Warning: Raw Veganism Will Steal Your Health

by Sarah TheHealthyHomeEconomist October 3, 2011

Raw veganism activistThere is a sizeable community of people who practice raw veganism near where I live and these folks are hard core.

This is easy to understand as those who embark on raw veganism typically feel fantastic for quite some time while eating this way.   For several months or even a year or two, increased energy, clear skin and resistance to infection may be observed.

Is this because raw veganism is the right way to eat long term?

Far from it.

Raw veganism is really a cleansing diet which helps to detoxify the body, not nourish the body.

The raw, whole foods that vegans consume are certainly a huge leap forward from conventional processed foods and anyone would initially feel better eating raw vegan if he/she had been eating the Standard American Diet previously.

Over time, as the body becomes depleted of minerals, serious health issues start to emerge if raw veganism is continued.

This is because the fat soluble activators A, D, and K2 – only found in animal foods – supercharge mineral absorption and without these critical nutrients in the diet, mineral depletion and ill health is the inevitable result.

The bottom line?  You can eat loads of mineral rich foods as a raw vegan and still be mineral starved.

Watch this 3 minute video below where Maria, a former fan of raw veganism and the creator of the Green Smoothie Challenge discusses her abrupt conversion to nutrient dense animal foods due to the health and tooth challenges she experienced after two years as a raw vegan.  Her vegan catharsis came after reading Rami Nagel’s book Cure Tooth Decay.

You will be shocked how rapidly her health challenges resolved after she began to consume nutrient dense animal foods such as cod liver oil, raw butter, and organ meats.

If you know any folks that practice raw veganism, please forward this video.   Folks who follow veganism are in serious denial about how this way of eating is going to eventually destroy their health if it hasn’t already and a testimonial from a former hard core vegan may be just what they need to realize that humans are not designed to subsist purely on plant foods.

Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

More Information

Angelina Jolie says veganism nearly killed her

12 Year old vegan has bones of an 80 year old

Baby breastfed by vegan mother dies

Supersize Me Girlfriend Quits Veganism

Picture Credit

 

Comments (255)

  1. Want proof that those that eat vegetables and legumes compared to those that eat meat? Walk around a discount super market, the people are as wide as the carriages. Now walk around Whole Foods, the people are as thin as the celery. Pretty easy to figure out. I went vegan 1 year ago and have lost 45 lbs, was previously a professional athlete and would go back and eat vegan simply for the body fat % advantage it would give me (american football, mind you). :-)

    Reply
  2. The opinions expressed in this article are exactly the opposite to what I have experienced.

    I have been a raw vegan for 5 years and 9 months. Within 8 weeks of starting eating a 100% plant based diet, I was fully cured of Crohn’s disease and had no more gastric reflux which was an ongoing problem that had plagued me for years.

    Prior to the raw vegan diet I had followed a strict organic Paleo regimen for around a year and while that brought some benefits such as weight loss, it did not cure me of my reflux problems.

    It was when I cut out all animal fat and protein that my health improved then fold.

    In fact, the more organic high water content plant based food I eat, the better I feel. My energy and health has been improving rather than declining. I have had zero dental problems, in fact my dentist always comments how clean my teeth are when I go in for my 6-monthly checkup. I now have more energy in my forties than in my twenties. Strangely, my eye sight has dramatically improved too.

    Many people do not correctly follow the raw vegan 100% because of the cost, lack of available high quality fruit/vegies, or simply lack of discipline.

    The raw vegan lifestyle is one I can afford to follow, and I would highly recommend this to anyone. The trick to the raw vegan diet is to make sure you eat enough calories per day. It does required discipline initially but the rewards are so worth it!!

    Reply
    • Interesting story, thanks.

      How long did it take you to enjoy the vegan raw diet in the beginning? Did you like most fruit and vegetables already before? Coz I don’t :( But I want to try vegan whole food raw diet, and hope that there is a time when the body starts to “understand” what I’m doing and start craving the good stuff.

      Thanks!

      Reply
    • Thanks.I simply don’t see how you can say, “I would highly recommend this to anyone” when you just before that said that most people cannot afford it which, is true.

      Reply
  3. Pingback: The Kind Diet: Is eating VEGAN the only way to be truly kind? | Weed'em & ReapWeed'em & Reap

  4. Okay, people. I have been following a raw vegan diet for five months now, thanks to @Durianrider and Freelea. I use the app called cronometer to track my nutrients.

    Today, I got:
    224% RDA of water just from food alone, all of the RDA of B vitamins (even b12,) 1001% RDA vitamin a, 1941% RDA vitamin k, ALL of my vitamin D from the sunshine, and I consumed ALL of the required minerals today, too. I got 206% of my omega 3s, 105% of my protein, 28% of my fats, 434% of carbs, 232% of potassium, no cholesterol, and very low naturally occurring sodium (24%) from fruits and vegetables.

    I am eating raw, low fat, without any alcohol or caffeine, supplements, super foods, shots, or any other special pills or powders in my diet. I am a healthy, happy teenager (14 years old!). I am grateful that I have made this lifestyle switch at such a young age. I know for a fact that it will continue to change my life for the better.

    (So to all of you anti-vegans, you can shut up. Your arguments suck anyway. Vegans will always win the argument. Cased closed.)

    Reply
  5. Pingback: Vegans and Vitamins | Healthy Baby Weight

  6. Pingback: The Dangers of Vegan Diets for Pregnant and Nursing Women and Children

  7. OKAY. I was following this all and thinking to myself, okay i understand that maybe its mostly a detox, putting aside the fact that I have talked to many people online and watched a lot of videos of people, some of the healthiest people ive ever seen, been raw vegan over 10 years! They look great! I can see how it depends where you live and your body. I am not raw vegan cause canada is fucking cold for that lol but maybe i am just a wimp HOWEVER I am vegan and when you start saying that you MUST have animal products for proper health, you are bullshitting me right? You barely have to read anything to find out that is a lie but ill list just a few facts.
    On the news the other day it said that vegetarians are 47% less likely to develop heart disease, adding one 3-ounce serving of unprocessed red meat to one’s daily diet was associated with a 13% greater chance of dying during the course of the study. (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/13/health/la-he-red-meat-20120313)
    “A major new study of 120,000 people has shown that reducing the amount of beef, pork and lamb in our diet to 1½oz a day could prevent one in ten early deaths in men, and one in 13 premature deaths in women.” http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114714/Red-meat-death-study-The-truth-neednt-juicy-steak-all.html#axzz2KjDEfQ5I
    There is a lot more, im just getting bored of typing…
    But seriously do some research. I saw no solid evidence in this article. And along with that, think of the cruelty involved in the meat industry.

