have started drinking a green smoothie for breakfast…..when I brought the stone to my Urologist I questioned her about my oxalate stone and how it related to the green smoothies…should I continue drinking them etc. The answer she gave was this: You would have to eat many POUNDS of spinach, kale etc each day to have a stone form. She told me that people that drink soda, especially “brown colored” soda are at a much HIGHER risk of forming oxalate stones than green smoothie drinkers. Her advice: Drink green smoothies! DO NOT DRINK ANY SODA!
Cheryl
Totally agreed! Thank you..
Kiki
It seems to me that if you’ve never had stones before but developed them AFTER starting a regimen of daily leafy green smoothies that the proof is in the pudding. I know no one wants to admit this, but Doctors are not always right…in fact, they are frequently DEAD WRONG, especially when it comes to knowledge about nutrition. Think about how often and how drastically the recommendations for food consumption have changed over the years. I have stopped listening to Doctors and have started doing research. The Weston Price Foundation, while not perfect, is a good start. AND their recommendations are based on anecdotal evidence combined with many, many years of research.
Aimee Ridgway
here here! If the two leading cause of deaths are heart disease and cancer – Doctors are The Third Leading Cause of Deaths.
Watchmom3
Shelley, a doctor told my Dad that taking radiation was a good idea to stop his cancer. He died at 58 from prostate ca met to the bone. We now know that radiation can spread cancers and that it eats away at the bones and other tissue, which I saw with my own eyes. Not all doctors know everything. Wish I had my Dad back and hadn’t believed a doctor.
Marise Rowell
I wonder what you would say to The Gerson Therapy method with over 75 years of successful, documented cancer treatments using green juices? Check out http://www.Gerson.org
I am beyond confused and dismayed by this article. Sarah, I appreciate your blog and passion, and am wondering about your credentials. Are you a dietician or naturopath or something? Please help me understand from where you get your information.
Thank you.
marina
I think using green juices therapeutically is a great idea, and really works, but not beyond that. I myself do a 3 day green smoothie fast every spring, using mostly parsley, watercress and cucumbers with some fruits.
aubri
Gerson therapy does allow some greens like beet tops, but no spiniach unless it is cooked. I think people see a large improvement on green smoothies because there is a lot of good nutrition in them and they are such a vast improvement above what most people are eating. People’s argument of “well I feel phenomenal while I drink them” is not really a great point. People usually feel great when they start a vegetarian diet because they are detoxing from so many SAD foods. I think they could be a great idea for people to do as a cleanse or health booster for a time, but the possible long-term negative effects are something that people should be aware of. There are obviously a few people posting on here who did recover from oxalate overload when they stopped drinking them.
People need to quit being so extreme. Just because Sarah educated us about some facts and said she personally avoids them people are attacking her! (I realize you aren’t being rude, Marise, but some people are going crazy!)
thehealthyhomeeconomist via Facebook
The point of the article is that green smoothies are a fad and consuming raw leafy greens in the enormous quantities that people are consuming them in green smoothies is a recipe for health disaster due to the oxalate problem that is caused especially since people with candida issues already likely have an oxalate problem as fungus creates oxalates in the body so watching the amount of oxalates in the diet becomes even more important.
Susan Olvera via Facebook
I find this article informative, but one-sided. Leafy greens are rich in folate and about 45 % of the population is a carrier for the MTHFR polymorphism. It’s reported 99 % of people on the autism spectrum disorder have this polymorphism. Carriers have have several issues and one is the need for naturally occurring folate, and leafy greens are rich in this. Lack of folate ( not synthetic folic acid, this is very bad for carriers ) plays a role in miscarriage. And addressing the WAPF way of living, Dr. Price specifically believed a lack of phosphorus and calcium were a direct contribution to tooth decay and leafy greens provide a perfect ratio of this. I’m not skipping out on my green smoothies or greens.
Sean
You are full of bull!!! Jack Lalanne juiced his entire life and died and a ripe OLD age of 92. He was generally in good health his entire life. You are nothing more than an alarmist and you offer no scientific proof of your claim. Our own bodies actually produce oxalates by themselves without any help from juiced leafy green vegetables.
Sean
Follow-up to previous post.
Oxalates are naturally-occurring substances found in plants, animals, and in humans. In chemical terms, oxalates belong to a group of molecules called organic acids, and are routinely made by plants, animals, and humans. Our bodies always contain oxalates, and our cells routinely convert other substances into oxalates. For example, vitamin C is one of the substances that our cells routinely convert into oxalates. In addition to the oxalates that are made inside of our body, oxalates can arrive at our body from the outside, from certain foods that contain them.
Foods that contain oxalates
The following are some examples of the most common sources of oxalates, arranged by food group. It is important to note that the leaves of a plant almost always contain higher oxalate levels than the roots, stems, and stalks.
Fruits
blackberries, blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, currants, kiwifruit, concord (purple) grapes, figs, tangerines, and plums
Vegetables (see Table 1 for additional information)
spinach, Swiss chard, beet greens, collards, okra, parsley, leeks and quinoa are among the most oxalate-dense vegetables
celery, green beans, rutabagas, and summer squash would be considered moderately dense in oxalates
Nuts and seeds
almonds, cashews, and peanuts
Legumes
soybeans, tofu and other soy products
Grains
wheat bran, wheat germ, quinoa (a vegetable often used like a grain)
Other
cocoa, chocolate, and black tea
Oxalates and health
Conditions that require strict oxalate restriction
There are a few, relatively rare health conditions that require strict oxalate restriction. These conditions include absorptive hypercalciuria type II, enteric hyperoxaluria, and primary hyperoxaluria. Dietary oxalates are usually restricted to 50 milligrams per day under these circumstances. (Please note: these relatively rare health conditions are different than a more common condition called nephrolithiasis in which kidney stones are formed, 80% from calcium and oxalate). What does 50 milligrams of oxalate look like in terms of food? One cup of raw spinach in leaf form (not chopped) weighs about one ounce, and contains about 200 milligrams of oxalate, so 50 milligrams for the day would permit a person to consume only 1/4 cup of raw spinach (and no other oxalate sources could be eaten during the day).
Oxalates and kidney stones
The formation of kidney stones containing oxalate is an area of controversy in clinical nutrition with respect to dietary restriction of oxalate. About 80% of kidney stones formed by adults in the U.S. are calcium oxalate stones. It is not clear from the research, however, that restriction of dietary oxalate helps prevent formation of calcium oxalate stones in individuals who have previously formed such stones. Since intake of dietary oxalate accounts for only 10-15% of the oxalate that is found in the urine of individuals who form calcium oxalate stones, many researchers believe that dietary restriction cannot significantly reduce risk of stone formation.
In addition to the above observation, recent research studies have shown that intake of protein, calcium, and water influence calcium oxalate affect stone formation as much as, or more than intake of oxalate. Finally, some foods that have traditionally been assumed to increase stone formation because of their oxalate content (like black tea) actually appear in more recent research to have a preventive effect. For all of the above reasons, when healthcare providers recommend restriction of dietary oxalates to prevent calcium oxalate stone formation in individuals who have previously formed stones, they often suggest “limiting” or “reducing” oxalate intake rather than setting a specific milligram amount that should not be exceeded. “Reduce as much as can be tolerated” is another way that recommendations are often stated.
The effect of cooking on oxalates
Cooking has a relatively small impact on the oxalate content of foods. Repeated food chemistry studies have shown no statistically significant lowering of oxalate content following the blanching or boiling of green leafy vegetables. A lowering of oxalate content by about 5-15% is the most you should expect when cooking a high-oxalate food. It does not make sense to overcook oxalate-containing foods in order to reduce their oxalate content. Because many vitamins and minerals are lost from overcooking more quickly than are oxalates, the overcooking of foods (particularly vegetables) will simply result in a far less nutritious diet that is minimally lower in oxalates.
Practical tips
For the vast majority of individuals who have not experienced the specific problems described above, oxalate-containing foods should not be a health concern. Under most circumstances, high oxalate foods like spinach can be eaten raw or cooked and incorporated into a weekly or daily meal plan as both baby spinach and mature, large leaf spinach can both make healthy additions to most meal plans. In short, the decision about raw versus cooked or baby versus mature leaf spinach or other oxalate-containing vegetables, for example, should be a matter of personal taste and preference for most individuals.
Table 1
Raw Vegetable Oxalate contentmilligrams per 100 gram serving
Spinach 750
Beet greens 610
Okra 146
Parsley 100
Leeks 89
Collard greens 74
Adapted from the following sources: (1) United States Department of Agriculture, Human Nutrition Information Service, Agriculture Handbook Number 8-11, “Composition of Foods: Vegetables and Vegetable Products.” Revised August 1984; (2) data gathered by LithoLink Corporation, a metabolic testing and disease management service for kidney stone patients, founded by Dr. Fredric Coe, a University of Chicago Medical School Professor, and posted on its website at http://www.litholink.com; (3)data presented by Holmes RP and Kennedy M. (2000). Estimation of the oxalate content of foods and daily oxalate intake. Kidney International(4):1662.
References
Assimos, D. G. and Holmes, R. P. Role of diet in the therapy of urolithiasis. Urol Clin North Am. 2000 May; 27(2):255-68.
Curhan, G. C. Epidemiologic evidence for the role of oxalate in idiopathic nephrolithiasis. J Endourol. 1999 Nov; 13(9):629-31.
Hanson, C. F.; Frankos, V. H., and Thompson, W. O. Bioavailability of oxalic acid from spinach, sugar beet fibre and a solution of sodium oxalate consumed by female volunteers. Food Chem Toxicol. 1989 Mar; 27(3):181-4.
Kelsay, J. L. and Prather, E. S. Mineral balances of human subjects consuming spinach in a low-fiber diet and in a diet containing fruits and vegetables. Am J Clin Nutr. 1983 Jul; 38(1):12-9.
Kikunaga, S.; Arimori, M., and Takahashi, M. The bioavailability of calcium in spinach and calcium-oxalate to calcium-deficient rats. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol(Tokyo). 1988 Apr; 34(2):195-207.
Parivar, F.; Low, R. K., and Stoller, M. L. The influence of diet on urinary stone disease. J Urol. 1996 Feb; 155(2):432-40
Prakash D, Nath P, and Pal M. (1993). Composition, variation of nutritional contents in leaves, seed protein, fat and fatty acid profile of chenopodium species. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture 62(2):203-205.
Sienera R. (2006). Oxalate contents of species of the Polygonaceae, Amaranthaceae and Chenopodiaceae families. Food Chemistry 98(2):220-224.
Cheryl
Oh Sean, THANK YOU!! That is quality information, not happenstance non-sense that this original post is chocked full of. I am highly surprised little Miss Know-It-All Sarah didnt verbally backhand you.
But i am sure she may try to as it seems she cant handle anyone “insulting” her with the truth.
Tina
Again? You sound hypocritical. You appear to be what you accuse Sarah of… an insulted know it all.
Cheryl
Actually, Tina I am not an economist turned nutrition nut like Sarah claims to be. I actually studied this stuff and have degrees in Nutrition and Food Science, Molecular Biology and a few other than correlate. this blog was brought to my attention through a friend and colleague. This type of blogging really needs to be shut down. this post is obviously driven by opinion not fact. She has one obscure source from which it is to be assumed she has conjured these conclusions. All I have asked is that she post rational valid proof of what she is claiming other wise it is just hearsay. None of what she has is hard evidence of anything. It is all circumstantial. I am not insulting her I am stating that she comes across and an expert and yet she has NO validation and her credentials are lacking. Economics is a far different science from biology and natural chemistry. You cant just decide , “Ah I bored and because I have a degree in something and I have passion for something else I am an expert.” But alas that is what the blogging universe has become, few actual true experts but a caboodle of yappers that think they know what they are talking about.
shedevr
otherwise
Jana
I can’t sit by and let one of my favourite bloggers be verbally assaulted like this! What I would like to know is, why are you people, who not only so obviously do not agree with Sarah or WAPF principles but also seem quite rude, even reading this blog? If it’s only to insult Sarah, then shame on you! It’s a free country and she has the right to voice her opinion, particularly on HER OWN BLOG! This is Sarah’s blog. Go get your own blog!
prime
I can’t stand this article and think she’s an idiot and I’m not subscribed to this blog. Someone shared it on FB and scared the crap out of other people not subscribed to her blog. Newsflash: there’s a thing called social media where stupid, inaccurate, LIES are shared and it’s harmful. I will NEVER subscribe to this, trust me! so that hopefully answers your question. This retarded article got put in people’s news feeds and we have the RIGHT (freedom of expression) to call it bull.
Jana
Prime, sure you have the right to call things what you want I guess, as this is a free country. But, if you’re not interested in this kind of thinking about health, why would you bother? I’m sure you have far more important things to attend to. You also don’t make any friends by spouting off like this. Since you agreed that we have the right to express ourselves as we see fit, then why not let Sarah express her opinion in peace? You think it’s bull, she thinks it’s valid. Since this is her blog, I think you must graciously concede.
Watchmom3
Sean, just FYI. I would not bother to post all that info AFTER you begin with rudeness. I will not read it, and I suspect others feel the same. Wouldn’t it have been better to dialogue in a respectful manner with Sarah, than to join in the name-calling with CheryL? THINK.
Will
You suspect that others will join you in sticking their heads in the sand knowing there is a through list of sources that disagree with something you want to believe because he said the author was “full of bull”?
There is a lot left out on the topic of “candida or other fungal challenges”. Antibiotics pave the way to a lot of that stuff. A good probiotic, or plain greek yogurt with a small drizzle of honey or pinch of blueberries every night can give those fungal challenges (as well as the prescriptions given for them) a run for their money.
Will
*thorough.
Seana
Jack Lalanne probably didn’t have a candida or fungal issue. Some figures show that as many as 80% of Americans probably have candida issues.
Try not to be so abrasive! It’s fine to disagree but the majority of people on here are acting like they’ve been attacked personally.
Alexis
Ahhhhh here we go again….dont you sound like a hypocrite! How can you accuse Sarah of sounding like a know it all when thats exactly how you sound? And honestly…please do not comment on this blog if you do not agree with at least some of the Weston A Price philosophies or if you’re not willing to present your opinion tactfully without being rude. And no disrespect…but you having degrees doesnt say much about you either. Those are just things that you were taught by “the man”. Its just like religion and science. There are 2 sides to everything. In this case its the old way of doing things and the new way.
Will
You underestimate the damage and roadblocks that misinformation can spread when something somehow makes it’s way to the top of the search results despite being based on one or two questionable sources. It might seem trivial, but you never know how many people might’ve been steered away from something that could make a world of difference in their life because they get this article stuck in their head and don’t go through the comments.
I am not a vegan, I am not a vegetarian, I am not a paleo diet commando, and I eat meats, coconut oil, and the greens too. My bias, my “agenda” here, is having to explain to my elders after they linked me this article, to please research beyond this blog post, and I’m not the only one who came here in this boat.
John Taylor via Facebook
Oxalate is water soluble. If you’re going to consume a high-oxalate diet drink plenty of water.
Christi Ward via Facebook
2 words. Hog! Wash!
Jennifer Dayley via Facebook
PS: The lady above in the video cured herself of severe MS.
Karen Vaughan
Yes, Dr. Terry Whal’s three-plates of veggies especially kale paleo diet did cure her of MS and is probably good for Parkinson’s, other neurological conditions and a wide variety of autoimmune diseases. People with thyroid sensitivity may need to steam cruciferous vegetables first. I recommend the video to my patients and my doctor has recommended it to me. She doesn’t have kidney stone issues and perhaps people who do need to choose different greens, or maybe not since the research isn’t clear about eating oxalates as opposed to manufacturing oxalic acid crystals.