    Reply
  8. Vitamin D is hard to get in a vegan diet, but you can get it from the sun, as well as from supplements (although I think supplements are considered “inert” and potentially less beneficial than other sources). Even in a non-vegan diet the largest source of VItamin D is in fortified milk, so if you chose to be vegan you could drink fortified soy milk, or rice milk, and avoid animal products while still getting Vitamin D.

    With Vitamin A–there are a TON of very good sources of vitamin A from vegetables and fruit. Absolutely NOT an “animal only” vitamin. http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/food-sources-of-vitamin-A.php

    Vitamin K is an interesting beast. I read articles that suggested K2 was only found in animal products, but this website http://veganbodybuilding.blogspot.com/2012/06/importance-of-vitamin-k2.html
    Seems to think K2 is produced during fermentation and can be consumed by eating natto, or sauerkraut. (they don’t mention how much you would need to eat).

    Reply
  9. LOL QUOTE
    ” fat soluble activators A, D, and K2 — only found in animal foods ”
    Just in reference to this quote.

    Foods with significant amounts of Vitamin A:
    Amaranth Leaves
    Bok Choy
    Broccoli
    Brussels Sprouts
    Butternut Squash
    Carrots
    Chinese Broccoli
    Chinese Cabbage
    Kale
    Leeks
    Peas
    Pumpkin
    Rapini
    Spinach
    Squash – summer
    Squash – winter
    Sweet Potato
    Swiss Chard Cantaloupes
    Grapefruit
    Guava
    Mango
    Papaya
    Passionfruit
    Tomatoes
    Watermelon

    Foods with significant amounts of Vitamin K:
    Avocado
    Blackberries
    Blueberries
    Boysenberries
    Chinese Pear
    Cranberries
    Grapes
    Kiwi
    Loganberries
    Mango
    Mulberries
    Pear
    Plum
    Pomegranate
    Raspberries
    Tomatoes

    Alfalfa, sprouted
    Artichoke
    Asparagus
    Bok Choy
    Broccoli
    Brussels Sprouts
    Cabbage
    Carrots
    Cauliflower
    Celery
    Chinese Broccoli
    Cucumber
    Kale
    Leeks
    Okra
    Peas
    Rapini
    Spinach
    Spirulina
    Squash – winter
    Swiss Chard

    And as for Vitamin D, 90% of people who DO eat meat do not get enough of this, that’s why there are supplements and shots from you doctor. It also comes from the all natural SUN

    Whoever wrote this is writing out of their ass, LOL.

    Reply
  10. Farming is to blame for obesity? We started farming 12000 years ago, obesity is a recent “plague” due to processed & fast foods..and you can deep-fry carrots just as easily as anything else so don’t try to shove that on our NATURAL omnivorous diets.

    You don’t have to eat meat EVERY day, I eat vegetarian a few days a week, but don’t tell me that it was/is bad for us and blame something that helped our species survive and evolve! If we didn’t start drinking milk we as a species would’ve been screwed, respect our survival instincts & respect us as the animal we are and have become!
    Vegans always love animals & nature, yet all they do is pity it and condemn the animals they are themselves, hypocrites.

    Reply
  11. If you’re properly detoxified, B12-generating-bacteria will live in a very friendly way in your mouth and part of your digestive tube….very friendly little thing, doesn’t do harm just chills around.

    This is the reason why fruitarians (ok… vegans that are close to being a fruitarian) that have done a proper detox (this can last a long time if you’ve been eating a lot of processed foods and dead food) don’t have any B12 problems… nor do they have strong bones.

    If you look in nature…. the animals that are truly powerful are the plant-eating ones, not the carnivores. The ones that can run the fastest and the longest at the same time are also these animals. Carnivores get tired quickly and give up.

    Just look at the carnivore animals….they’re the old-school animals…. felines, gators…etc. Eat SOME fish if you want and find trust-worthy sources but stop telling people the vegan concept has anything unnatural in it, cause it doesn’t. THE BAD VARIATIONS of it do, not the authentic raw veganism.

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  12. Most of you peoples’s comments are just sad. What you fail to understand is that there’s no such thing as “the raw vegan diet”….and there are tons of variations of it. There are tons of doctors out there recommending not eating dead animal corpses or anything from animals. The human body is not meant for that kind of junk food. The problem with most vegans is that they still have the mindset they had when they were not vegans…thinking about “meat replacements” and stuff like that, so they eat all kind of crap. There’s no such thing as a healthy diet that doesn’t include fruits. Just look at your body….you body is designed VERY simplistically, nothing aggressive about it: flexible hands to pick fruits and nails to peal them. We’re definitely not carnivores, not necrophiliacs eating all kinds of disgusting organs and DEFINITELY not erbivores to eat a raw vegan diet comprised of mostly vegetables and leaves. Those advocating that obsessively are very lost people.

    We’re actually meant to live mostly of raw fresh fruits….those will give you most of what you need…..and some vegetables and some nuts. We’re not root eaters. Someone posted we should eat meat and roots which is veeeeery very sick.

    All you guys bringing here all kinds of scientific data ….please acknowledge that nobody knows more than 30% of the body’s actual chemistry. There were many people who lived extended periods of time on oranges (as Prof. Hotema mentioned in many of his works)… and the explanation is pretty simple. Our body (liver) can convert substances and generate substances, sometimes with little energy consumption.