Jennifer Dayley via Facebook
“If you enjoy green leafy vegetables, enjoy them only on occasion in a salad or even better, cook them thoroughly in lots of butter and carefully drain and discard all the cooking water — never use it in soups and sauces!”??? That’s interesting. Watch this video & then tell me raw leafy green vegetables aren’t HUGELY important. I DO agree with moderation in all things, & “too cold” or “too hot” can be detrimental to your health, especially if consumed too often. And I don’t have a problem with cooking in small amounts of butter, but I do NOT agree with discarding the cooking water (which so many of the nutrients transferred too) & keeping green leafies to a minimum. I agree with several points in the article, but there are just certain things that don’t fit. Who’s ever heard of not eating a lot of greens??? That’s a new one to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
Keria Ann Schmeida via Facebook
I’m curious about powdered drinks such as ormus greens that we have drank here before (makes it easier to take to work, etc) and were considering getting into again. I’m curious if the oxalates are stable enough to survive through that kind of dehydrating/cooking as well?
Lynn Therrien
I’ve been a WAPF eater for almost 10 years. I just started green smoothies with an organic spring mix to bring more “raw” into my diet, thinking more along the lines of Pottinger’s group. I’m striving for weight loss, more energy, less constipation (even though I go every day). I can only do so many fermented veggies and I thought this might fill a void in my diet and provide a simple lunch. Could you suggest a healthy smoothie that is not kefir based? I already do plain dairy kefir in the morning. My green smoothie has the following: raw egg yolk, cold pressed coconut oil, raw milk, frozen berries, freshly squeezed orange juice, stevia, and two handfuls of spring mix baby greens.
Thanks!
Catherine Garbus via Facebook
raw greens are not good for us they are good for cows… people dont eat grass they cant digest it
Karen
So, what I think you’re getting at is that we end up consuming a lot more greens in a smoothie or juiced than we would likely eat in a salad causing our moderation sensor to be “off”. Normally, we might blend our greens in a salad and have smaller portions because, let’s be frank, they aren’t the tastiest thing. I’d say in relation to candida, the sugar is mainly the instigator. When we make smoothies (rather than a small juice or salad), we tend to add high sugar fruits. Might as well eat ice cream at that point. So a smoothie every once in a while isn’t bad but instead of juicing an entire head of kale or collard to put in it, maybe just have a leaf or two, and rather than add in a bunch of fruit to sweeten, possibly some lemon, celery and cucumber so we aren’t oxalated AND sugared out simultaneously which both feed candida. Am I getting this right?
Catherine Garbus via Facebook
ohhh great !!
Jan Taylor Judd via Facebook
When you link to the article at the bottom at the Weston Price foundation it says this ” Lettuces, by the way, are very low in oxalates. The biggest problem vegetarians face is eating a diet high in soy protein and spinach.” I’m going to stick with my daily salad for lunch, but be more aware of how large amounts of spinach & a few other foods can affect me. I suffer from Candida, so it was a very interesting read (especially the linked article).
Becky Katzorke via Facebook
I started using frozen, organic spinach so that it is already steamed. Problem solved. I find this post to be a bit inflammatory.
Cheryl
Sarah, you should take this post down, redo your research, and THEN maybe post something of valid worth. You are obviously not fully educated in the matter, but simply over-informed as many of your followers. Make sure to include IUs, RDI/RDA, DV or ANY kind of standard unit of measure. Dont just say large; large is relative. You are putting unwarranted fear into people. As with so many bloggers out there you take a grain of truth and wrap it up with opinions and circumstantial evidence. Now, go be a good little over achiever and get your fact straight!!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Would you care to comment on my hairstyle and wardrobe as well?
marina
Cheryl, even some RDA and nutritionists might know less than Sarah. There were a couple of times when my mentor (nutritionist, where people are lining up to work with her because of great results, mostly by referalls) had nutritionists come to consultations with her because they spent months eating only raw veggies, drinking juices and the like, with a result of their health deteriorating. Why would a nutritionist come to another nutritionist for a consult? Don’t they know enough or can research stuff themselves?
Aimee Ridgway
Unfortunately I have found that even naturopaths/homeopaths are taught the standard dogma about low fat diets, saturated fat, cholesterol, fibre, polyunsaturated vegetable oil and soy. I am constantly dismayed and saddened about this! But it is fact. People like Sarah are paving the way for a truth that isn’t taught via the regular channels.
Cheryl
Seriously?? You whole post is flawed with lack of critical information. i am not saying you know nothing, i said you are not posting the full truth. You have not guidelines or amounts, only relative descriptors. Get you facts straight means get amounts on the board, get some valid evidence. You whole post has very little credit if you submitted it to an actual magazine they would turn you down. So you blog because you dont need to be edited when you are a blogger. Seriously get a freaking clue as to what you are posting. Quit with these bullying scare tactics of misused information. Your post is near the equivalent of saying taking calcium supplements will give you kidneys stones. That statement has truth to it, but it is not that cut and dried. Sarah, serious repost completely with proper information. With proper credentials. Dont just claim to be a know-it-all and freak out with a bullying type of challenge when someone counters your supposed knowledge.
Tina
Wow. Taken a personal evaluation of your own personality and communication skills lately?
Tawanda
It’s interesting that this post is such a problem and I’ve seen scare and fear in several comments. Why is this simply not awareness information. Information that you can choose to use and increase your awareness or not. Some followers of this blog are individuals who have looked at traditional diets and have interpreted its tenets along the same lines as what’s posted. We live in a society where if we are told a little is helpful, more, greater, and daily consumption should be even better.
This post reminds us about the issues of eating (some) raw veggies and specifically leafy greens and the exageration of this consumption when raw veggies are then added to smoothies as is currently a popular health trend. I see this post very much consistent with what we know of traditional diets.
Aimee Ridgway
Well said !
Watchmom3
Cheryl, I will NEVER understand why people, such as yourself, decide to be so RUDE when you disagree with someone! Please explain what justifies that? If you don’t agree, that is FINE! Just don’t try to FORCE someone to agree with YOU! That is the inferred and impolite tone that you conveyed. It is no different than going into someone’s house and deciding to tell them how stupid you think their home and decor, etc. is, IN YOUR OPINION! I will politely suggest that you find another blog that totally agrees with you. BORING, but your choice. I see this attitude everywhere now and I am SAD that people just walk all over others in their journey. You will enjoy your life more if you don’t mistreat others. Just a suggestion.
Kelly
Watchmom, the same could be said for your comment. I will never understand why some people feel the need to YELL at people with ALL CAPS in order to get their POINT across. It’s just as IMPOLITE, and frankly hypocritical of you to call someone out for similar behaviour.
But I guess that’s just my OPINION! Sheesh.
Susan Haddeland via Facebook
“If you enjoy green leafy vegetables, enjoy them only on occasion in a salad or even better, cook them thoroughly in lots of butter and carefully drain and discard all the cooking water — never use it in soups and sauces!” Did I just read this correctly? Cook them thoroughly in lots of butter for a HEALTHIER alternative to raw, leafy greens? *SMH*
Aimee Ridgway
If you dont know the basics like the amazing nutrient dense qualities that is butter, don’t comment on this blog.
Aneta
I would like to know what a safe amount of raw leafy greens would be? Interesting article. I had never even considered that green smoothies could be harmful. I like to eat my spinach sauteed in butter with scrambled eggs and I love kale chips baked w grapeseed oil. Hope that is a healthy way to consume them. Thanks for the info!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I eat leafy greens in a salad or cooked with butter about twice a week at most. That is all I would consider doing … I am recovered from candida and would never even consider eating them more frequently than this due to the danger of the oxalates. There are PLENTY of other veggies to eat that are much lower in oxalates!
Omnivore89
Oxalates are only dangerous to those with compromised digestives systems, ie with dysbiosis or leaky gut syndrome. Normally, these oxalates would be digested by the gut flora in your colon and wouldnt be so detrimental. If you do find that you have issues with kidney stones and oxalates, look into repairing your digestive system first.
Betty
When I just read the title of this article I felt annoyed… but I think we should all remember not to read these articles so literally. Sarah has some good info here… but I believe if it was presented from a different point of view (ie. the BENEFITS of preparing these greens with butter, and how green smoothies may not be your BEST option, or maybe… why you shouldn’t follow fad diets etc.) then maybe it wouldn’t have caused such an uproar.
For those coming off SAD diets and reading this, I could see how they’d be frustrated with all the rules and theories. Take what you want from it… or not. Dissecting our food isn’t exactly the healthiest habit or mindset. Just do the best you can and be aware… and live your life!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
The point is that green smoothies are a fad and that they are dangerous when consumed at the frequent and almost daily level that people are consuming them.
Marie
I do not believe green smoothies are a fad exactly– it’s just a way of ingesting fruits and vegetables. Our whole family has them almost every day but we use different food in them– dandelion, spinach, kale, bok choy, carrots, romaine, red leaf lettuce, butternut lettuce ( I think it’s called). And while I agree with Betty that this was presented in a way that is confusing, I did get something out of it.
Green smoothies can be an easy part of a balanced diet. Spinach need not be used all the time, and I wish that point had been made, and that variety is key.
Lindsey @ Road to 31
Articles like this are really harmful to people who are already struggling to eat a good healthy diet. It only serves to make them fearful to eat. I live in an area where it is much harder to come by healthy food and we have an extremely short growing season and only a small garden plot. To get raw milk I would have to drive 5 hours. When we drive 100 mi. into town to be able to get good healthy food, we are on a serious budget. Reading things like this only frustrate me and put me on a guilt trip because it makes me feel as if I am not doing enough and I am hurting my children by feeding them the huge vat of organic spinach I bought them when we were in town that cost a lot of money because we like spinach and its a heck of a lot better than hamburger helper. We don’t have enough space to buy 10 types of greens and rotate.
Nikki
Traditional cultures had access to tons and tons of raw veggies and leafy greens. Sally Fallon is running the Weston A Price foundation changing it so that it seems like all Price promoted for good health was animal products. Romaine and kale will serve you far more nutritionwise than butter + raw milk. We are talking fat vs. vitamins and minerals here. Think of it this way, how many of your ancestors back up to the first human ever, had access to leafy greens? How many had access to dairy cows?
Jonathan
My guess is that perhaps the focus on certain foods is in large part because of how they are demonized by the conventional wisdom. There is a great amount of nutrition in butter and raw milk…sure some things are better about Kale and Romaine, but butter and raw milk are really good too.
Of course people don’t normally talk negatively about eating plants except for small articles like this one pointing out how some people could have an issue with certain plants if they are eaten too much without enough variety.
I found it pretty easy to read mention of fruits and vegetables….they have that too on the site. Sure there might be a bit more focus on the animal foods, but like I said they are criticized much more strongly and have quite a bit of false information thrown at them constantly by CW nutritionists, dieticians, doctors, etc…How many articles from those conventional sources will mention anything bad about vegetables? Many times they are pushing vegan/vegetarian diets.
How often are they saying animal foods are health? Perhaps a few articles on fish point out the benefits, but there aren’t many other articles on how healthy animal foods can be.
Rhonda Balzano via Facebook
In a previous article (attached) you stated “The good news is that oxalic acid is reduced by a light steaming or cooking – just be sure to discard the cooking water.” but today’s post says otherwise. Please explain. http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/think-raw-veggies-are-best-think-again/
Mikki
Sarah, how do you feel about dairy smoothies made from raw milk/plain yogurt, fruit, eggs?
Melissa
Wow, you struck a cord with many on this one. You state “If you enjoy green leafy vegetables, enjoy them only on occasion in a salad or even better, cook them thoroughly in lots of butter and carefully drain and discard all the cooking water — never use it in soups and sauces!” Would you please explain how we can still enjoy green and reduce the oxalate? If you are cooking fresh greens in butter, there would not be any cooking water to discard? Are you suggesting we need to steam the veggies first, discard the cooking water, and then add butter to the greens?
Rachel
What about chlorpylyy? Gallstones are they related to this info?
Terri V.
Vicky, you are a nutritionist and you believe that eating fat makes you fat? Wow. And, no offense but mainstream nutritionists have fallen prey to every “fad” and bad piece of nutrition advice to come down the pike in the last twenty years. Eggs are perfect example. For YEARS those in your field were freakish about not eating too many eggs per week because of the cholesterol and then OOPS, our bad, eggs are actually an almost perfect food and fine to eat and what’s more, consumed cholesterol has little to no lasting impact on blood cholesterol levels anyway. With all the latest info and studies that have come out in the last two years regarding the fallacy of the low-fat way of eating I”m actually kind of shocked that you posted what you did. Harvard School of Public Health just came out with the (I think) the latest, saying there was no evidence to support low-fat=health and we should but low-fat diets to bed for good.
Wysteria Jackson via Facebook
Ug…enter…
1. If you drain the liquid what about the magnesium? Leafy greens are about as high as you can get in Magnesium based on my research. So do we supplement because we aren’t getting nearly any in our diet because we drain off the liquid for fear of oxalates?
2. The main issue I have personally found with green smoothies is that they don’t contain fats. When I (personally) began adding coconut oil my teeth and health improved.
3. You do realize that your article is basically saying greens are bad for you, correct? What would you suggest as an alternative?
4. Green smoothies are what get many people headed down the healthy path as they can see quick results, do you really want to turn people away from that?
Ursula Pasche Stouffer via Facebook
Thank you for a great article. Nobody believes me when I am saying these things…… maybe they will believe it if somebody else does!
Awilda Sanchez via Facebook
from what i’ve studied over the years, this writer failed to mention that one must have an ENOURMOUS amounts of greens everyday to have oxalate build-up. the 1-2 cups of raw greens in a smoothie, even more and daily, is not enough to cause harm. this article certainly did not consider to include the many, many studies that find greens to be the foundation of a good healthy diet.
Emily
This article is as bad and off base as the article on how to remove a tick. What’s next? Unreal the horrible advice given here. How much does the Price foundation pay you to say these things?
Sharon
Thanks for the article! What about “green supplements” … the organic packets that contain all the nutrients of green leafy veggies? thanks!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
I am not a fan of “green” powder supplements. They are highly processed after all … who knows what kind of nutrition is actually left in them? I would just eat some of the sacred traditional foods instead. I have a video plus written blog on these important foods for health.
Veronica
How about the quantum greens mix that radiant life catalog website recommends?
Afton
Once my asthmatic & low immune system (at the time 3 yr. old) son was given a green smoothie daily (1/3 c), all his asthma symptoms went away. He hasn’t had any serious illness or an asthma attack in almost 3 years. I solely believe it was from the green smoothies. We don’t have them as much anymore but still feel they supply much needed nutrition. I feel that the broth/cod liver oil/traditional foods help the inside of the body in an important way but different from the smoothies. I feel fully balanced with both. I have wondered why my mom didn’t give me spinach in a smoothie or salad since I can’t stand cooked spinach with vinegar, yuck! I will try it cooked with butter. I doubt I will like it; I hope I’m wrong.
Wysteria Jackson via Facebook
Alright, my internet let me finally get in. I have a few questions.
Cindy Torrey via Facebook
Are you kidding me?!?! Time to unlike this page!!!
Linda
No one if forced as far as I know to read Sarah’s blogs .
Carrie Miller via Facebook
Im not sure that I can get into the article either. I think its just a ploy to get people to not get healthier so they can remain on pharms drugs etc. Mainstream is constantly turning a blind eye to natural things and natural remedies because that would mean money loss. If you do research from the beginning of time the healthiest people were the ones who had a very high diet of raw fruits and veggies, we need those most along with water and then other things are below that like grains, meats, etc Moderation I do think is important but I will not stop having a green smoothie a day just because someone is trying to tell me now that veggies are bad for you and should limit them to only once in awhile
Amy
I cannot believe you just suggested that Sarah is pro- pharma! You haven’t read any of her other posts!