    So yeah, the raw vegan diet or whatever you guys call it can be very dangerous if you don’t get that you’re a FRUGIVORE species and your closest relatives are chimps, gorillas and urangutans. If you’re getting it you’ll probably burst into laugher when you read some of the anti-vegan propaganda out there.

    Drinking milk for calcium is like sucking on a pipe for iron. My calcium went way up after fruit fasting and giving up milk… no such thing as milk being a healthy calcium source. It actually ruins your blood.

    Most of this “scientifical” reasons for you to be an omnivore (which comes from the latin omnius, meaning everything, not human) are bullcrap. They’re put out there to confuse you cause there’s a huuuuge industry out there called the alimentary industry…and then there’s an even bigger one that’s called pharmaceutical industry.

    I hope the website owner has the integrity to validate this post.

    Take care, guys. :) Start seeing what doesn’t work and fix it. It’s pretty obvious that your variation of this lifestyle is not the natural one if it doesn’t work for you, read more about it from people who are successful for a long time. Start eating those fruits, no such thing as glycemic problems caused by fruits in a healthy body. And no, we’re not different among each other, it’s just that some of our organs are weak. Regenerate them with fruits and herbs.

    Reply
    • Great comment. The lady who wrote this article is a painfully obvious shill for the meat dairy medical pharma complex. As frustratingly illogical and misleading as these types of pieces are I always take some heart that the very fact that people are being paid to put the propaganda out there is proof positive that the aforementioned industries are getting worried that the masses may be close to finally understanding and (gasp!) acting on the truth about the human diet.

      Read 80/10/10 by Doug Graham to learn just about everything you need to know.There is nothing better you could possibly do for you long term mental and physical health.

      The fruit will set you free.

      Reply
  13. ahaha.what a bunch if bull**it.
    absolute nonsense. human beings were made to eat raw.no one was born with an oven my dear.just like every specie in animal kingdom. another thing is that after eating dead poisonous food it take a few years for a body to restore to normal health. detoxifying takes years and you will feel bad sometimes ,it’s a given! please don’t post that rubbish if you don’t know the subject because it’s just ridiculous. i have been raw for many years,i have been pregnant and gave birth to a healthy baby being on this diet. and he’s still being breastfed exclusively over 1 y.o.

    Reply
  14. I have never ever had to take B12 supplements nor do I know any other vegans who actually do.

    And btw, we do have the ability to digest grass, it’s called the appendix.

    Reply
  15. plus check out

    Megan Elizabeth, Kristina from fully raw, Dan the life regenerator, Durian Rider Free. Dr Cassar, Dr Douglas Graham etc.

    Reply
  16. Firstly,

    There are many people who have been raw vegan for 10, 20+ years. Secondly, all this arguing about vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 comes from the soil, it is found in the soil- not in meat. All vitamins, minerals and nutrients needed to nourish the body are found in plants. Animals like the cow- which are vegetarian animals do not create iron for example in their body. It comes from what they eat or in the case of factory farming- what is injected in to them so by the by- all of the nutrients people eat meat and dairy to claim, come from plants to begin with. Secondly, why are humans drinking the milk of another mammal? We are the only species on the whole of the earth who steal the secrections of another animal to drink- it’s pretty sickening. If you want calcium a better source would be going straight to the Kale. If you eat kale you absorb a far more concentrated source of calcium and also gain 60%+ calcium from it, unlike cows milk in which you only gain 30% and less. The proteins in milk AND meat are dangerous to the human body. Casein, one of the main proteins in milk has been proven to help cancer cells grow in all trimesters (the china study). Why do humans feel the need to forcefully impregnate a cow, steal her child, slaugher him if he’s a boy and use her as a milk machine if she is a girl? Why do you think it’s okay to put another living creature through that, just because you want her puss, bacteria, cancer causing milk? If humans were supposed to drink milk after childhood then it would be their own mothers milk or other human milk. Humans need to be able to digest the sugars in milk which the body is unable to do properly are weaning off of human milk. Thirdly, why do you think it is okay to be part of a holocaust every day because it’s not humans that are suffering? Raising animals for food uses far too much water and food. We could stop world hunger if the whole western world stopped eating meat- but no, far too greedy for that. It is causing problems to the earth in it’s self- causing more green house gases than cars, buses and planes put together.

    At the end of the day- meat eating is unstatainable, cruel and unneccesary.

    Reply
  17. Emily Upchurch via Facebook September 27, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    The very next thing that I saw in my newsfeed after this post was a status from my sister-in-law saying that her naturopath (well known locally as a Hallelujah Diet advocate) had put on a on a raw vegan diet for hormone imbalance. :(

    Reply
  18. After five years of veganism, I do feel a responsibility to let people know that it was NOT good for my health. I did everything right, hardly ate any processed food at all, ate organic and local, made everything form scratch… And supplemented! I couldn’t figure out why I was getting fat and sick when my diet was so “perfect.” I recant! Eating a traditional, grain-free diet has led to so many wonderful changes in my health and mood. I don’t feel a need to get into arguments about theories and philosophies– I have lived it.

    Reply
  19. I agree that raw veganism, like all fad diets lacks in proper balance in nutrients. However, done properly without the extremes will provide sufficient nutrition. Beta carotene, which your body converts into vitamin A is plentiful in a variety of colorful vegetables. “Vitamin D” (not a vitamin) is synthesized by the body from cholesterol – in the presence of sunlight. Vitamin K2 can be found in fermented soy products. Gut flora plays a huge role in vitamin production and absorption. Bacteria synthesize vitamin K2 (from K1) and vitamin B12. They also help keep the intestines healthy – thereby preventing malabsorption.
    That being said, I do not encourage raw veganism (or any other diet), but not for the reasons you mentioned. First, there are vegetables, nuts and grains that should NOT be eaten raw. as they contain toxins which get de-activated when cooked. There are also certain nutrients which get activated or increase potency when cooked.
    Second, vegan diets (raw or not) do not necessarily take health into consideration and allow consumption of toxins.
    Third, these diets are extremely limited and therefore very difficult to properly balance – if at all. People have different metabolisms, different genes, different lifestyles – just because one person can survive on a certain diet, doesn’t mean another can. Variety is very important in order to get a well balanced diet.
    Bottom line – there’s more to nutrition than just diet. For optimal health the entire person needs to be considered, not just what and how much they eat.