Laura
Carrie- Apparently you have never read Sarah’s blog or have a clue as to the research she has at hand by Dr. Weston price. You just read the article and then went off on a rant of your own opinion that was completely unfounded. People are telling Sarah to do the research when in fact you have not done it yourself. Yes the article could have been a little more clear for those that have never read about or know what her blog is about or have never eaten traditionally. But to get all bent out of shape over her recommendation to eat in moderation and to be aware of the harm you are doing to your body by eating too much of this is just ridiculous. Keep eating the way you want. It’s your right to eat what you want. But if you ever are concerned then do some research on Weston Price and his findings and see what is seriously wrong with the way things are being done today and why we are having all of the issues, diseases, and mass use of pharmaceuticals that we are suddenly having. And to trust newer research that is led by the pharmaceutical companies? Wake up people! If you care about your health then take a better look at the way you prepare your foods. If not then carry on.
Tawanda
This was a much needed post given the confusion over health benefits of green smoothies.
Sabrina Ball via Facebook
This article is poorly written, do your own research people and don’t stop eating raw leafy greens!
Kim Paider via Facebook
@Alyssa Pilat – I am not disagreeing with moderation, or really with her point at all. I think the issue most of us are having here is how this was communicated. Notice how everyone is going “Huh?” There are unanswered questions. If you click on the original article that she cites at the bottom of this one, it is more thorough. But still — sending out a message saying to “opt out” entirely — based on the information stated in ONE article? Not very responsible when 17,000 people are reading your blog.
Kate Suits
I remember this similar topic “Think Raw Veggies…” from 10/10 (awhile ago) and you said if I were to blanch my kale that would be fine “no need to cook it to death”. Kale is in my green smoothie! What about Kale Chips? Lord help me!
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Fine in moderation!!! The problem with green smoothies as that these folks drink them all the time and the amount of raw leafy greens is them is very large.
Kate Suits
Thank you, Sarah!
Mrs. Mac
This thread is beginning to sound like the ‘telephone’ game. It starts out with certain facts and is getting twisted the further down it goes. Moderation people. Green smoothies are somewhat of a fad. Eat your veggies in moderation and quit whining.
Helen T
Laughing!
Amanda
You keep saying “fine in moderation” but you didn’t make that the focus of your article. What you are doing is scaring away people who drink green smoothies in moderation or those who would benefit from adding them to their life. You may say that isn’t true but the fear-mongering language you use in the article suggests otherwise. And I have read through these comments enough to know that is a fact. How many of your readers have just told you they are no longer putting spinach in their smoothies or eating raw salads? Or thanking you for sharing something with them that they did not know? How many of those people actually had a problem with drinking green smoothies too frequently and in large enough quantities to warrant a problem? My guess is none. I personally do not know anybody who takes in so many raw greens or green smoothies to have a problem with high oxalates. Maybe you do but you did not share any examples in your article.
If you did want to encourage moderation, you should have titled your article differently. It seems to me that we have bigger problems to worry about than people drinking green smoothies!
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Exactly! Some people drink literally a bushel of high-oxalate leafy greens each day in their smoothies/juices . . . that is where it gets troubling for me.
Ashley Is Fly’ via Facebook
I don’t drnk alot of green smoothies..maybe once a week but i pretty much have a big salad everyday and I will continue to do so. Now leafy greens are bad? give me a break. like another poster said i believe leafy greens are excellet for the body. Everyday it seems like something else is bad for you. I have come to the conclusion that I ma going to eat whatever I want but just listen to my body.
Jenny
I think you are ding your readers a major disservice by lumping all green leafy veg into this category and then presenting their consumption as alarmist. The one, and only, source you cite calls out is spinach as the specific leafy green to be wary of but focuses more strongly on Soy and Peanuts which are not components of the drinks you are being alarmist about. What about sweet potatoes, chocolate, black pepper, and tea which are also cited. Will we be having a sweeping, alarmist “Don’t Drink Tea or eat Chocolate” article too?
Additionally, the recommendation in your cited article is an increase in calcium citrate and Omega 3 fatty acids or vegetable oils – NOT BUTTER. Recommending people avoid all leafy greens in general and cook them in loads of butter is not only an incorrect reading it is woefully unhealthful for a society riddled with nutritional deficiencies and “unfoods” like high fructose corn syrups, etc.
The article states that “The supplement that is most helpful is vitamin B6”. Know what B6 is found in? Spinach. And bananas – a common smoothie additive.
More sources and some grounded advice from a certified nutritionist might help me take this seriously but as it stands I am saddened at scaremongering.
Vickie Innes
Check out this website http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48
Beth
Thanks for that great link!
Gabriella
You just put butter in the same category as HFCS. No further commentary on your credibility is needed.
Vickie Innes
You should not be allowed to write articles about nutrition. Oxalate is not harmful, but once cooked, oxalic acid can increase the risk of developing kidney stones. Get your facts straight before writing articles about foods that are on this plant to make people healthy. O yea, and the fat you eat is the fat you where. Stop telling people to douse their food with fat. Candida is a result of too much fat in the blood stream, not green leafy vegetables. Eat more fat if you want to get heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.
Victoria Innes
MS Human Nutrition
Vickie Innes
planet*, wear*
sorry no spell check on here
Jenny
Agree. You really should not be allowed to write articles about nutrition. You are doing people a major disservice.
Steve
Agreed! How about siting some of your resources for this article? Steering people away from or worse yet scaring them about drinking green smoothies is absurd. Yes, moderation is key. Yes, real butter is better than margarine. Unless you’re drinking a gallon/day + for extended periods of time, you have nothing to worry about! Not cool… this article is a better reminder for you to do your own research from QUALIFIED individuals who do actual research instead of just blogging about their opinions with little or no factual basis.
Dr. Steven A. Mikulak, DC, CCSP
Karen Vaughan
Also agreed about the sources. I usually find that when I’m blogging it is easy to add a link to sources like pubMed, or to list them at the end. Given that the idea that consuming oxalates is a controversial contributor to kidney stones and other oxalate-related diseases, it would be good to see the pros and cons in the literature. Frankly I suspect that it has either more to do with the body’s ability to process minerals (cofactors missing? low Vitamin D status? minerals in wrong places due to leaky gut?) than consumption.
Also you mentioned that only 20% of people are sensitive to oxalates (source? -it seems high) but you frame many of your comments to everyone, as if they all are dealing with hidden oxalate poisoning. This is a condition that affects a minority of people, and it may even not be related to consumption of veggies, quinoa, etc.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
If you actually read the article you would see that it is sourced at the end of the post.
Gabriella
*citing. Ya lost all credibility with me there.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist
You are welcome not to read any articles I write which is simply exercising my right to free speech. You are also welcome to start your own blog to refute any points I make that you disagree with.
marina
That’s right Sarah. You are just educating people about different kinds of foods and how people can take a look at their diet, especially if they have health concerns, and make changes accordingly. I don’t know why people take your posts so personally. Actually, being a real food nutritionist, I am used to people taking things personally if they do not agree with something I recommend to them. At first I was offended but now I believe everyone has their own path and I just set an intention to attract ideal clients who will be actually helped by my services and knowledge. It is working out pretty well!
Bradley
here you go Sarah, a blog with real nutritionists and Doctors refuting your erroneous blog…
http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green-smoothies/why-green-smoothies-will-not-devastate-your-health/
Helen T
Brad – I’ve had the misfortune of dealing with real doctors with my health. That’s why I’m interested in nutrition now.
Ursula
You’re linking to a VEGAN website…. that shows how much you know. This lady got healthier likely because she cut out gluten, dairy etc…… but she likely won’t be so healthy for long, as vegans eventually end up with severe nutritional deficiencies and early death as a result of their misguided ideas.
It is good for detox purposes to eat raw vegan for about a MONTH if you have severe health problems (especially cancer), but after that you damage your health unless you put meat, saturated fat etc. back into your diet.
cassie
I don’t know about the leafy greens causing issues, but I do know that oxalate is just the the anion in oxalic acid. If oxalic acid is a problem, then really, oxalate is *the* problem because oxalic acid is a fairly strong acid (has a pKa of around 1.3) and therefore is present as the oxalate and hydronium ions. Your assertion that oxalate doesn’t hurt, but oxalic acid does makes no sense. What does the cooking do?
Cassie
MS Chemistry, if you’re curious
Jen
I was thinking the same thing Cassie.
Nikki
Cooking makes the oxalate in spinach more bioavailable, just like cooking makes the iron in spinach more bioavailable and the lycopene in tomatoes more bioavailable. Food combining is important as well, so read about that especially when cooking, as some foods have nutrients that bind together and can’t be eliminated well, and form things such as these crystals and kidney stones.
dani
Vickie this is literally the most ridiculous assertion I have ever read. Candida, cancer and diabetes are the result of fat consumption and not sugar? They don’t call diabetes “the sugars” for nothin’! Sugar feeds both cancer cells and fungus in the GI tract. You do realize our brains are 60% fat, our hormones rely on fat? Healthy fats are absolutely essential to the human body. We have been consuming them safely forever, and only recently has fat gotten a bad reputation. Only recently have low-fat/high-carb diets become the norm, and the rates of heart disease, diabetes and cancer are higher than ever. Just because you were taught this does not make it true, you need to do your own research. Carbs turn to glucose once digested, spiking blood sugar and being stored as fat. Healthy fats are used for energy, not stored. Get YOUR facts straight.
dani
PS- Certified Clinical Nutrition Consultant
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Amen from an RN!
Gabi
Double that Amen!!! (from a journalist and herbal/nutrition health consultant)
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Candida as a result of hyperlipidemia? That’s strange . . . they don’t teach that in nursing school and I have never come across it in any journals. What does Candida eat again? Oh, that’s right, sugar. Why are diabetics susceptible to Candida? Oh, that’s right, their blood sugar is high and their immune system is down-regulated secondary to the sequela of high blood sugar. Wait, isn’t that a large part of the reason diabetics are though to have greater cancer risks according to the endocrinological literature? What are diabetics told to eat in lieu of sugar calories? Oh, that’s right, protein and fat. Eating fat causes fat deposition? Since when? Ever heard of the Mediterranean Diet that even most old-school MDs recommend these days, or the French Paradox? Time for some current, non-refined-carb-industry-sponsored CEUs me thinks. P.S., if the fat you eat were the fat you wear, then Sarah would not look as she does and I never would have lost my pregnancy weight. P.P.S., Lumping all fats into a single category is just plain ridiculous and ignores the past 50 years of science!
TinaD
Nicole, couldn’t agree more. All of the people I know who are fit and healthy eat plenty of natural fat and low carbs. Conversely, all of the people I know with weight problems are carb addicts. (And many of them eat low-fat and/or fat-substitute foods. Several of them have heart problems.) The fat you eat is certainly NOT the fat you wear! How outdated a statement this is! Scientifically, completely erroneous!
Jana
Excuse me, *allowed*???? I’m sorry, I have been under the impression we live in a free country. How sad that I’ve been wrong all these years!?! If you don’t like what you read here, then stop reading blogs like this! No one, as far as I know, is forcing you to read articles you so obviously do not agree with. This blog is for people who want to follow or are already following the Weston A. Price principles for healthy living.
Jana
This was meant to be a reply to Vickie Innes’ comment above but somehow didn’t show up in the right place!
Heidi
Vickie,
Oxalate is a toxin. Our bodies do produce it in small amounts, but our bodies’ entire response to oxalate is to 1.) keep it from being absorbed through the intestines and into the bloodstream and 2.) to try and get rid of it if we have absorbed it, or if too much is circulating in our systems for our kidneys to keep up, to tuck it away in other tissues where it won’t do as much damage as it does while circulating.
I don’t know how you could become a nutritionist without knowing the toxic effects of oxalate, but it is toxic to every person. The only difference in people is that some people’s bodies do a pretty good job of keeping oxalate out and getting rid of the oxalate that gets in and some people’s bodies don’t. Also, some people make a lot in their bodies and some don’t. The problem is, you might not know which one you are until you have already caused a lot of damage. Erring on the side of caution and reducing or eliminating the amount of high oxalate greens in your smoothies is a good idea for a lot of people. Also, cooking has absolutely no effect on oxalate. Some ways of cooking foods can reduce oxalate content in some vegetables, but cooking oxalic acid does not increase the risk of kidney stones. It actually lowers the risk if the vegetable is cooked properly.
I think it shows pretty poor form to flaunt your nutritionist credentials and to tell other people to learn more about health and nutrition when you do not understand oxalate yourself. I encourage you to read more about oxalate before flaunting this type of ignorance in a way that is meant to belittle and cut down the author of this article instead of trying to promote a genuine discussion of ideas.
Ursula
Wow Vickie…….. you’re a nutritionist? Good thing there are people out there who actually know what they’re talking about, like Sarah, because people listening to you wouldn’t live long.
Saturated fats help you lose weight, and low fat diets cause heart disease. Because the heart actually can’t function without saturated fat.
Candida is caused by sugars and carbs, not fat. Cancer is caused by fungus, which is fed by sugars and carbs. Diabetes is also caused by sugars and carbs.
Cut out grains and sugar, eat only one to two fruits a day, stop drinking fruit juice and eat more healthy fats like butter and lard, and you won’t have to worry about diabetes, candida and heart disease…… and it isn’t likely you’ll get cancer, either.
Jennifer Brooks via Facebook
Your article is completely misguided and conveniently leaves out many important facts:
1. Green smoothies are not necessarily made of up vegetables high in oxalate. In fact, kale has a very low oxalate content and is typically used as a green smoothie base.
2. Other very common foods, such as soy and peanuts contain higher oxalate levels than many different green vegetables.
3. Oxalate disorders have not been associated with dietary intake of oxalate.
4. People adapting a diet high in vegetables typically have a decrease in blood pressure, normalization of weight. There is no literature supporting that a diet rich in vegetables is associated with the diseases that you mention. In fact, those who eat more vegetables have an increased lifespan. Another fact, green vegetables have been found to be very important benefits and have not been associated with any adverse outcomes.
5. Your interpretation of the article is misleading at best. You are making the assumption that dietary intake of oxalate is associated with disorders relating to oxalate. Despite many attempts to prove this, no study has proven this to be true. Although dietary changes are recommended for some of the disorders that you mention, there is no scientific data to show that dietary restriction decreases oxalate levels.
There are many other nutritional issues worthy of our attention, but sending people the message that eating all green vegetables (yes, you don’t distinguish in your article) is wrong, not supported by the scientific literature and body of knowledge and is unethical.
Kate Suits
I LOVE kale in my smoothies – my 3-1/2 yo LOVES green smoothies. Thanks for your points.
tori
I totally agree with Jennifer and others commenting in the same vein.
I think this article is another in the long line that will yet come about: trying to convince the populace that nutrients are actually detrimental to health. If you don’t believe the powers that be are trying to do this, then you don’t know about CODEX ALIMENTARIOUS. I’m sorry that such a popular blogger is following in this dangerous trend and aiming people amiss.
Linda
If anyone on this good earth is concerned with nutrients and good healht it is Sarah
kasie
thank you for mentioning the actual article that has been interpreted here. As with anything, interpretations are too subjected. The sad part of our generation is that google provides so many of these ‘interpretations’ that we never bother to read the true source and decode it for ourselves. No one person can be right about everything, no matter HOW well-meaning they are. Lets all read the research ourselves (yes it can be daunting, but is there not a sense of accomplishment for teaching an old dog new tricks? lol). But I am thankful to have read this article, because it has spurred me to look into the research. Keep in mind folks, cutting out all cholesterol doesn’t lower high cholesterol, so could it be possible that cutting out all oxalates doesn’t fix high oxalate problems. Perhaps it could make it worse?
leslie
I agree with Kasie. People do your own research! One person is not the end all be all of information. There are a ton of books out there disagreeing with one another. Hello most doctors aren’t even given a proper nutritional background and a lot of nutritionists disagree about many things. READ! Rotate the greens on a daily basis and you’ll be fine. I read a lot about people hating their green smoothies? Ever heard of stevia, I have never had a bad green smoothie. 40% greens 60% fruit and always use either a banana or avocado for smooth drinks that don’t seperate. Also take the stems out for less bitter kale and out of chard for the saltiness. Romaine and regular green leafy lettuce work great too. I really wonder what Ann Wigmore would think of all of this, she cured cancers with green leafy veggies!