    Reply
  20. Kait Ferrall via Facebook September 26, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Eveyone is different, so I think any claim should be taken as a personal claim by the person claiming it, and it stops there. Sure, apply their experience to your own experiments for yourself. It’s difficult for anyone to really Know anything because of all the different factors, and studies will both validate and trump each school of thought! How do you know which is right when they all seem well-articulated, well-researched, confident in their claims, citations, numbers, etc. And people will always share studies and anecdotes that validate their own current belief and practice. I’m not a scientist, so I can’t do perfect unbiased non-cherry-picked studies myself, so I just pay attention to My body. Many go vegan and claim feeling great, energized, clean, etc. I did, too. Many also claim plummeting health after various periods of time. After staying overweight during my one year as a vegan (eating lots of fresh veggies like kale, juicing, sourdough, quinoa, tofu, kale, broccoli, sweet potatoes, kale…), I was over-eating, craving sugar and carbs all the time, yet always Starving and hardly ever satiated by my meals. It wasn’t the right diet for me. People feeling great after going vegan can be achieved also by just eliminating over-processed food, sugar, HFCS, refined grains, etc. I suspect this is why people credit veganism to their new energy and cleaner body, often it’s a stark contrast from a diet high in processed conventional industrially produced food and their body needed more veggies, etc. I personally feel better after switching to a less processed diet with organic veggies, grass fed meats and dairy, certified humane eggs, etc. than how I felt when I initially went vegan! Imagine how insane that is for a person who went vegan for animals. I still anguish over this, actually. But I’m still learning, and I don’t think I’ve ever felt better. I can’t speak for the older vegans (like Charlotte Gerson) because I don’t know everything. But I do know vegan and vegan raw did Not suit me and I found out in a year. 30 pounds lighter thanks to eating animal products again and following Real Food rules…

    Reply
  21. Suzanne Kelly via Facebook September 26, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Interesting….I like to see all perspectives. I too was one of the ones who started out great as a raw vegan and went south, BUT I see others who thrive with it, so I am not too quick to judge something negatively. It just makes me curious as to WHY some people do so well and others do not.

    Reply
  22. @Suzanne everyone has a different store of fat soluble vitamins .. perhaps these individuals were born to very healthy mothers who had plenty of nutrients to pass along so they were born very sturdy from the start. Also, if one has excellent gut balance the negatives of veganism will be mitigated somewhat due to good absorption of nutrients although it would not be optimal by a long shot. Also, even if someone seems fine, the key is that traditional cultures were never vegan (sometimes the celibate leaders were but never the baby producing population) as veganism cannot sustain reproduction as fertility eventually disappears.

    Reply
  23. Guggie L Daly via Facebook September 26, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    It’s so interesting how different things work for different people. I hope that science continues to progress in this area so that we have a better understanding and a better way of determining what would work for us besides experimentation.

    For example, dairy appears to be good for DH, but is horrible in me (and my family). My daughter and last son have an affinity for it and my middle son, like me, needs to stay away from it.

    My brother healed cavities with daily juicing. (The correct way). He did a 2 month daily juice program so that he wouldn’t have to do his required dental work to join the AF.

    The next brother, did not respond at all to either kind and had to consent to dental work.

    Reply
  24. Suzanne Kelly via Facebook September 26, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    Yes while I can understand this argument…what about people like Mimi Kirk, or Charlotte Gerson?? They have been vegan for much longer than that and are enjoying amazing health benefits in their “old” or not so old age???

    Reply
  25. Exactly. It is easy to see why folks get very bought into raw veganism as it is a very detoxifying diet and will generally really improve folks well being initially. BUT, over the long term a deficiency of the fat soluble vitamins only found in animal fats will develop and severe health problems begin to set in. This is why raw veganism should never be attempted long term.

    Reply
    • what are you talking about. Raw vegetarianism, or vegetarianism. If someone read you response it is as if you are saying RAW vegetarianism as opposed to vegetarianism, is not healthy. What do you mean? I dont think you know anything about vegetariianism.

      Reply
  26. Way to go Sarah. I too like others was drawn into the rejuvenation claims of raw veganism and green smoothies, and I’m pretty sure it made my thyroid problems worse. Thankfully have found my home in the traditional REAL food community and can’t get enough of my bone broth and raw butter!

    Reply
  27. Ieneke Van Houten via Facebook September 26, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Raw vegan diets are great as a temporary cleansing diet. In the long term the body needs more. Beware ideology. ANY ideology. Chet Day did a great article on this years ago, titled “When Hallelujah becomes what happened?”

    Reply
  28. How do feel about a lacto-vegetarian diet, which includes Ghee? No meats, but dairy in moderation, and consumption of Ghee, which aids in mineral and vitamin absorption.

    Reply
  29. Some long term raw vegans such as Dr. Virginia Vetrano do not take B-12 supplements and still have sufficient levels of it. The B-12 produced by bacteria in the intestines should not be absorbed because the intrinsic factor secreted in the stomach and needed for absorption cannot reach the B-12. Yet a few long term raw vegans seem to do well with endogenously produced B-12. Why is that? We don’t know. It’s better to be safe than sorry and supplement. Many omnivores need B-12 supplements as well.

    Reply
  30. I have read that the vegan diet is ecologically unsustainable and can’t feed as many people as a meat based diet. Raising meat requires far more water than raising plants. Methane gas discharged by animals adds to global warming. Animal wastes foul streams and rivers. One acre of land growing plants can sustain 10 times more people than same area raising animals. If you add fruit orchards you can feed even more people.