Helen T
Excuse me: the more I research, the more I don’t know. I recently came upon the work of Ray Peat who doesn’t like fermentation in veggies or dairy……so, yogurt is off the list!!
And then there’s Matt Stone who likes sugar again…..
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
It has never actually been “proven” that smoking cigarettes causes cancer either, but I would sure like to hear from folks who are making that suggestion.
The connection between consumed oxalates and kidney stones is convincing enough that they teach about it in American nursing schools.
P.S., First rule of the scientfic method is that nothing is ever “proven.” Science is about defeating the null hypothesis within a particular confidence interval–as any introductory statistics book will teach you. The preceding is always far from “proof.” Hence, we shouldn’t require “proof” prior to allowing a scientific finding to influence our health-related decisions.
TD
You’re right about the cigarettes. They are only a very low risk-factor for cancer, and nicotine boosts brain function which is helpful to delay the onset of Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. Cigs do, however, promote COPD and circulation issues.
Jake
Nicole you are being ridiculous now. I unstand that you are a “student” and believe you have insider info on all things medical but your just as sensational as Sarah. People are bothered by uses of the word “devestate” and “Don’t” along with the lack of clarity on which vegetables are the culprit, etc. I think Sarah has done a diservice to the holistic healthcare enthusiast.
Marina
I have to politely disagree. The effects of smoking are very well documented! Studies PROVE that smoking DOES cause cancer. The chemicals in cigarettes cause DNA affects and when removed by the good guys incorrect bases can be added on. When DNA mutates like this cancer cells can proliferate. It is also PROVEN that smoking causes oxidative stress and free radical damage, two risk factors for cancer. Sure you can get cancer even if you don’t smoke but the instances of mouth, esophageal and lung cancer are correlated with those who smoke.
Karen Vaughan
I agree with Jennifer that the idea of restricting dietary oxalates will reduce oxalate-related illnesses in sensitive people is unproven. The research is all over the place. It is like the idea that reducing dietary cholesterol reduces cholesterol levels, which we know to be wrong because the body manufactures most cholesterol. Maybe there is a small association, especially in extremes. The more interesting question is why people who are sensitive to oxalate-associated diseases create crystals instead of passing them out through the colon?
I suspect gut health is a major issue. When the probiotic lining of the gut wall is impaired, things get into the blood and lymph that shouldn’t. I am very curious about the aspergilis connection as a patient ended up with kidney stones and vulvodynia after exposure to mold. Mold can affect the gut.. And perhaps there is a nutrient deficiency which doesn’t permit the use of implicated minerals (say magnesium.)
Do remember people, only some people are sensitive to oxalates and the rest of you can eat them in peace. And while people with oxalate-associated diseases may also be able to eat them, I’ll understand if you want to play it safe. Plus if any of you thyroid-challenged want to steam your cruciferous veggies before putting them into your smoothies, you are allowed.
PattyLA
Oxalates are toxic to everyone. They are what makes rhubarb leaves poison. The issue is not if you are sensitive to them. The issue is if they are absorbed by your gut or stay in the gi track and are eliminated. Also they are not like a food allergy that you can just see if you react to the food or not. The body stores oxalate, like it stores heavy metals, and reactions come from the build up in the body. Few react clearly to consumption of a high oxalate food (although my daughter does but I don’t. We both need a Low Oxalate diet for health.)
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Yes, most green smoothie addicts will discover this too late unfortunately. It’s not like you can drink green smoothies and say “hey I feel great, I’m going to keep doing this”. You are headed for the cliff and you don’t even feel it or know it. The time to change your ways is before your body tissues are inundated with oxalate crystals.
mik
I’ve been doing green smoothies every day for 2½ years, and the Boutenko familly even longer. You just need to rotate your greens.
Karen Vaughan, L. Ac.
Patty, the dosage makes the poison. Oxygen is toxic to everyone in sufficient concentration. Oxalic acid may attack cancers and the body creates oxalates- probably far more important than dietary oxylates.
PattyLA
Huh? Oxalate hasn’t been shown to have any beneficial role in the body by anyone. It is a toxin that the body works to eliminate. It is a byproduct of some body processes, just like carbon dioxide is a byproduct that needs to then be eliminated.
Kelly
Wrong.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11135080
“Urinary oxalate excretion increased as dietary oxalate intake increased. With oxalate-containing diets, the mean contribution of dietary oxalate to urinary oxalate excretion ranged from 24.4 +/- 15.5% on the 10 mg/2500 kcal/day diet to 41.5 +/- 9.1% on the 250 mg/2500 kcal/day diet, much higher than previously estimated. “
Aimee Villella McBride via Facebook
Any suggestions for healthy veggie/fruit juice or smoothie alternatives?
Jesse
Aimee, I make one a lot with:
Kefir (I make)
Frozen banana
Avocado (makes it really creamy and you don’t taste the actual avocado much)
Carrot
Frozen mango
Coconut oil
Cream from the top of my raw milk
Some raw honey
My two year old and I love this!
marina
Sounds yummmy, Jesse! I make a similar one – though I use coconut milk which goes GREAT with frozen wild blueberries!
Lindsay
Thanks for the info Sarah. This is not the first time I’ve heard this, but for some reason I never listened before. My question – are spring greens included in this? I have a salad for lunch almost every day with some combo of spring greens, tomatoes, hard boiled eggs, chopped leftover meat and homemade oil/vinegar.
I also make coconut milk smoothies for my kids with raw spinach. I throw in some coconut oil, raw egg yolks and blueberries too. No more raw spinach for us though! I also use carrots and beets – are they okay raw in a smoothie?
Maria Szucsova via Facebook
That explains, why I feel not so well after eating raw spinach or kale. It feels much better though, when nicely cooked with lots of butter, but I don’t eat it too often anyway – just don’t feel like it and I guess this could be the thing about listening to your body
(I feel pretty sick after eating nuts as well, and they are being recommended so much as a part of the healthy diet…)
I would agree with moderation being the key – after your body “tells” you it is ok to eat it
Seana
Maria Szucsova try soaking the nuts and drying them on low in the oven or a dehydrator before eating them. It makes a huge difference in how well you can digest them.
Erica Iwamura via Facebook
I think I’ll agree with the others about moderation of the green smoothie.. don’t think the 2 that I drink a week will hurt me.
Primal Toad
You are probably right. 2 green smoothies a week is great! Especially if you add just a cup or 2 of greens. I think Sarah would agree. I think this article is more for the folks who drink them on a near daily basis.
JohnandMelanie Odom via Facebook
I will continue to drink my unhealthy green spinach shakes. Guess it’s killing me softly with all it’s glory and deliciousness.
Rhonda Balzano via Facebook
No need to opt out…steam high oxalate foods before juicing or eating just like you would with all cruciferous veggies when there is a concern with the thyroid. I read that in a previous post of yours…http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/think-raw-veggies-are-best-think-again/
Suzanne
Agreed!
Penniless Parenting
Wait- so what are you actually allowed to eat? You shouldn’t eat gluten or dairy, and better stay off all grains ideally. Don’t eat legumes or nuts or seeds because of the phytic acid. Stay away from things with fructose, which means all fruit, onions, garlic, etc… Stay away from sweet veggies like carrots and sweet potatoes. Stay away from green leafies and cruciferous veggies. Stay away from nightshades. And stay away from pork and seafood (because seafood is contaminated with heavy metals).
Other than chicken and beef and eggs, what are you actually allowed to eat?
Trisha
You apparently have not been reading this blog all that long.
Dairy is to be consumed raw. Not avoided. Grains are to be soaked. Not avoided. Nuts and legumes and seeds are to be soaked to get rid of the phytic acid. Not avoided.
The “diet” that is talked about and recommended by this site is a TRADITIONAL diet. That’s all. High quality foods prepared in a way to get the most from them.
Penniless Parenting
I actually have been reading this website for quite a while, and I follow a traditional foods diet. I probably should have clarified my question further.
As far as I knew, Paleo, primal, etc… are spin offs of traditional food diets, taking it just a bit more extreme. So, I read about fructose malabsorption that many people have on ThePrimalParent.com ( http://theprimalparent.com/2012/03/31/ibs-depression-skin-fructose-malabsorption/ ) and the list of foods to avoid:
Fruit juice Dried fruit Fruit concentrates Melons Grapes Cherries Peaches Pears Apples Apricots Guava Mango Pomegranate Whole corn Honey Agave Tomato paste Corn syrup and high fructose corn syrup Wine — dry wines might be ok in moderation Wheat Onions Garlic Leeks Coconut milk and meat Jerusalem artichoke Green beans Carrots — tolerance varies Asparagus Chicory root
On top of that- the phytic acid issue. Soaking and sprouting and fermenting only removes some of the phytic acid, not all. So thats a problem for any seeds nuts grains or legumes, including coconut. And for some sensitive people, any grains causes hystamine reactions, so they go off all grains. (My husband is off grains pretty much other than white rice because of this post. http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/pollen-is-not-the-problem/)
I am off gluten because I am very gluten sensitive.
While I would love a source of raw milk, I can’t get any where I live, and I know pasteurized dairy is bad for you. The only stuff even available is pasteurized antibiotic given and hormone filled milk unfortunately. On top of that being unhealthy for you, I am sensitive to all dairy other than butter, and my daughter, who I nurse, is sensitive to just the tiniest amount of dairy. So dairy is out (unless I find a source of raw milk, which I may or may not be sensitive to).
And unfortunately, I can’t afford wild salmon, only farm fish, and only CAFO chicken and meat…
So basically, that leaves me with pretty much nothing I can eat, that I can afford…
Penniless Parenting
I actually have been reading this website for quite a while, and I follow a traditional foods diet. I probably should have clarified my question further.
As far as I knew, Paleo, primal, etc… are spin offs of traditional food diets, taking it just a bit more extreme. So, I read about fructose malabsorption that many people have on ThePrimalParent.com (you’ll have to google The Primal Parent Fructose Malabsorbtion because if I put a link this post gets censored ) and the list of foods to avoid:
Fruit juice Dried fruit Fruit concentrates Melons Grapes Cherries Peaches Pears Apples Apricots Guava Mango Pomegranate Whole corn Honey Agave Tomato paste Corn syrup and high fructose corn syrup Wine — dry wines might be ok in moderation Wheat Onions Garlic Leeks Coconut milk and meat Jerusalem artichoke Green beans Carrots — tolerance varies Asparagus Chicory root
On top of that- the phytic acid issue. Soaking and sprouting and fermenting only removes some of the phytic acid, not all. So thats a problem for any seeds nuts grains or legumes, including coconut. And for some sensitive people, any grains causes hystamine reactions, so they go off all grains. (My husband is off grains pretty much other than white rice because of the post here- Pollen isn’t the problem.)
I am off gluten because I am very gluten sensitive.
While I would love a source of raw milk, I can’t get any where I live, and I know pasteurized dairy is bad for you. The only stuff even available is pasteurized antibiotic given and hormone filled milk unfortunately. On top of that being unhealthy for you, I am sensitive to all dairy other than butter, and my daughter, who I nurse, is sensitive to just the tiniest amount of dairy. So dairy is out (unless I find a source of raw milk, which I may or may not be sensitive to).
And unfortunately, I can’t afford wild salmon, only farm fish, and only CAFO chicken and meat…
So basically, that leaves me with pretty much nothing I can eat, that I can afford…
I know the GAPS diet would probably solve lots of these issues… But until I can afford to do that diet, what SHOULD I be eating? Seems almost everything is off limits…
Janet Rowan
Would love to hear an answer to what Penniless Parenting posted. I am in the same sort of position. I have been following this blog for a looong time but I can’t afford 95% of the foods that we are supposed to eat and I live in one of, if not the most expensive city in the US (NYC). The grass fed meat and raw milk/eggs/butter I have available to me (through a raw milk service that delivers from another state) is so extremely expensive. I would love to eat right but truth be told, many of us just can’t afford it or don’t have access to it.
pd
@Janet Rowan: If you can’t afford 95% of the suggested foods, spend your money on one food you would like. Try butter (it doesn’t need to be raw to get a lot of health benefits)…it just needs to be from pastured (grass fed) cows. I have found the Kerrygold brand (from Ireland) to be the least expensive grass fed butter. I also find it tastier than the organic grass fed butters I have tried. The taste sold me, grass fed butter tastes like butter should, not a pale flavorless chunk of fat like most butter. The Kerrygold is just under $6/lb around here and like the theme of this post…moderation. Unless you’re eating a pound of butter a day, it shouldn’t be cost prohibitive.
As far as grass fed meat or pastured chicken goes, we eat those sparingly. I don’t feel the need for lots of red meat and eat mostly homemade (cheap!) tempeh along with small amounts of wild fish and organic chicken. 4-6 ounces is plenty for me. YMMV
Michele
I have fructose Mal-absorption and when I first found out, I was extremely discouraged and felt like I couldn’t eat anything either. My journey with FM and TONS of my own research led me to the paleo/WAP diet (not “diet” meaning to lose weight) and this blog. There are many things to eat–you have to be motivated and creative to find things that work for you. It takes a lot of time, determination and effort. There is a wonderful support group for people with FM, gluten and dairy intolerance on Yahoo Groups (the Australia group is more active than US). It is also possible to afford better quality meats–there are tricks to getting cheaper prices, but like Sarah always says if you can only afford SPAM–then eat SPAM. I really want to encourage you that there are ways to get around all the things you mentioned in your post. You just CAN”T give up. I would love to help you, but am not sure how to exchange personal email addresses without sharing them publicly.
Penniless Parenting
you can email me at pennilessparenting@yahoo.com
Michele
My reply was meant for Penniless Parenting but got posted a little further down in the string of posts/replies.
marina
There is a way to prepare nuts ands seeds, by soaking them, to reduce phytic acid content.
You can ferment dairy to get best nutrition out of it.
Onions and garlic are very healthy – have high sulfur content for skin, hair and nails, and they also great for diabetics.
Cruciferous veggies you can steam or ferment, green leafy veggies you can steam as well.
Nightshades, if you don’t have problem with arthritis, you don’t have to avoid – they are nutritious foods.
Hormone free, pastured pork is fine. Seafood contamination is just a misunderstood issue.
So no, you don’t have to only have beef and eggs and chicken. There is a solution to every problem if you do your research.
Penniless Parenting
I definitely read on the weston price org’s website that people should stay away from nightshades ideally…
Jess
And don’t forget nuts are high in oxalates too.
(As are carrots, olives, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, many fruits, and a lot of other foods. In fact, I’m a little confused as to why (whether you agree oxalates are a problem or not) this article is so heavily demonising green drinks and ignoring all the other potential sources of high oxalates in the diet? It’s… strange.)
Jamez
Yeah , the article is ridiculous because most plant foods have decent amount of oxalates including wheat, rye, bran, fruits, nuts, seeds, chocolate, tea, coffee, etc, etc…
To be picking on greens is quite sad and really only focusing on one substance in a plant…what about all the other good aspects, are they outweighed? Just like phytic acid or nitrates or any other bad substance in a plant, this doesn’t mean to avoid it completely! Ah but the solution is to suckle a cow… brilliant just as nature intended us to suckle on bovines when even calves don’t do it after maturity!
I have tried most alternative diets and the only one that has worked for me long term is a combo of the alkaline diet and raw vegan diet. Mostly green veg, nuts, seeds, good oils, quinoa, buckwheat, low sugar fruits, not all raw, but as much as
possible.
The real issue with green smoothies is all the sugary fruit and crappy processed powders etc. that people flavour them with. Green juices with a bit of carrot or beet for flavouring are much better. Obviously don’t overdo the silver beets and spinach and you will be fine, as far as oxalate levels go. The other issue with smoothies is that you are essentially “cooking” and denaturing the cells of the plant as it spins around hundreds of times a second and breaks it down! A juice extractor is more akin to actually chewing your food and you will absorb much more nutrition that way.
Cheryl
Ha Ha so true ..there is nothing left to eat….and high animal protein diets are not good for you either they say!
Helen T
Penniless: I once crossreferenced the foods of all the healthdiets that say you shouldn’t eat such ‘n such: came up with NOTHING!!
Eventually I found a quote from someone: all foods are toxins……or leave an ‘ash’ of some sort in the system. Just choose your poison (sort of)…….
Tricia
Hi
Chicken is terrible for food poisoning. Beef is the source of mad cow disease. Eggs ~ salmonella!
The information in this item is very useful. We all need to take responsibility for our own health and need to check out the foods that we put into our bodies, but, from what I have read, nothing is always really safe to eat, drink or even breathe. 😉
By the way, I have suffered oxalate problems, resulting from antibiotic use, and it was horrendous.
My grandparents always said that moderation was the key and I’ve always believed in that.
I found this because I was contemplating making green smoothies. I’ll still do that, but I’ll check out oxalate content first ~ also goitrogen content.
Thanks.
Alyssa Pilat via Facebook
Do some more research on how the gut works ppl, she’s right.
Fran Shipp via Facebook
My son nd I love Green Goodness form Bolthouse farms.. he likes them so much he rarely leaves any for me. How moderate is moderate when enjoying them?
Kim Paider via Facebook
I thought this was supposed to be a “Refuge from Wellness Propaganda” ?
Amanda
Hum… this is interesting. I’m not a green smoothie lover, although I have put spinach in smoothies for me and the kids on occasion. I do have an Italian Tuscan Bean Soup on the menu tonight…. where kale is cooked into the soup. I thought this was an old traditional recipe.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Of course that is fine. You’re not eating large quantities of it on a daily basis which is where the problem arises.
Jennifer
Does this apply to the green powders (barley, etc.) as well?
Tynia
As with anything else, moderation is key. Leafy greens in a blender are no different than from a pot or salad bowl. If you eat too much of one thing and not enough of another you will suffer in one form or another. No one should dogmatically say that green smoothies are harmful. Eating nothing but one thing or another is where an argument can be made.
Jennifer Bacaro via Facebook
But they’re so tasty
I’m shocked….I always feel bad I don’t eat “enough” leafy greens so I guess I feel better on that front. Lol
LeAnn Pich via Facebook
I’m not sure that I believe the reasoning in this blog. I think that there is nothing wrong with a diet high in veggies. As with anything, if you have a health concern, you need to be more aware of how the foods you are eating affect you. Perhaps green smoothies are not good for everyone, but neither is a diet high in nutrient-poor food. Pick healthy every time.
Nancy Knowles via Facebook
leafy greens are important to health… seems part of this picture is missing… possibly the balance with foods that prohibit the crystal growth…
Bonnie Rose Shaw via Facebook
I’m very skeptical about this. Since eating a lot of green leafy vegetables (and following Dr. Joel Fuhrman’s “Eat to Live” diet), my husband’s high blood pressure and high cholesterol have been cured. This article really sounds like it came from the onion – “if you are going to eat vegetables, cook them thoroughly and put butter on them”????
Beth
It’s amazing to me that all these people never heard of Weston A. Price and the substantial research on the health benefits of butter! Stop living under a rock people and check out http://www.westonaprice.org/ ALL the info on a healthy diet are there! Catch up with the truth please! Save your family’s health now.
Jessica
I don’t trust one thing WAP says since I went through their information on breastfeeding and picked through how almost everything was wrong or misinformed just to work their agenda, what that agenda might be for giving out wrong information on breastfeeding? I’m not quite sure. But trusting them for health advice? I don’t think so.
Nicole
Then why are you reading this blog?
Craig Fear
FYI – WAP’s agenda is to support small scale, sustainable, local farms growing nutrient-dense food. Yeah, what a terrible organization.
Rebecca
Jessica, I agree with you that the WAP advice on breastfeeding is Total Crap. (And my LLL leader friend and WAP follower agreed). It does make me wary of other things they say….however, when I look into the research of what they say about most everything else, I do think they are fairly solid in most other things. Sadly, you just have to ignore the breastfeeding part…I would suggest writing them and suggesting some changes to the breastfeeding portion of their literature. I don’t know if it will help, but it’s worth a shot! (Maybe we can get Kellymom to write too!)
dani
What is wrong with their breastfeeding advice?
Gabriella
I’m curious, what is wrong with WAPF’s stance on breastfeeding?
Elainie
Agreed- I blindly followed WAP and was even a chapter leader in my former life lol- never again.
Ryan
What do you follow now? What seems to be wrong with WAP way of eating? Did you develop health issues while following the WAP diet? Please explain as I too are just starting the WAP diet journey.
Serena
Oh my goodness, I know! I nearly chucked Nourishing Traditions when I read the chapter on breastfeeding. I wondered WHY they would want to undermine the health of mother and baby and their breastfeeding relationship. I just fume when I think about it. I can only assume that either a) the authors had bad experiences with breastfeeding, or b) they are woefully ignorant on the subject, or both. I decided to keep the book as a reference as I do any other cookbook–use the recipes I want, ignore the ones I don’t. It definitely made me more cautious toward anything they say.
Holli
This diet has lots of criticism online from various sources (one such article can be found here: http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/fuhrman_dietary_myths.htm). There is also another recent rebuttal available from Kimberly Snyder. While some things appear to be sound, such as consuming unprocessed foods, other things appear to be amiss. I personally would require more research but for those of you high on the bandwagon, it might be a good idea to read some of the well-researched critiques before following/falling head over heels.
Roxanne
Oh please. I learned about Weston A Price 20 years ago, when I was in my teens and came across a copy of Nourishing Traditions at a Goodwill store. Twenty years of much nutritional research later, and I still think his nutritional “truths,” research, and advice is a bunch of bunk.
I have yet to come across one valid argument from a WAP supporter of why 70-year-old research from a Dentist olds any kind of scientific validity.
Linda
Ummm Roxanne…..Look closely around you . Look at the health institutes and cancer institutes and unhealthy people. Is this not enough of a valid argument that WAP just might be onto something wonderful>? He studied . He learned . He listened and shared. Just maybe there is a chance he is right? What else is working to make people have good health? Is anyone? What is a better alternative? Pills and drugs? Obesity? We are a very sick nation. But then that is what our government wants. A weak nation, one that cannot fight back. One that just follows like sheep , One that cannot or will not think for itself. Legal drug dealers abound. Do you have a better solution than WAP had? I didn’t think so .
Roxanne
The only thing our country’s high obesity and illness rates prove is that we are a nation that doesn’t eat enough fresh, whole food. We eat crap. The principles of the WAPF are not the cure for that. I follow a whole foods diet very similar to what Robyn Oppenshaw (The Green Smoothie Girl) teaches–mostly vegetarian, but not vegan. I eat a lot of fresh produce every day (close to 10-15 servings)—both raw and cooked, whole grains, beans, a lot of fish, moderate amounts of cheese (but otherwise no dairy), and very little other meats because I can’t afford grass-fed/pastured meats. My years of nutritional research tell me that diets high in animal foods are not healthy.
I also concur w/ Michael Pollen when it comes to food: Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants.
Elle
@bonnie rose shaw, I too am very skeptical of all this. Now do we have to measure every lil thing that we put in our mouths. There is not enough time in the day. Too many Greens ?!?!?! Confused?!?!?! I also read “Eat to live”. Great, Great book. Amazing healthly living. I changed the way I ate and never felt any better. Thank you Dr. Joel Furman!!
Kelly
Oh please, Joel Furhman? His advice is so out of touch — almost everything he recommends is high in anti-nutrients — and also very high in omega six fatty acids.
Good luck with that Elle!
Leah Lundberg via Facebook
Moderation yes, veggies bad for you, no! Others can be used in smoothies/juices as well, doesn’t have to be green: cucumbers, carrots, tomatoes, cilantro, ginger, beets…don’t let this discourage! Just know what you are juicing, benefits AND liabilities!
Kim Paider via Facebook
Telling people to opt-out entirely sounds a bit extreme (nearly as extreme as drinking 5 green smoothies a day), and maybe even irresponsible. How about just recommending moderation, if anything?
Amanda McCandliss via Facebook
There is so much to know! Ahh! lol
Watchmom3
Amanda, you said exactly what I think everytime I read one of Sarah’s articles! I really have so much to learn! Having said that, I must comment that when something comes up that people seem to either disagree or exhibit frustration with, then I think it good to remember that we are all on the same journey to LEARN and take that info and see how it affects YOU. No need to get upset or confused, just be aware and appreciate that no one has “Arrived” and has all knowledge….so, we can be happy to have some new info to sift through and pick what we can use! Just be prepared to make some changes everyday and make it fit. I personally like to know what is going on, even if I choose to do something different. I love to read the dialogue from everyone’s perspective and experiences! I also am grateful that Sarah is willing to say some things that make us LOOK and check into what we may have taken as solid info. No problem! My only experience with green smoothies is noticing that a friend who drinks them daily has lost 30 pounds and looks unwell. I am sad for her as she is a young mother and I believe that she is going to have some imminent health problems, just from looking at her. But, this time last year, she was just beginning to look at the SAD diet and realize that her family was eating poorly. I appreciate that she is looking for the truth. Thanks for all your input; it helps me so much!
Cana
Agreed with Watchmom3. Let’s keep an open mind about all this new info. I always care about my health. I followed doctor’s advice and read the latest health books on the low-fat diet, high fiber diet, juicing, low carb diet, zone diet, etc. Really, there is so much bad information out there. Too much and too confusing. Now we have to worry about Oxalate! All this is new to me. But I do appreciate everyone’s comments – pro or con. It’s about seeking the truth and sharing it with each other. I’m taking a deep breath before reading on!
Jewel Young via Facebook
WHAT??!! Well, i think the key here is moderation…as with EVERYTHING! My kids and i have green smoothies a couple times a week….we enjoy other types of smoothies as well. This article may be for someone who drinks several a day everyday….cause i firmly believe that loads of greens are excellent for the body.
Lisa Gale via Facebook
Amber – Check out her older post about how to prepare your vegetables the healthiest way! http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/think-raw-veggies-are-best-think-again/
Megan
Sarah, Do you know if the same warning applies if you juice the greens?
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Yes, same problem.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
When I get a veggie juice from the healthfood store, I always sub a low oxalate veggie for the high oxalate ones. Not all veggies are problematic consumed raw or juiced. The leafy green ones are the worst.
DA
I was wondering the same thing Megan. I juice carrots, kale, green apple and ginger nearly everyday. Should I be leaving out the kale? This article surprised me as well. Although, I’ve come to trust Sarah and her knowledge/research. So, I will have to consider and begin to look more closely at the high oxalate veggies I consume.
Michelle
Actually, out of all of those items you listed, the carrot is the highest in oxalate. Not as high as spinach, but still pretty high to be juicing on a daily basis. So I’d say skip the carrot and leave the kale in!
Sara
Wait….doesn’t the GAPS diet recommend carrot juice first thing in the morning? If carrots are so high in oxalates, why would she recommend them? I’m so confused. I also wonder if I was to lightly steam the greens, juice them and then add some coconut oil, if that would do the trick?
D.
Add some real, raw cream to your smoothie with the carrots (like the recipe for the carrot tonic in the Nourishing Traditions cookbook) and it will likely balance out some of the oxalates, although I’m just taking a WAG here. I could never drink a green smoothie every day (see me gag) but I love the idea of a once a week ice-cold smoothie during the hottest part of the summer – made with a small amount of frozen fruit, some carrots and a few greens. I got really burned out on smoothies when I was on Fat Flush several years ago, so now I usually consume kefir or yogurt in the morning instead (homemade, of course). Also, when I was on Fat Flush the author (Ann Louise Gittleman) was a big fan (can you say BIG) of whey protein. Sarah did a wonderful article a while ago on how powdered whey protein can be a contributor to the ailment neuropathy – which I now have. Don’t know and can’t say if the whey protein contributed, but for the amount I consumed over a period of 2-3 years, I’d say yeah, prolly a large contributor to the problem.
Elainie
Same problem eh? I guess that’s why alternative cancer clinics juice greens and get results lol- try that with your WAP diet. You need to really educate yourself (and I don’t mean WAP style nutrition) before you can make such outrageous and irresponsible claims.
Chris
Just when you think green smoothies are safe. Geez, what next?
Yana Staples via Facebook
to be honest, I am still sceptical about this…I don’t think one size fits all…but I am grateful that you shared your perspective. I think it’s important to always pay attention how ur body reacts and how it makes u feel. and for sure to check for oxalate problems w ur particular body….but at the end of the day, I believe there is no question that organic leafy greens are really good for you….just KNOW UR OWN BODY….what makes one thrive, could harm another…..but to say that” it’s bad for u” – I just don’t agree with this
margar
Really? your advice is to cook leafy greens thoroughly with lots of butter? Ok, so let’s just swing the pendulum over the most extreme side! Hurr durr.
Human beings are meant to be able to eat things in MODERATION (unless a specific problem like allergies or other sensitivities), so I’d say a moderate consumption level is maybe twice a week, lightly cooked or in a salad. WHY tell people that the BEST option (You honestly said “better yet”) is to thoroughly cook green veggies in lots of butter??? So- remove ANY nutrition whatsoever and ADD more fat? My eyes are rolling so hard I have a headache now.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Consuming cooked vegetables with fat is a documented way to ensure absorption of the minerals present. Butter is much better than any butter substitutes (many articles on this blog about this). Yes, you lose some minerals by cooking but reducing the oxalates is a good idea. If you wish to consume your leafy greens raw, that is fine, just do it only occasionally and make sure you have a good quality extra virgin olive oil salad dressing on top to help absorb the minerals
Holly
Butter is much better than any butter substitutes? So butter is better than coconut oil? I beg to differ. I don’t necessarily think one is better than the other…but it greatly depends on the source of the butter and how it has been processed. Coconut oil and macadamia nut oil are excellent butter substitutes.
I, too, am skeptical of this article. Not that I don’t think oxalate damage is a real issue. But I find it very hard to agree that we should only eat raw salads once or twice a week. I’d like to hear some expert opinion on this topic…would be great to get Dr. Mercola’s feedback.
Alexis
Sarah doesnt mean butter is better than coconut oil…when she says “butter substitutes” she means margerine and such…correct Sarah? I think this article makes total sense…we dont have all the enzymes to digest plants like herbivores do. And yes…to the person up above who said they were getting a headache from rolling thier eyes so hard I believe…good fat, and lots of it is great for you! The right nutrients are good for you but if they’re not prepared right then your body wont absorb them and/or it will even cause harm to eat them so just prepare them correctly…thats all shes saying people.
Suzanne
Butter substitutes!?! I should hope that’s not what Sarah meant! Margarine is one of the worst things to ingest. It creates free radicals in the body and promotes heart disease..
PattyLA
Lettuce is low oxalate. Spinach is extremely, extremely high oxalate, even when cooked. Eat all the lettuce you want. Skip the spinach.
Elainie
This article is another example of why I won’t ever be duped again by WAP followers.People aren’t curing cancer on WAP high meat and fat diets. They are healing cancer and other serious disease on raw vegan diets and Victoria Boutenko has helped people heal via green smoothies. WAP just wants everyone to eat high fat and high meat diets and they are so righteous that their way is the only true way.
Food Renegade
Just because you can cure cancer on a raw diet DOESN’T mean you’re causing cancer on a non-raw diet.