    Seeing as there are about 7 billion people on the planet and organic grass fed animals can feed maybe 2 billion people, what are we going to do with the 5 billion “surplus” people? Kill them off? They won’t die quietly. I don’t mean that everyone will become vegans. That’s unrealistic. But anything reducing meat consumption will help those less fortunate.
    And I do understand that those living in marginal land have no choice but to eat meat.
    I appreciate that Sarah, inspite of her fear of vegan diets (justified in some such diets) still tolerates dissenting views. Most paleo sites do not.

    Reply
  31. Human canine teeth are certainly very puny compared to bonobos who eat very little flesh food, probably less than 2 percent. True, it would be prudent to supplement with B-12 and D, the latter if you don’t enough sun. But have you seen the long list of supplements required by those who advocate the high meat high fat diet?

    “Vegans are weak.” Vegan athletes: Carl Lewis, decathlon champion; Pat Reeves, British women’s powerlifting champion and holder of world record in the deadlift and bench press;
    George Hackenscmidt, old time strongman and champion Wrestler. .

    “Vegans don’t have energy.” Raw vegan ultra endurance athletes: Michael Arnstein, Dr. Stefania Licari

    “Vegans die young.” Scott Nearing lived to 100. Others who lived to 90 and beyond: William Esser (92), Sophie Holzgreen (98), Hilton Hotema (90+), Tyyne Myettinen (94), Bronson Alcott (early vegan pioneer and contemporary of Thoreau lived to 90), George Hackenscmidt (90)..

    “You need meat for brain function.” Some vegan/vegetarian intellects: Pythagoras, Buddha,
    Ovid, St. Francis, Albert Einstein. In the classical Greek period, the time of many great thinkers the diet was plant based though inclusive of small amounts of meat. Great thought and scientific discovery also occurred in ancient China and India on similar diets.

    Yes, you can also find examples to the contrary and I don’t doubt the sincerity of those who tried the vegan diet and found it wanting.. Everything depends on context.

    Reply
  32. So she felt great on a plant-based diet at first, and now she feels great on a meat-based diet at first. Let’s see how the meat-based will make her feel in two years, this being the length of time that the plant-based diet worked for her. I guarantee she’ll be diet-searching again in two years, searching for perfection, or the next new fad. Many diets make us feel awesome at first., the change can be a stimulation to our bodies, often it’s due to mentally getting excited. This doesn’t mean that they are good for the long-term. I seriously doubt that an animal food -based diet will be good for the long term. Humans were made to eat predominantly plants with small amounts of animal protein, not the other way around. Almost every long term paleo I have seen looks horrible. Have you seen Sally Fallon lately? (http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=517&tbm=isch&tbnid=xhyz_kVJOVII-M:&imgrefurl=http://durianrider.org/2012/02/03/sally-fallon-weston-a-price-grass-fed-animal-products-for-peak-weight-loss-health/&docid=AnUQU3M1I5dDhM&imgurl=http://durianrider.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sallyfallon.jpg&w=442&h=550&ei=854nULKEC8nZ0QGA5oHoBA&zoom=1) She has gained a massive amount of weight. If I saw her in real life, I’d think she was just another overweight, unhealthy American and would not stop and think, “I want to look like her, she’s the picture of health!” Not even close!

    Reply
  33. This is an extremely misleading article. Very little of it is true. See Forks Over Knives and read the China study. Veganism is the healthiest diet in the world, if done right. And it is more environmentally sound than other diet, and cruelty-free. ALL the minerals we need to be healthy are in plants, including iron and B12. All of them. We simply have to eat the right plants. Whoever wrote this article above is seriously deluded.

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  34. Paige,

    Sigh… B-12 is not a bacteria. B-12 is a water-soluble vitamin necessary for healthy functioning of the brain and nervous system, and for the formation of blood. It is one of the eight B vitamins. Animals must obtain vitamin B12 directly or indirectly from bacteria.

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  35. are you kidding June 20, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    ugh, dumb article, sorry i don’t have a more polite way of saying it.
    brush up on your facts. veganism is a HORRIBLE diet if you DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING. there are certain things you need to supplement and you need to be eating certain things. other than that, it’s the best thing you could do for your health.
    and you know, “humans aren’t meant to be living on just plant foods” then they aren’t supposed to be eating the way we do now. anyone with a brain could see what is obviously the better choice here. i know plenty of raw vegans that have been vegans for a while and are healthier than anyone i know. you just gotta do better with your facts.

    Reply
  36. This article is stupid! I know people that are from this religion called seventh day Adventist reform movement and they are all vegetarians and vegans. My friend introduced me to his grandpa whose parents were vegan and raised him vegan. The man is 80! He is strong, walking, has no health issues, and he is fit. I have been a vegan for 6 years and I feel healthy. I know lots of people that are vegan and they have cured certain diseases by using plants and eating healthy. People need to educate themselves before making the change because everything can be supplemented. Nuts are a great way to get your dose of protein and people don’t know that. And finally Jesus did not eat meat, the fish verse does not say he ate meat. It says he was offered him a fish and a honey comb or something loke that and that he took it. It doesn’t say he took both it just says he took one.. Also in the old testament when god takes the Israelites out of Egypt he tried turning them vegetarians. That’s why when they asked for meat he sent them quails and they died by eating it. The only reason why people were allowed to eat meat after the flood was because of the lack of vegetation and to kill the longevity of the lives of men. Why would someone that knows this want to eat any meat? It kills you. There is no need of meat in our diets. Also raw veganism does not only clean your body. Vegetables And fruits have the essential nutrients and obviously our bodies absorb them. If there is something unless to eat is meat. Also honey is vegan people! If it wasn’t vegan then driving it’s not vegan.

    Reply
    • you are mostly right. When God made man, he said he has given them all the herb bearing trees for food. It was after the flood that man began to eat flesh. Maybe because nut trees took years to develop and animals didnt. But man was never created to eat meat. I have been a vegetarian for over 25 years. I have no health problems. NONE! The only thing is, I have been trying to go all raw, but it makes me look so gaunt and starved out, I keep balking when I look at myself in the mirror. That is why I am on here. To find out how to get rid of that gaunt look. Is it to use more oil? I just studied this expert on UTUBE lecturing about the danger of oils. Said we shouldnt use oils at all. So I am using coconut cream, fresh squeezed, and unheated.