Here’s the deal. The high-raw, high-veggie & fruit diet is GREAT for cancer because it’s been proven to help detox the body. That’s a really good thing, and anyone who needs a detox or a cleanse for health-related issues should definitely consider a high-raw, high-veggie & fruit diet.
But most of us don’t need a specific detox diet. Most of us need to cure our nutrient deficiencies. And BOY do we have them. Most of us are lacking in Vitamin D, Vitamin A, Vitamin K-2, Vitamin B-12, choline, magnesium, and selenium. It turns out that traditional foods, WAPF diet is bursting with these missing nutrients. So, for those of us who are nutrient-starved, turning to a WAPF diet is paramount.
The GAPS diet (which is WAPF compatible) is a healing diet and promotes juicing. But again, it’s meant to be a TEMPORARY, healing diet. Once healed, the GAPS diet includes instructions for transitioning to a more WAPF/traditional foods based diet to help maintain long-term health.
So, while the high-raw diet is fantastic for detox and healing, the WAPF diet is great for maintaining that health once it’s been returned. I’d suggest you probably wouldn’t even need a special high-raw, detox diet if you’d been eating a WAPF-type diet for your entire life. But the fact remains, most of us haven’t been eating that way since we were in our mother’s wombs, so we have an uphill battle and may find that a detoxing, cleansing diet is necessary to begin our healing journeys.
Carolyn
She meant butter substitutes like I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter etc. The spreads. Coconut and macadamia are oils, not butter subsitutes.
George
>>>”Consuming cooked vegetables with fat is a documented way to ensure absorption of the minerals present.”
That is incorrect. Consuming cooked vegetables with fat will help facilitate absorption of fat soluble vitamins and nutrients.
Can you site the documentation you are referring to? I searched Pubmed and found the opposite.
Fatty meals will at best have a neutral effect. One possible beneficial mechanism may be Vit D upregulating calcium uptake. But I see a lot of parroting of misinformation such as MCTs will increase magnesium absorption when studies I’ve seen have shown the effect to be neutral.
Lisa
if I drink a green smoothie lets say 3-5 times a week and i add 4 cups of spinach is that bad? I HATE vegetables and this is the only way I get them down. I am 4 months pregnant and I am SOOO worried I’ll gain too much weight. I was already about 40 pounds over weight when I fell pregnant. (ok many people would argue that I was only about 25 pounds overweight, but I think I’m about 40 pounds over weight). I love food, I limit junk food (as in take aways to once a week) and thought that if I added a green smoothie with 3 fruit, and 4 cups spinach or lettuce I could manage my weight gain. I of course also try to eat as normal or healthy as possible during the day. Should I stop the green smoothies? I don’t understand? one website says it’s so good for you, another says it isn’t. I add yoghurt and seeds to mine…not that THAT will bring down the oxilate levels, but I try to get an all round well balanced diet. I eat no animal fats. I eat real butter but a reduced fat version of it..no added preservatives, trans fats or salts or sugars. I don’t eat meats that has visible fats, I eat whole grain breads and pastas and cereals. But I have a weakness for certain foods ESPECIALLY since falling pregnant. I am hungry all the time and found that green smoothies curbs at least SOME cravings.
I don’t want to harm my baby but I am at my wits end..
Esther
I’m also four months pregnant and have been following the type of diet/lifestyle Sarah talks about, outlined more at westonaprice.org. I’ve only gained 5 pounds so far in my pregnancy, and perhaps could have gained more, but I know that eating animal fats such as grass-fed butter with your vegetables truly does help absorb all the fat-soluble vitamins and does not make you gain too much weight. If a smoothie is the only way you can eat vegetables, I would continue drinking them. Use plenty of yogurt or kefir to make sure you’re getting probiotics. Smoothies are not a traditional food, but they are one way for us with more modern tastebuds to get enough vegetables.
TinaD
Animal fats are good for you, provided they are from healthy organic and/or pastured animals. There is a lot of research on this. Your body needs them, and they won’t cause weight gain; refined carbs, cereals, pastas, and excess natural sugars will.
Dave Kraus
There is a reason you hate vegetables. Maybe it’s a valid one.
Megan
You’re obviously not from this blog-o-sphere.
Check out http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/untold-story-of-butter/
Sabrina
100% Agree Margar! My jaw is on the floor after reading this article…. seriously, concerning the SAD (standard american diet) that the majority of americans are eating, you’re picking on Green smoothies? One thing in particular you never mention in your article is volumes – or at least the ranges of safe and unsafe amount of leafy greens you consider unsafe – honestly, there are alot more people NOT getting enough leafy greens there are eating way too many and enough to cause this type of health issue. Also you don’t mention the practice of rotating your leafy greens to avoid overcomsumption of oxalic acid and also for getting the max amount of vitamins and nutrients in your diet, which by the way, leafy greens are contain the highest amount of nutrients of any other foods! I still can’t believe someone claiming to practice “healthy living” actually wrote an article like this….. do your OWN research, people!
Steve
Agree with Sabrina. Not sure which side of the fence this author stands. Based upon the title, it seems to be whichever side is the more sensational. Advising people to only eat on occasion leafy green vegetables–juiced or otherwise–is just sad. Of all the other things in the Great American Diet to pick on, I can’t believe they’ve stooped to this AND without more thorough research, such as the effect on insulin of those fruits to “soften” the taste, of which you only mention in passing. Perhaps then you might’ve made some valid point, but as it is, this article smells like bunk.
Alexis
UUUUUGGGGGHHHH!!!! Obviously the majority of people following this blog already know to a certain extent what is and is not healthy. Sarah doesnt have to tell you to not eat processed foods and such because you should already know that. I think shes assuming that everyone already knows the basics and is taking it one step further to inform us of the possible dangers in doing raw smoothies. I dont see how this doesnt make sense.
Nicole, The Non-Toxic Nurse
Agreed! She didn’t tell anyone to stop eating greens altogether, she simply said to be mindful of oxalates and made a valid point about the possible health implications of swigging down bushels of high-oxalate greens in liquid form. Ask anyone who has had a kidney stone or other oxalate-related issue if they wish they had known about oxalates in food. Suggesting that Sarah should not discuss oxalates because swigging oxalate smoothies is better than the SAD is a bit ridiculous to me given that kidney stone pain is so severe that they teach us in nursing school to go straight for the Demerol for such patients . . . never mind the other health risks associated with oxalates.
margaritak
Ran across this post searching for pros and cons to the Green Smoothie Diet. As a casual, infrequent visitor to this blog, the sensational headline and clearly hyperbolic language made me read the article with a skeptical eye. I am blown away that anyone claiming to be interested in nutrition would seriously try to dissuade people from eating green, leafy vegetables. Even in the recommended “doses” I have read in various forums and blogs, the actual green leafy vegetable consumption is 2 cups, cups not “bushels”, of a combination of the following vegetables: romaine lettuce, swiss chard, bok choy, spinach, kale, dandelion greens, carrot greens and arugula per day. It would take a lot of green smoothies, not the recommended 16-32 ounces per day, to create an oxalate disorder in the 80% of the population the article states is not already suffering from one. That 80% figure comes from the article, where it’s stated that 1 in 5 people suffer from oxalate disorders. I could not find any research online to substantiate that quote.
Cheryl
Thank you!!
Sofia
I don’t understand where these people are coming from. This is a WAP friendly site. That’s Weston A. Price. I don’t get how so many mainstream, conventionally thinking people end up here. If you read up a little on WAP, then you will bypass the massive amounts of silly questions about where she is coming from, move at least 10 steps closer to knowing some real truths about health, and then we can talk. Until then, consider it info and move on or delve further and really learn something different and then ask some intelligent questions.
Sarah, I don’t know how you keep you’re head about you with so many ignorant people stopping by. Good on you!
Sofia
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
I don’t take it personally. I realize these folks just need to eat a lot of BUTTER and they would get a whole lot nicer real fast. LOL
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
I also show many of the mean comments to my kids and say to them “do you think I care what these people say? Absolutely not!” It’s a great lesson to show them that what other people think of you is completely meaningless and to do your thing regardless. Most people never learn that in their whole lives. I would love for my kids to learn it young.
Helen T
But, but……..I get mean comments from my own family and friends when I bring stuff like this up! They are all of the mindset that, “HOW WOULD YOU KNOW BETTER THAN DOCTORS? Or, you’re learning this on the internet? Ha!”
Sue
Hear, Hear!! or is it here, here?
Carrie
Wow, aren’t you all so welcoming to newcomers. Guess you don’t need or want more visitors to your blog.
There is so much misinformation in regards to “healthy” eating, you may want to find a kind, welcoming way to educate people if you want their business. Then again…maybe you don’t.
Cindy
LOL! Thank you for that – you are really funny 😀
Cindy
margar
Alnea
Clearly you haven’t been indoctrinated into the secret mysteries of animal fat and its importance in the human diet. You might be shocked to learn that lard is actually really good for you. Go on, gasp.
Bernice Blauvelt Henry via Facebook
Are you a nutritionist?
Elizabeth
Yes, she is.
Brenda
Is she a licensed nutritionist? Her professional credentials don’t seem to indicate that…
Ursula
Licensed nutritionists in the USA now have to agree and teach the abysmal food pyramid or lose their license…. I wouldn’t trust them for anything!
You’re just like the people who don’t believe any health info unless it has been printed and approved of by science/medical journals….. who have been shown to be printing a ton fraudulent information.
Tina
And yet here you are listening to the holy teachings of a random blogger on the internet more than any scientific journal or gastroenterologist. You’re the least gullible of them all, right?
…Yep.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama
Why does that matter? There are plenty of nutritionists who advocate a low-fat diet filled with processed “healthy” snacks, vegetable oils, and artificial sweeteners. I’d rather take advice from someone who’s done extensive self-study than someone with a degree who parrots the same junk that got us into this health crisis….
Emily
@ Kate, very well said. I’m a nutrition major and find it extremely frustrating that we are taught to encourage a low fat diet.
The main argument from people such as the Green Smoothie Girl is that Americans with a typical SAD diet can only benefit from more veggies. However, people following a traditional diet, who are more likely to read this blog, don’t fit into that category.
This article isn’t going to cause people to quit eating healthy greens completely, but bring awareness to a health issue that people can research on their own and determine what is best for them.
I can understand the negative attention Sarah is getting for promoting this, but it’s mainly from raw foodists and green smoothie drinkers. If you are a regular to this blog, you probably aren’t eating completely raw, so the argument isn’t very acceptable to me. If you’re a raw foodist, why read a blog based on the Weston Price Diet? And why get mad about it?
Deborah Roberts
I agree……..low fat diet is harmful to our health and every time I have tried to be a big green veggie juice and lots of raw greens……I start to have horrible candida and severe digestive issues…..
Center
Please fix that sentence so that I can understand what you’re trying to say.
Deborah Tukua
Interesting article. I’ve been drinking a tablespoon of powdered alfalfa, barley and carrot powder in spring water, every morning for years. Don’t believe these contain oxalates. Any comments on my ABC drink?
Mary
Watch your alfalfa, it’s now been ok’d to be grown GM — of course without labeling.
Wysteria Jackson via Facebook
I was raw vegan for a spell, I drank a lot of green smoothies and my teeth were in rotten shape. That being said, a lot of people regained what they considered health by green smoothies. There are even books about it. I can’t get into your article but look forward to reading.
Mary
What constitues a ‘High’ Oxalate diet? What kind of volume? I have a smoothie most weekday mornings, the main reason being to get some kefir into me. I use 1 cup of kefir, then add some frozen fruit and often a small handful of spinach or lettuce. I’ve tried kale but find it too strong. The volume of green in the smoothie is small. Should I be concerned?
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
If it is small that is good … I still wouldn’t do it everyday though particularly since most people have candida issues nowadays whether or not they recognize it.
SFM
In my experience most people are quite unaware of oxalate issues . . . I stumbled across it with on of my children and some of his symptoms. There is a very good yahoo group devoted to oxalate problems.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Yes, people don’t get how serious the oxalate issue is particularly since so many are candida challenged already. They just think the more veggies the better and so why not blend huge amounts into a drink and chug it down. Bad idea!
Aimee Ridgway
Someone mentioned almonds being high on the oxalate list? Oh but I love eating almonds every day! I make sure I soak them, am I putting myself at the same risk as people who drink green smoothies?
PattyLA
In a word yes. All nuts but especially almonds are high in oxalates. 1 oz of almonds has 115 mg oxalate. A low oxalate diet allows for 40-60 mg of total oxalate a day (all veggies contain some amount of oxalate.)
Mary
So how do you get rid of the candida??
Cheri
So now eating green leafy vegetables is bad for us, too? Good Lord help us all.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Of course not! Just don’t eat them raw in green smoothies on a frequent basis as people are practicing today. The end of the article describes how to eat them safely.
Mary
But you just said cooking them doesn’t help either.
I like my green smoothies also.
So what are we supposed to eat since green veggies and salads aren’t good for us anymore.
Mandi
Hear hear! What on earth are we supposed to eat? Every time I turn on the computer there is yet another “dangerous” food that I absolutely must not eat or I’ll suffer the pains of a miserable unhealthy life. I’ve cut out everything I actually like, and am eating a balance of good foods that come from the earth. Now I’m supposed to eat leafy greens “on occasion?” Please.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
Eat veggies as traditional cultures ate them – cooked in butter or fermented – NOT as part of a health fad where large amounts of raw veggies are blended up in a drink. That’s what you do.
Amanda
Hmm. There is a recipe for fermented spinach on a very popular traditional foods website that I wanted to try. Would this be an example of a good way to safely eat spinach? Especially since fermented foods are used more as a condiment? I’m still learning. Thanks!
Mary
If “oxalates are extremely stable” , how does fermenting change them if cooking doesn’t? I know that fermenting gets rid of sugars in the food and improves the nutritional value, but never heard of them affecting oxalates.
Also, if only 20% of people are sensitve to oxalates, how are we to know? When you tell everyone to watch their intake, how does this justify the 20%?
Other people on different diets, such as Body Ecology and Dr. Mercola ( and GAPS, I think) state to get rid of almost all fruit because of the fructose being bad and acidic to our bodies. I like the Body Ecology Diet – this diet is what helped me finish curing my son’s autism and cured his gut (in a month). Donna Gates promoted lots of greens and fermenting. I also like W. A. Price because I like milk and eggs!
Brandon
I love green smoothies, and don’t think I could give up their refreshing sweet taste. They do make me feel much better. I’ve only been consuming them for about four years now, and haven’t noticed a problem as of yet, even though being fully aware of the oxalate levels. Sometimes I will use romaine lettuce in place of spinach or chard, for lower oxalate levels.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
The problem with oxalate toxicity is that you can’t necessarily feel the damage they are causing .. case in point – oxalate shards lodged in your heart. Best to stop this habit and if you love them, enjoy them only occasionally as with raw spinach salads.
Vickie Innes
stop telling people this. you are wrong
Cecy
I Agree with Vickie, Green smoothies is been making a BIG different in our life.
Samuel simmons
Wow! There is alot to be said for sensationalism. Green Smoothies with spinach and kale are actually not just helping people to manage the waste in their bodies more affectly but also regulating sugar levels and improving stress related issuses. Of course any food consumed in access can be dangerous but the audience that would qualify far out numbers those whose lives are literally being saved be incorporating green smoothies. I am the owner of a succesfull fintess consulting firm in Philadelphia and I am also practicing raw foodist. Dr. Arscilla in NJ first introduced me to green smoothies several years ago. He has a center where people have been delivered from cancer diabetes etc.This is an eyecathing headline but really. Are you trying to help people or what.