      Reply
  37. I’m doing the transition to veganism from vegetarianism. All I have to say about this whole thing is that people should read and document themselves before jumping into a new diet. I’ve been a vegetarian for 2 years and it’s been great for me. I know when my body needs something and I know where to get it. With respect to some information on this post about vitamins A, D and K2 being exclusively found on animal… very very very wrong. I don’t know where the author found the information for this, but obviously was very misinform. My recommendations is that people should inform themselves about where (in a plant based diet) to find all nutrients that the body needs to be healthy, that’s what I do and I do believe that consuming meat is very unhealthy, specially here in America where companies put whatever they want on their products. If you eat meat, that’s good, but be a moderate consumer and once in a while detox yourself with a vegan diet! To all vegans and vegetarians out there: keep yourselves in health and never never take a decision on nutrition without consulting various sources (Medical doctors are not scientists nor nutritionists)

    Reply
  38. Pingback: What Are the Best Arguments Against X?: What are the best arguments against veganism? - Quora

  39. ALso ex Vegan. ALMOSt DESTORYED ME! SAVE YOUR SELF.DONT BE STUPID. GOD SAID EAT MEAT!!!! EXCERCISE AND DONT EAT PROCESSED FOODS AND YOU WILL BE GREAT. 8 MONTHS STILL RECOVERING FROM 4 MONTHS VEGAN. IT SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  40. Pingback: Are vegetarians really healthier? - Webmaster Forum

  41. This article is completely wrong. You can get all the important nutrients from plants. Animals have Vitamin A and other nutrients from PLANTS people! Think about it!

    Vitamin A: It’s true that the preformed active type of this vitamin is found only in animal foods. But plants are abundant in vitamin A precursors like beta-carotene. In fact, these provitamin A compounds are important enough that the USDA measures vitamin A content of foods as “retinol activity equivalents (RAE),” which includes both preformed vitamin A and the compounds that the body turns into vitamin A. There is no separate RDA or recommendation for animal-derived pre-formed vitamin A.

    Vitamin D: This vitamin occurs naturally in only a few foods–fatty fish, eggs from chickens who were fed vitamin D, and mushrooms treated with ultraviolet light. With such limited dietary availability, humans wouldn’t have gotten very far if not for the fact that we can make all the vitamin D we need when skin is exposed to sunlight. As humans have moved farther from equatorial zones–and spend less time outdoors–it’s become harder to make enough, though, so vitamin D-fortified foods have become important.

    Finally, debunking that K2 argument. Don’t just believe everything you read. Find out the real facts!

    Vitamin K: Best sources of this nutrient are leafy green vegetables and canola, soy and olive oils. One form of vitamin K, called vitamin K2 or menaquinone, is found in animal products but in only one lone plant food–natto, a fermented soy product that isn’t a usual part of most western vegan diets. This isn’t a problem, though, because humans have no requirement for vitamin K2. We also have bacteria in our gut that produce this form of vitamin K–so we’re covered either way. Since vitamin K is essential for blood clotting we’d see some evidence of a deficiency if vegans weren’t getting enough. But a study that compared clotting rates between vegans and meat eaters found no difference. (5)

    Reply
  42. Pingback: Anxiety, depression, laziness...Can the nameless wonder change? | Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum page 43

  43. Pingback: Vegetarian Cuisine: Eating Whole Foods for Optimum Health - …Want to Know More About Whole Food Benefits? - Whole Food Diets Here Is The Scoop!

  44. I agree with you Sarah.

    I didn’t know that Maria had switched from being a raw vegan – I always find it interesting how long they last, and why they turn to a nutrient dense diet. One question that always crosses my mind is why do raw vegans tend to look gaunt after a year or so on the diet? My opinion is it’s a mode of starvation – what do you think?

    As a side note I just have to say that I love the picture. It made me laugh out loud.
    Hannah\’s last post: First Giveaway! Lavender Oil

    Reply
    • Hannah asks: “One question that always crosses my mind is why do raw vegans tend to look gaunt after a year or so on the diet?”

      Interestingly, the low fat version of raw veganism often leads to weight GAIN, especially for women. I know because I was one of them. I gained about 30 pounds on a long term cooked vegan diet, lost most of it when I went raw, then gained it all back by the second year of raw. I have since learned that this is quite common with women attempting the 80 10 10/low fat version of the diet.

      A common stereotype of raw vegans is that they all look like Skeletor, but it’s only a stereotype, because weight gain is also quite common.
      Heather\’s last post: Oct 6, My Green Smoothie Secret!

      Reply
  45. “…Anyone would initially feel better eating raw vegan if he/she had been eating the Standard American Diet previously. Over time, as the body becomes depleted of minerals, serious health issues start to emerge if raw veganism is continued.”

    Wow.

    For someone who has never personally tried the raw vegan diet, you sure do make some razor sharp observations about it.

    I came to these same conclusions myself, but this was only after 3 years of trying like mad to live as a 100% low fat raw vegan. I, too, initially enjoyed wonderful health improvements on this diet, but as time wore on, things been to take to turn for the worse, much to my chagrin, and I ended up being diagnosed with a pretty low B12 deficiency.

    Had I continued to listen to the raw vegan gurus whose dogma I knew so well, and ignored my body’s signals of distress during this time, I would no doubt be in very bad shape today.

    There IS a tiny, tiny % of people who do well on 100% raw veganism for longer than a year or two, but hardly anyone is around whose been eating this way long term (five years or more). This, to me, speaks to your assertion that this diet is wonderful for CLEANSING but not for nourishing and building long term health.

    If a diet is simply too difficult, and too rife with potential health landmines, to be maintained longer than a couple of years at the most, then it’s probably not “man’s ideal diet” (a common claim of raw vegan diets). Extreme diets in general, where one must cut out or severely limit whole food groups, are usually unworkable for all but a tiny minority.

    I see that others who have done well on vegan diets are commenting here, sharing their perspective. I do believe that some folks do well on vegan diets, absolutely (and I personally know some some healthy vegans). However, I think these folks are a small % of the population, and that most of us are simply unable to derive all of the nutrients our bodies need from plant foods.

    I never would have said this five years ago, but my body’s absolute refusal to cooperate with a long term vegan diet (raw or cooked), taught me otherwise, and I have since connected with many others who were also unable to thrive on that diet.

    I now encourage people to find what diet works for them (because there is no “one true diet” that fits all), and to ALWAYS put their body’s feedback before any belief system, no matter how beloved and no matter how many years you’ve invested in it.

    I share my own story of diet evolution in detail on my website here:

    http://www.my-healthy-eating-secrets.com/healthy-eating.html

    Thanks for this excellent article! And thank you, Maria, for sharing your experience – it’s so important to not be scared off by the zealots from sharing the truth of your experiences with raw food or cooked vegan diets. This type of sharing allows the rest of us to learn from each other and to grow. Censoring and attacking those who share their truth doesn’t help anyone – in fact, doing so only exposes your own insecurities and doubt.
    Heather\’s last post: Oct 6, My Green Smoothie Secret!

    Reply
  46. The problem with this story is the ALL of nothing approach. I am vegetarian on the way to vegan – and know that balancing intake is crucial of vitamins, minerals. There is chemistry at work – where calcium (like calcrate a vegetarian based calcium supplement) will only be taken up in the presence of Vitamin D (form sun or supplement and not leech bones as calcium without sufficient vitamin D does – excessive MILK/Dairy intake for instance actually helps cause osteoporosis). This smacks of meat industry propaganda to me. You can get the nutrients found in Cod Liver Oil from Rapeseed (linseed) oil. Its about Balance people. Ethical vegans search out the products that do not harm/kill any animals and stay fit and healthy. rather than slam the vegan why not slam Factory Farming and choose wherever possible to eat only vegetables, pulses, nuts seeds and if you MUST eat meat because you apparenty “have” to then buy only free-range animals, eggs and dairy products. Good luck with that because Agri business dominates and churns out billions of cheap “meat”. That chook you have for dinner – if she was free and living a normal chooky life, she’d have chicks and protect them from hawks. That cow – who became your hamburger mince was a MILKER all her life churning out calf after calf, never allowed to live an love them – as they were pulled from her and killed for veal, that cow. http://www.ciwf.org.uk

    Reply
  47. “You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I’ll buy you a new car.” ~Harvey Diamond

    Reply
    • Harvey Diamond returned to eating animal products. He says that after more than two decades as a vegan he began experiencing intense cravings for red meat. He talks about this openly. The quote your reference above was written in the 1980′s and is no longer supported by him.

      Harvey Diamond now says:

      ““I was vegetarian for over a quarter of a century, but hey, things change. I’ve always told my readers that if they crave something for a long time, it must be something the body wants or needs, so have it and see how you feel. One day out of the clear blue sky, after not having meat for twenty-five years, I started to crave a charbroiled steak the way a lion craves a wildebeest. I couldn’t get it out of my head no matter how much I tried to ignore the craving or convince myself that it was some kind of aberrant desire. So finally I decided to eat the steak, throw it up and move on. The only thing was, I enjoyed it, and I felt great.”
      Heather\’s last post: Oct 6, My Green Smoothie Secret!

      Reply
  48. This ‘article’ is complete bunk – there are many factors to health, such as exercise and emotional health, that could have caused her failing health, and her ‘recovery’ could have also been the result of many factors, even psychological. I have been completely vegan for almost 20 years and my health has continuously improved (vastly). Raw is even better (I am not completely raw, but 50% raw and going ever higher – all cooking does is destroy nutrients and create toxins, so raw veganism includes more nutrients!). I have never followed any diet – I merely eat colorfully (variety) and listen to my body.

    The human body is not designed for animal products at all. We have the long digestive system and dull teeth of herbivores because that’s what we are. Every animal product is linked with disease and dysfunction when consumed by humans.

    Educate yourself on nutrition for real, rather than following anecdotal scare stories. Record numbers of people are returning themselves and their children to vegan and vegetarian diets. As a result, there is a push to scare people back into the fold of disease and unethical treatment of animals. I highly recommend that anyone interested in this subject read John Robbins books: Food Revolution as well as the older Diet For a New America. Robbins is a man who walks his talk, and there is real science there.

    Reply
    • I’m not sure about not being designed to eat meat at all… our digestive tracks are nowhere near the length of veg-eating animals.
      As to this statement:
      “Every animal product is linked with disease and dysfunction when consumed by humans.”
      I think it’s just plain untrue. Read some of Dr. NCM’s research for GAPS.
      While I agree that this anecdotal story is not the end-all, noone is suggesting you go on an all-meat diet, and from unhealthy animals at that. There is a happy medium.

      Reply
      • Magda, For their size, the human digestive tract is very long, unlike all meat-eaters. When a dog ingests meat, it gets no cholesterol poisoning – dogs are carnivores. When a human eats meat, cholesterol poisoning occurs, and many other diseases as well. If you believe you’re made to eat meat, let’s see you eat a rat corpse using nothing but your teeth. Your teeth are suitable for breaking the skin of fruit at most – they will have a heck of time even breaking the skin of the rat, let alone chewing it. Not to mention you’ll vomit and find it disgusting – this is your body saying NO! Eat an apple – your body says YES! It’s just common sense.

        You can think what you want about it being untrue, but disease rates are elevated with consumption of any animal products. The reason is simple – it’s the wrong fuel for the machine. The idea that veganism is some radical diet is merely the product of a twisted culture that includes all kinds of self-destructive behaviors and myths. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds – this is what the human body truly thrives on. Anything else you put in it just weighs it down and causes dysfunction.

        The person who had a problem with the raw vegan diet, if true, was probably simply not eating a well-balanced diet. Especially with raw vegan, a little knowledge is needed simply because new sources of food must be included. Simply eating the standard American filth diet minus animal products will be very unhealthy because you’re not balancing your diet.