PattyLA
I wish she was wrong but I have had kidney stones and vulvar vestibulitis. Going on a low oxalate diet changed all of that for me. I still enjoy arugula, mustard greens and other low oxalate greens, just no more spinach, almonds and other high oxalate foods for me.
jenn
I only partially agree. I had a bad case of Candida and saw 17 doctors with symptoms that didn’t make sense to any of them! The doctor threatened me with the removal of my gall stones and even said I was going to need a new liver. Finally with a special nutritionist…. I ate nothing but veggies, low sugar fruits and green shakes, and protein rich beans and home raised chicken. I got checked a year later and guess what….. no surgery. No stones. Perfect liver. It’s been 15 years since I’ve felt this good. And what about the GAPS diet? My friend is cancer free!! CANCER FREE!! She is only 35 and had the body of a 70 year old because of all the problems she had. NOT any more! I think more research should go into this. In the end.. everybody is different… Everyone’s life style is different…. and every body is used to processing different foods. I think people need more veggies in their life.
juliet
Vickie,
If it’s “wrong” it would be helpful if you state why and show some evidence to support your conclusion. That would contribute greatly to the discussion. Simply saying something is “wrong” doesn’t help any of us.
Terrie Schultz
I agree Vickie.
http://blog.greensmoothiegirl.com/2008/09/18/what-about-oxalates-in-spinach/http://greensmoothiegirl.com/articles/panic-are-cruciferous-vegetables%E2%80%99-goitrogens-killing-my-thyroid/
Cathy S
If you read the article she references, you will understand that for some people this is a huge deal. For others it may only a big deal when they eat a lot of really high oxalate food like spinach. If you are referring to the oxalate shards lodged in your heart, this does actually happen, if kidney stones progress and kidneys shut down. http://www.ohf.org/about_disease.html
If your point is that you may have some warning signs before things like shards in your heart, you are probably correct, but not before you have other serious health problems such as kidney stones, fibromyalgia, or vulvodynia. It’s just something to be aware of when you are eating more greens than you would feel comfortable eating under a natural circumstance, that you may be causing inadvertent problems down the road.
Brandon
I do see a cardiologist once a month, and there is nothing showing up. I will ask her the next time to look into the oxalate shards.
Linda
So…. I do not like these foods and don’t feel good on the ones you mentioned . All along I thought I should be eating these things and felt so out of the loop because I am not. I just need to really listen to my own body because it sure does keep me strong and on the right path for IT ! I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about forcing these green things into my body anymore! I love what Sarah does for humankind and now also the animals in our lives . Thank you again, Sarah!
Deedee
That’s just an excuse you age yourself not to eat greens. I don’t like spinach or raw kale, but in a smoothie full of yummy fruits, I have them everyday. Everybody is certainly different, and you don’t have to force yourself to eat anything, that’s not a happy life. Find other things that give you the same nutrients and eat them. Don’t be stuck on eating things you hate, that’s a horrible way of life. And, this article is not backed by credible information. I research everything to make sure what I put in my body does better, not worse. Having chronic pain is a horrible way of life, but with a proper diet, wonderful family and friends, and exercise, is the way to happiness.
Elizabeth Gilhuly via Facebook
This is one of the few areas I will agree to the “moderation” theory. Most things this doesn’t apply to but here I will agree not to overdo it. I’ve heard that kale is more nutritious cooked.
Amber D’Ann Picota via Facebook
so green veggies are bad for you??? i’m more than a little puzzled here.
PattyLA
No but eating high oxalate veggies is. Arugula, mustard greens and lettuce are low oxalate. Spinach, chard and beet greens are high. It is about picking the right ones and not overdoing it. Spinach is only in season for a short time. Only eat it when in season if at all.
Clancy Harrison MS, RD, LDN
Don’t forget Kale is VERY low in Oxalates too.
Justine Raphael
But remember that kale is high in goitrogens. I would never, ever eat crucifers raw now that I know I have thyroid issues. Should have avoided them all along, soy too. Save the raw veggies for salads and ferments, is my appoach.
Beth
Interestingly, oxalate in kale depends on the variety of kale (dinosaur/lacinato is low but the others are not, like the curly kind). The links provided by Susan Owens and PattyLA provide more in-depth lists and info about this. These sources also talk about the fact that fermenting and soaking do little to reduce oxalates.
Kristan Holbert via Facebook
So should we also avoid eating these foods everyday in our diet? If we consume 1-2 servings a day total of these greens in a smoothie or in a salad, are we harming ourselves?
PattyLA
Yes avoid eating them daily. For some you need to avoid them for life. At the very least only eat when they are locally in season and only in moderation then. I gave myself a kidney stone after just one month of eating spinach in my scrambled eggs every morning. No where near as much as you can get in a spinach salad or a green smoothie or juice.
Cana
how do you get rid of kidney stones? just wondering.
The Vitamin Fox
There are many effective ways to rid yourself of stones in the kidneys. As a preventative, some of the same things that prevent gallstones are very effective, i.e., a shotglass full of unfiltered apple cider vinegar and extra-virgin olive oil every morning before food; a daily dose of an ionic magnesium product (make sure that it’s ionic, i.e. reacts electrically with water). For treating kidney stones already formed, the best thing I’ve come across is a prescription supplement called “Stone Formula” by Plum Flower brand. It’s used in China’s largest hospitals and boasts a 95-97% efficacy rate at dissolving kidney stones. It’s expensive (about $43 for a weeks supply, although a week or two or three is usually all you need to get rid of the stones) and you have to find a licensed health practitioner to buy it from (usually an acupuncturist or chiropractor), but it’s worth it if you like to avoid the drug/surgery hamster-wheel of the modern medical industry as much as I do.
k.
I feel like you can’t give yourself a kidney stone from adding a small amount of spinach to eggs. This whole blog seems ridiculous.
Marie Hall
Hi K, I’ve been drinking a green smoothie every morning for about a year and a half. I just loved it. Last month I had a horrible kidney stone attack, I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It’s a month now and it’s still there. and have to have a proceedure to remove it. The first thing my doctor said was….no more spinach!!!
Diane Welch via Facebook
I’m interested to see the discussion on this!
Amanda McCandliss via Facebook
Are lettuces to be eaten in moderation too? Or just dark leafy greens?
PattyLA
Lettuce is usually low oxalate. So are turnip greens, mustard greens and arugula.
Dan
Glad to hear turnip and mustard are low oxulate then! My green smoothie consists of 1 cup shredded kale, 1 cup turnip or musdtard greens 5 large radishes, 1 cup of celery, 4 oz low salt v8, 1/2 cp cucumber or green squash, 1/4 tsp sea salt, 1/2 lemon, 1/2 tsp dried hot peppers, 1/2 serving of whey protein! With this smoothie I sometimes eat 1 tbs of almond butter on 2 no salt saltines!.
Cathy S
Lettuce contains a moderate amount of Oxalic Acid (1/3 or less the amount of spinach), but not low. Kale is low. Here are two differing sources for the amounts of Oxalic Acid in vegetables. http://www.litholink.com/gateway.aspx?page=OxalateDiet & http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Other/oxalic.html
Kateri Hunter via Facebook
Wow. I was being pushed into this even. Sigh.
Cana
My sister became a juicer after watching “Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead” DVD. Her TSH is higher than 6 months ago. She also believes that the China Study is based on science. I stopped my infrequent juicing and now eat my veggies cooked in butter. I’m still tired (I have Hashimoto’s) even though I followed NT and GAPS diets. Check out http://dogtorj.com. Avoid gluten, corn, soy and milk casien as they wreck havoc on your guts. The fact that almost all of corn and soy are genetically modified probably has a detrimental effect on our guts too. CA will have a proposition to label all genetically engineered food this Nov. We need to vote YES! Voting YES will probably mean the rest of the country will get GMOs labeled. Spread the word.
Connie Henrie via Facebook
Very interesting, another reminder of Moderation in all things.
Diana
like
Lucia
amen
Brittany Blankenship via Facebook
oh wow!
Shellie
And here I thought I was suffering through the taste to do something good for myself! Thankfully I dislike them enough that I never drank them a lot. Yeay, no more green smoothies
Erica
Sarah,
I completely agree with everything you said, it is imperative be people be aware of it!
People to know especially if they suffer from (or if the first two things run in their family) thyroid problems, kidney problems, chronic fatigue, candida or fungal problems. Being 70 pounds overweight I came across the green smoothie diet and dove head first 100% into it 2 years ago. NEVER lost a pound only became increasing exhausted and fatigued but I continued for 4 months with green smoothies for 2-3 meals a day.. I made sure to cut the sugar from fruit by only putting in 1 piece of fruit and bulking up on broccoli, spinach, kale or dandelion greens. My fatigue exhaustion and irritability became extreme. My hair and nails suffered as well by becoming thin and brittle. I stopped doing the green smoothies. A couple of months later as I researched I came across NT and Gaps diets and slowly started implementing these foods. I also came across an article explaining OXALATES and GOITROGENS, it also listed foods that should NEVER be EATEN RAW! Broccoli, kale, spinach, chard and mustard greens. *All things in moderation, do as you think best for your body but be fully aware.*
Beth
I have low thyroid issues, fibromyalgia and probably a few other surprise ailments lurking somewhere. 😉 The only vegetables I eat raw are carrots. I occasionally have salads made with lettuce. I cook every other vegetable that I eat. I eat my cooked veggies with plenty of butter (because Nourishing Traditions says that it’s very beneficial) or cheese.
We drank green smoothies and my kids didn’t like them. Green smoothies made them hyper and they made me feel light-headed and sometimes nauseated. And the greens generally have high oxalates and goitogrens in them. Yuck!
Jaci
Are you suggesting that you only ( or mostly) ate green smoothies for several months? That is not healthy in anybody’s book. That diet is not balanced. No wonder you were irritable and had other problems. But you mentioned that you drank 3 green smoothies per day and yet you lost no weight??? hmmm that doesn’t ring true. What other foods were you eating? This article is bogus. There is nothing wrong with green smoothies. They are very good for you as part of a balanced diet. I am currently eating the 80-10-10 way and it is amazing. I eat as much as I want (mostly fruits) and some fats and proteins from things like green smoothies, raw veggies, nuts, and seeds. I am not super strict either. Every few days I eat something else that I want such as a peanut butter sandwich with wheat bread or a big glass of Soy milk chai. I don’t think that I will strictly eat this way forever but this will forever change the way that I eat. And it is perfectly healthy to eat greens raw. This is just silly.
Gary
Your symptoms made perfect sense once you said “I made sure to cut the sugar from fruit by only putting in 1 piece of fruit”.
You probably didn’t get enough calories. chronic fatigue will happen quick.
candida or fungal problems happen when you eat too much fat. And I’m making an educated guess that you ‘binged’ on nuts, maybe dairy or even junk food.
kidney problems can happen with detoxing.
Lettuce is low Oxalate. But make sure you get 2000 calories a day (fruit and grain). The body won’t drop weight if it thinks it’s starving.
Brad
You didnt eat fruit so your hair and nails got brittle. You would have lost weight if you just ate more fruit and went to the gym.
Deedee
It sounds like your body was suffering from malnutrition. Just drinking 3 green smoothies a day is not the way to eat healthy and lose weight. I make my daily green smoothie with protein powder (vegan) fruits, spinach, and water. I eat greek yogurt for breakfast with some fruit preserves (no sugary preserves, just all fruit preserves) and almonds. For lunch I have a green smoothie, with 2 cups Fruit, 1-2 cups spinach or kale, vegan protein powder, and water. I snack on cheese sticks and fruit. Dinner is some lean protein, veggies, and maybe sweet potatoes. Then I reward myself with a serving of low fat, no sugar added ice cream that i make at home. In the first 3 days, i lost 3 pounds and have insane energy, even though I suffer from 24/7 headaches and chronic recurring meningitis. Everything in moderation!
Paul
Erica,
Are you sure it was the greens causing the problems and not your major source of calories. If you only had 1 piece of fruit in each smoothie and you didn’t lose any weight obviously your calories were comig from fat or alcohol. So after your uninformed, irresponsible, and foolish, putting it mildly, attempt to piece together a health regime you come on here and blame the greens. Other people reading this should do their own research and not believe the uninformed and ignorant.
kaley
This was me 5 years ago!!! green smoothies gave me terrible kidney stones. That was one of the first things my doctor told me to stop eating. Then I started weston a price and healed my gut. Thanks so much for the post!!! People need to hear the other side of the story.
Michelle
Shellie – Substituting lower-oxalate greens may be a much better option than giving up on them altogether. For example, romaine lettuce is a much lower oxalate green than spinach, as well as being far milder in taste. As Sarah herself says, enjoy your greens, but in moderation (she mentions as salads, for example). So if green smoothies aren’t to your liking, by all means, skip ’em. Just don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Terrie Schultz
There is no basis to this blog. Where are the references to support this information:
You may be interested in this: http://blog.greensmoothiegirl.com/2012/06/01/can-green-smoothies-devastate-your-health/
Laryssa @Heaven In The Home
What about Spirulina or Chlorella?
Monica
I’m interested to know about spirulina too. The multivitamin I take daily is loaded with it.
Martha
Spirulina and chlorella ate fantastic greens with many benefits. Don’t skip them.
David
Likely the real problem there is not any specific ingredient, but the multivitamin in general. Science is generally pointing away from multivitamins and toward specific supplements for your specific vitamin shortfalls. Generally, they’re completely unnecessary.
Michelle
Spirulina and chlorella have both tested as being very low in oxalate. As with anything, unbridled consumption probably isn’t wise, but adding a spoonful to your smoothie is certainly a better choice than a handful spinach, at least in terms of oxalate.
Beth
Here is a tip for interested readers seeing this post for the first time. If you’d like to avoid sifting through the hundreds of comments and learn more about the expanding knowledge concerning oxalates, I suggest going to the various comments made by PattyLA and Susan Owens and the links they provided (in addition to Sarah’s source article, cited above).
Heidi @ Low Oxalate Info
You may also want to read Michelle’s thoughtful responses and her response article on her blog about the science behind oxalate consumption. I also write a blog for people on the low oxalate diet, and I can assure readers here that oxalate problems are much more common and more severe than the medical community realizes or would have your believe. However, not every one needs to avoid oxalate in the diet. Just use common sense.
I would encourage everyone who reads this article to learn about the MANY oxalate-related symptoms including genital pain, rectal pain, fibromyalgia, autism, burning mouth syndrome, chronic fatigue, bladder pain, thryroid disease, irritable bowel syndrome and “brain fog” to name a few. If you have any of these conditions, stop the green smoothies or at least chose low oxalate greens like turnip greens, mustard greens and dino kale. If you do not have any of these oxalate-related symptoms, at least you will know what might be the cause if you begin to have problems later.
I don’t believe everyone needs to stop green smoothies. But I do agree people should cut back on the high oxalate greens and use more medium or low oxalate greens instead and in more moderate amounts. I personally prefer to eat my low oxalate greens southern style with a lot of bacon fat and a little low oxalate tabasco sauce, but to each his own.
I hope my blog helps someone who really needs oxalate information. The low oxalate diet has been the single most important step I’ve taken to improve my health and it could be yours also.
Heidi
Get Healthy
The one thing not mentioned here is…. the majority of people who have issues with high oxalates – ALSO have a leaky gut. (Good explanation about what is a leaky gut: http://paleoparents.com/featured/guest-post-by-the-paleo-mom-what-is-a-leaky-gut/). Other diseases that can happen due to high oxalates & leaky gut is “Litchen Sclerosis.” If you suffer from Litchen Sclerosis here’s a blog with good resources: http://lichensclerosis.wordpress.com.
Poppa Rotzee
Funny, I have a lot of those symptoms and I am as close to a carnivore lol. I eat a lot of meat and stumbled upon this article looking for Kale Recipes and wanted to add more fruit and veggies to my diet.
Pauline
I would differ on these comments.. i personally know several women with fibro…..those who did the work for green smoothies, lost weight, increased energy, with most if not all symptoms of fibro gone.
Joanna Katherine
Hi there. All of these conditions are also related to mercury toxicity from Amalgam fillings. See Andrew Cutler’s research on http://www.noamalgam.com
amy
Autism is NOT a symptom.
Laura
RE. Autism as “symptom”… This just shows how unscientific the basis for most of these kind of articles are. Please people, consult real medical professionals and check your facts before making sweeping statements about food stuffs.
Nothing in excess is good, but you can do so much worse than eating a whole bag of green leafy vegetables a day.
Really
Do your research people. This is from WHfoods.com
“For the vast majority of individuals who have not experienced the specific problems described above, oxalate-containing foods should not be a health concern. Under most circumstances, high oxalate foods like spinach can be eaten raw or cooked and incorporated into a weekly or daily meal plan as both baby spinach and mature, large leaf spinach can both make healthy additions to most meal plans. In short, the decision about raw versus cooked or baby versus mature leaf spinach or other oxalate-containing vegetables, for example, should be a matter of personal taste and preference for most individuals.”
BrownEyedGirl
After finding out that Whole Foods has sold out and is supporting “co-existing with GMO’s” (check out Sarah’s article & news video) and that many of their “365” brand of “organic” (yeah right) veggies come from China, yes CHINA (even the California Blend), I cannot ever again put my trust in their company or their products. Before finding out the truth, I traveled 40 minutes to shop at the closest Whole Foods store and I will never again shop there unless it is absolutely necessary. And although I have started shopping at several local stores (even before I came across this tragic knowledge) because most of the food in “Whole Foods” is so ridiculously overpriced, I will now gladly pay twice as much at my local health food stores who sell truly organic food and still care about integrity. It is a sad, sad day when even our so-called “health food” stores are selling out for profit now.
Amanda
WHfoods.com is not related to the Whole Foods stores……… it stands for “The world’s healthiest foods”
BrownEyedGirl
I did not know that…thanks for clarifying.
JoshW
I work at Wholefoods Market, and what you just said is a complete lie. The wholefoods store is one of 2 certified organic grocery stores. They are held to strict regulations to maintain that status and are held accountable by 3rd party companies.
Meagan
I used to work at WholeFoods Market too. And I support what Josh said. Whole Foods doesn’t support GMOs, and clearly labels GMOs. Also, at WFM we treat organic vs conventional very seriously. The organic stuff is always above or away from conventional and clearly labeled.
Shahee
http://www.triplepundit.com/2013/03/foods-promises-storewide-gmo-labeling-2018/
karen
stand behind you brown eye girl, Josh sorry you are fooled if you think this is a lie!
Annie
How do I find Sarah’s article and news video?
jolita
I do not agree with this article, say: cook your veggies and put butter on…. greens healing properties can not be denied, of course I do not recommend living on greens, but all veggies and fruits contain oxelates and is not a threat to health including greens. she should have also wrote, if you got cancer do chemotherapy and cook all of your greens and vegetables so you get completely nutrient deficient and die faster
AngieB
Where do these people get their education and where are the references to these asinine recomendations? Where is the research people!!!
stephanie
i agree! this is the kind of article that is hanging onto one idea while overlooking many. seriously, and it comes up in a google search for kale smoothies, because of the content. exactly what i do not want to see, people being turned away from leafy greens due to false information that parades as fact in this article.
last day isrealite
Well said. Deception at its best, when you cook food you kill all the nutrients.
me
What total bollox people spout in here about cooking greens removes nutrients. I read a recent study which actually showed nutrients were AMPLIFIED thru cooking. end of the day there’s so much bullshit spread online nobody really knows anything. eat wat u like and die
John
I’m going to agree with me. Cooking veggies doesn’t kill nutrients at least not much if you cook it right. Cook on medium temp at most and you retain most of the nutrients. High temps is bad for most everything. Spinach is better cooked than raw as it releases more nutrients cooked. Here’s an article and study about it:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=raw-veggies-are-healthier
Karen
Oxalates are not nutrients, they are anti nutrients
okapi
yeah cooking leafy greens is actually essential to unlocking them as a great source of vitamin a. blanket statements are not good; cooking reduces some nutrients while amplifying others. it depends on what you’re after.
okapi
also, please no one stop eating vegetables because of fear of oxalates. how many people have you heard of with oxalate stones? how devastating to their health has it been, when compared to our obesity epidemic? how about the heavily supported theory that a diet high in fiber and natural foods prevents colon cancer, which is super deadly? please don’t throw a great thing out the window because you heard a scary thought. compare it to what you know, what you see people actually sick and dying from, and pick your battles wisely. Lord knows what unhelpful foods the vitamin-and-fiber-rich fruits and vegetables in your diet will be replaced with.
Jim
Autism actually is a symptom. It is not a disease. It is a brain injury caused by vaccine serum that passes through a damaged blood brain barrier. There are certain viruses a mother can have that passes from her body to the fetus through the blood. they cause the protective blood brain barrier that should close soon after birth in the child to stay open which allows harmful vaccine serum to enter the brain and damage the part that controls our social aspects. Do the research and you will find the truth. Autism like all diseases is not genetic. The modern medical establishment and the evil money grabbing fda does not want anyone healed. They want to treat you. Wake up America
Nina
“[Autism] is not a disease….Autism like all diseases is not genetic.”
Huh? Make up your mind.
Laura
Oh gosh, do you really believe that? I recommend reading actual scientific articles on autism research. This is an extremely complex issue and I feel that many people just find it more convenient to stay on the surface of it rather than be bothered to read more and investigate better. By the way, I work with autistic adults.
kk
there is no “good” research to backup the claim that vaccines cause autism. The research making such claims was badly flawed.and unable to be replicated!
paigea
How did my cousins get Autism in the 50’s when neither of them were vaccinated for anything?
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Autism has been around for centuries, particularly Asperger’s syndrome that Albert Einstein was reported to have. We are talking about regressive autism .. the type where the baby is fine .. talking and making eye contact and overall developing normally and then gets a round of shots which triggers regression to a nonverbal state and on the spectrum behavior.
Jim
You tell em Jolita. This article is ridiculous. Telling people not to eat healthy food that actually keeps you in perfect health. This article was probably really put out by the fda that wants everyone sick.
OMG
Please, please, please…people do your research before you side with any articles that are based from one source (especially the Weston A Price Foundation).
OMG…Misinformation
Also, someone is trying to push this because it is the first thing that comes up on Google when you type in “green smoothie diet”. Now who in the heck would have a problem with green smoothies? I know..people who want you to eat animal products. The people of the opposing Paleo Diet!! After knowing who, what, when, where and then why and how, I can no longer use this article as a good source of information. This is essentially misleading misinformation.
Jonathan
The People of the Opposing Paleo Diet….?….The Paleo diet consists of whole foods including nuts, seeds, non-starchy vegetables including leafy greens, meat, eggs, and dairy if well tolerated depending on whose type of Paleo you are following.
There are some zero carbers in the Paleo movement but most Paleo sites I’ve read talk about tons of plants….they mainly avoid legumes, grains, and dairy depending on site.
janet kile
I just read this same article that this quote was taken from – after reading the main article and thinking OMG —-
THE WHFoods article information seemed reasonable and more evenly written and handled……..
Nina
I agree fully with your summation of the referenced article Aimee. How the author of the Green Smoothie article derived her information from that same article is totally off the wall. As with all things, moderation is the key for anything you eat or drink. And of course there are the people who take Coumadin who must avoid dark green leafy vegetables because it could cause them to have severe bleeding issues.
dr mark
Careful here: for someone taking stable dose of coumadin and them eating a new diet high in Vitamin K will actually cause a reversal in the effect of coumadin leading to LESS bleeding. It is the WITHDRAWAL of green veggies (vitamin k) that can increase INT leading to bleeds.
Nina
That’s what I said!!!!! You just restated it another way. But the whole idea of green smoothies causing harm is ludicrous.
Nina
Regina
I drank a green smoothie at the end of June, I became very Ill after drinking it. I feel as thought i am going to die. I have so much pain all through my body. I have had so many infections after drinking this also., One doctor did say she has seen other people with bad reactions, but she didn’t know how to help me. To the person who wrote this article,,, Please send me an email.. Please! I am so sick from the green smoothie, this is how I found this web site. Please help me
RD
I gave CVK education as part of my job at a hospital and our protocol, backed up by the ADA was that you maintain normal eating habits while taking coumadin. If you are used to eating foods with vit K then you don’t want to stop and lose their health benefits, and this will not increase clotting. If you don’t normally eat like this then absolutely don’t start adding vit K.
Fleur
I don’t think this article is a major concern. Whether you eat cows that eat grass or smoothies, you are getting nutrition from plants so why does she not mention cows. I don’t feel this article has much basis. Green for Life by Victoria Boutenko has sources than one guy. I don’t follow fads, I try to eat a balance of foods some of which are processed and majority organic fruits and veggies raw. I think moderation is the key for everything in life.
Heidi @ Low Oxalate Info
Aimee,
You are right. That article only lists a few very high oxalate foods — it’s not very comprehensive. The Trying Low Oxalates Yahoo Group has the most up-to-date comprehensive list of the oxalate content of foods, which is about 196 pages long at last count.
I love Sarah’s post for bringing attention to oxalate. Spinach can cause serious health problems. Scroll down to Susan Owens’ comments below (one of the leading oxalate researchers in the world for more information) for more thoughts on spinach. I wouldn’t eat the stuff for anything!!!
But there are a lot of low and medium oxalate leafy greens like turnip greens, mustard greens, dino kale, cabbage and letttuce that could be added to a smoothie in moderate amounts (a half cup or a cup). Many people with healthy gut function could handle this amount of oxalate and benefit from the vitamins and minerals. But spinach and swiss chard in large amounts – YIKES!!!
Terrie Schultz
Hi Heidi and Amy, you may be interested in this:
http://blog.greensmoothiegirl.com/2012/06/01/can-green-smoothies-devastate-your-health/
Natalie
What? Is this for real?
I’ve never read so much BS in my life… you may as well have written we’re all better off eating large steaks for breakfast along with that fried butter.
Greens are good for us! I’ve been a healthy Vegan for 4 years and trust me I can see and feel the difference in myself from cuttingout processed crap, dairy, meat and fish… we get EVERYTHING we need from the plant world…
Also take a look online and investigate for yourselves people…be your own investigator of TRUTH.
kealey
right on Natalie! i was just looking for the “great greens smoothie” recipe and i come across this absolute load of rubbish. read The China Study by Campbell, and Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by CB Esselstyn. and seriously get your head out of your ass.
Julie
absolutely read The China Study. It will change how you feel about our nutrition standards here in the United States. You will never look at nutrition the same way again. I have been drining green smoothies for the last year at least 1/2 quart a day and so has my family. We have more energy, less sickness. Got turned on to the concept after hearing about greensmoothiegirl.com and get her program.
We eat “whole foods” as much as possible. Great feeling!
Will
I’m sorry, the “China Study” has been proven time and time again, to be bunk.
This isn’t an “anti meat” agenda going on here, it’s just looking at one side effect of certain vegetables consumed in excess, but in a non comprehensive way without much sources to back it up. That doesn’t make it all or nothing, like extremists on either side of the “agenda” cry as they blow their whistles.
And as far as the paleos go, they are ALL OVER green vedge — if you don’t even know who you’re crusading against (acting like they’re Atkins disciples), that speaks more about you than it does them.
ruth wilkerson
absolutely agree you with you natalie 100% when you take away all the verbage the article says… if you dare to eat something green cook it and put butter on it. our diets are like a symphony everything works together in the whole foods world. if all you eat every day all day is spinache i can see this being a problem. and just because leafy greens hold this component doesn’t mean it acts that way when it is in our bodies and combined with other whole foods. there is no large population study or scientific evidence to prove any of this.
Will
*anti-vegan, pro-meat rather.
anne roosa
IN addition to spinach, above article also mentions swiss chard,as green having oxolates- NOT all greens!
-As a young adult (in my 20’s) I went to an MD for arthritis pain- he wanted to give me steroid injections, When I refused them, he said I’d be back when they got worse. I did research and found out oxalates (tomatoes,potatoes, swiss chard etc)and red meat (beef) made MY symptoms worse IF I OVERDID IT AND ATE TOO MUCH-eg: those bushels of tomatoes in the summer!)
Not sure if organic versions of these would NOT bother me/ I can eat them in MODERATION-and I’m sure everyone doesn’t have my problem. But I had an insensitive MD tell me my arthritis wasn’t that bad – and I exaggerated my pain and needed to grow up- ALL my problems were caused by my OVERWEIGHT!
Needless to say-I never went back to the insensitive idiot-and found out my problems were caused by oxalic acid and could be controlled with my diet. Also, 20 years later, my arthritis got so bad- I had to have both knee joints replaced. Just finding out it was probably SOMETHING in my diet that caused this too-unfortunately , I know I can NOT look to the medical community for answers to health and nutrition! JUST found this site- so glad! I think I’m really on the right track, now! Thanks to all!
Kyle
Be sure to cook leafy greens with butter for maximum absorption of minerals? That makes absolutely no sense.
Yvon
Yes it does as a lot of the vitamins are fat soluble so adding fat to your meal maximizes absorption.
biologygirl
Ever heard of a comma? Try using them. They would make your comment much easier to read.
Shakil
Rude.
Shelly
Not rude, but true.
Karen
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, idiot
Karen
my last comment was for biologygirl…your comment is rude and unnecessary
Ash
I found this article a little upsetting…I’m not saying it’s not true but it was defiantly hard to read. Why? My father went on the Gerson Therapy solely for fourth stage pancreatic cancer and does green juices daily (chard, green pepper, escarole, romaine, beet tops, watercress, red cabbage, one green apple)–> His cancer cells/tumor are dying! While the Gerson Therapy is known for its carrot juices, the green are considered the most vital. I saw this first hand. I don’t know….more than a fad for the dad!
Will
Awesome, so glad to hear stories like that of your Dad’s. Keep sharing them somewhere, anywhere.
Matt
Yep, totally awesome as the man says.
Mum unfortunately passed from cancer recently and we all totally wish we’d known about Gerson et al 9 years ago when she first got diagnosed. Still, at least all that knowledge about the power of raw whole foods and – yes – organic green and other vegetable juices is now doing those of us left behind a power of good.
Tell your father to keep up the good work 😀
Lisa
That is wonderful! I have lost so many family members to cancer over the last few years, all of them used chemotherapy and radiation. I’ve started a major battle with some family members stating that if I got cancer I would not do chemo and would do the Gerson therapy, or something similar. I firmly believe the answer is in our diets. It’s so awesome to hear testimonials.
I’m not sure about this article. I find it disappointing. Maybe the health problems are a concern to some people, but this article gives a very harsh tone at the entire green smoothie world, and there is no way someone will make me believe that having a green smoothie with spinach once a day is bad for me. If I had some of the symptoms I’m sure it would be worth looking in to, but for the rest of us, don’t make it sound like the plague! It’s almost silly to me.
Lesley
The Garson diet is amazing. I encourage all to read his books and watch the documentary called ‘the beautiful Truth’.
As for this article..I can’t help but shake my head in disbelief on how poorly it was written. So much disinformation. You mid as well said for everyone to stick to the ‘fast food diet’ because THAT is just, if not more healthy for you.
Roy
Sprulina is on the low oxalate list and Chlorella is claimed to help metabolize oxlates and flush them out.
Green smoothies are not the problem.
They are good and healthy.
It is what you put in them.
Just don’t use spinach, chard or beet.
A good mix of lettuces, arugula, broccoli sprouts, bok choy, alfalfa sprouts and dino kale are all on the low oxalate list.
You can make smoothies with whatever you like. Just choose carefully if you are oxalate sensitive like myself.
I have been through the kidney and bladder stones. I had a sudden flare up of arthritis about a month ago and finally realized that it was the spinach and chard in my smoothies.
Not stopping smoothies but I will be planting a low oxalate garden next year.
Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist
Truvia? It is genetically modified … made GMO corn.