        I also recommend taking a quality multivitamin, especially for B12. B12 is available to vegans in a natural setting (from natural water sources, minute amounts of soil on the skin of vegetables, etc), but with modern farming practices and water treatment it is largely missing. See http://veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan

        And don’t forget the compassionate side of veganism – it feels GREAT to know one’s diet is cruelty-free. Factory farms are true horrors suffered by millions of animals everyday. Why? So you can eat unhealthy stuff posing as food.

        Anyone interested in a vegan diet should read up on the basic nutrition from a reliable source, and don’t be scared by this irrational nonsense. Like I said, John Robbins has great nutritional information in Food Revolution – even for meat-eaters. We simply aren’t taught reality by most ‘experts’ and other sources of information in our culture. There are lots of people telling you all kinds of things, most of it untrue. Believe what you will – it’s your health.

        Reply
        • Some interesting info on B12 and its interaction with B9:

          Vitamin B12 normally plays a significant role in the metabolism of every cell of the body, especially affecting the DNA synthesis and regulation but also fatty acid synthesis and energy production. However, many (though not all) of the effects of functions of B12 can be replaced by sufficient quantities of folic acid (vitamin B9), since B12 is used to regenerate folate in the body. Most vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms are actually folate deficiency symptoms, since they include all the effects of pernicious anemia and megaloblastosis, which are due to poor synthesis of DNA when the body does not have a proper supply of folic acid for the production of thymine. When sufficient folic acid is available, all known B12 related deficiency syndromes normalize, save those narrowly connected with the vitamin B12-dependent enzymes Methylmalonyl Coenzyme A mutase, and 5-methyltetrahydrofolate-homocysteine methyltransferase (MTR), also known as methionine synthase; and the buildup of their respective substrates (methylmalonic acid, MMA) and homocysteine.

          Link:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12

          Reply
  49. Sorry I don’t believe it. Victoria Boutenko who popularized green smoothies cured her family of several serious illnesses including type one diabetes which doctors say is incurable. and her son who was cured of this has been on the diet for maybe 15 years and the illness did not return.

    She said many of her friends started feeling less healthy after MANY years on the diet and had to add some cooked or animal food; however, she did not want to do that and so she searched for the answer which came from her intense study of nutrition and the diet of our closest relatives the chimp who share 9.4% of our exact gene sequence and whose ability to create new words with sign language by stringing 2 or 3 together and having their own sign language in the wild and the study of their diets convinced her of the need to eat greens the most nutritious food on the planet pound for pound.

    She found the best way to take the large amounts we need was via green smoothies. She added large amounts of this to her diet when she felt after 13 years of excellent health and feeling younger om a 100% raw vegan whole food diet, she and her husband began to feel older with small signs of health concerns.

    After adding the green smoothie to their diet, they felt reversal and either better than when they were 100% raw. In fact, she now states she feels the green smoothies are even more important than the raw veganism. They after time did tend to eat more whole foods rather than gourmet raw vegan foods and that may have also helped them.

    Others like Dr Gabriel Cousens, Dave the raw food trucker, David Wolfe etc also have improvements in health from switching to raw vegan which they still maintain..

    But even common sense shows this if you believe in God. Why would we be the only animal on earth that needs our foods cooked. If so, why did nature not put stoves on trees rather than hope that man would find how to harness fire. What we need is all found in nature. Why do only our animals we fed get ill (not withstanding the damage we do to animals in the wilds with our factory farm runoff,s gm foods, chemicals, etc). why are green plants which contain chlorophyll said to resemble a human blood transfusion so prevalent in nature.

    Nature shows us it is the leaves and above ground fruits and veggies we want..the fruits carry the seeds so the plants die out and animals in nature know to rotate the greens as the plant does not mind you eating some but not all as they put plant poisons like oxalic acid in spinach to force animals to rotate feedings to various types of plant lest they die.

    The below the ground produce like carrots and beets etc contain more sugar and are not designed for us but to attract the microorganisms in the soil that the plants need. I do not feel God would have said in the bible I give you plants for your food and herbs for your medicine if this was not the case. Before the flood people were told to eat plants and afterwards they were permitted to eat animals as the plant life was gone and this is when they went from long long lives to much shorter ones.

    People who used a raw vegan diet years ago often lived to be very old and in near perfect health such as juice originator Dr Norman Walker and Arnold Ehret Walker lived to be 97 and Ehret and his disciples achieve health beyond their wildest dreams but one must realize they were not eating all the manufactured raw vegan foods but plants as they came from the earth.

    Fruits are cleansers and vegetables are builders. Were you eatign too many fruits? How about vegan store products, Also consider that even whole foods can no longer guarantee their foods do not contain gmos

    It is ridiculous to think the Creator in his wisdom would create plants with a vast myriad of health benefits, nutrients, phytochemicals and things yet to be discovered but only make them be of help to us if we have a way to cook them or have access and ability to catch animals. Why would he make plants be of substanance to herbivores and give the carnivores the sharp claws and teeth and speed to catch prey but require us to have stoves or fires to survive in health.

    I think maybe there is more to the picture. People like Boiutenko and family who were eating a very alkalizing diet still were not able to process beets without it turning their stool and urine reddish but after they added the green smoothies they all were able to eat beets with absolutely no color changes indicating they had reached the perfect ph.

    I feel if they try to emulate her and the chimps they need to eat about 40-50% greens in the diet and this is what most animals do that are not meat eaters in the wilds.

    I feel what the girl in the video experienced was too rapid cleansing causing healing crisis’s that were too intense. Generally when this happens one goes to a little cooked or animal to slow down the cleansing and then go back to the raw vegan and back and forth until the cleansing period from years of bad eating is reversed. Even Dr Walker advocated a transitional diet to proceed the change to total raw. I recall a lady doing Arnold Ehret diet thought she was in perfect health..she had been vegetarian for years and attended to her diet yet when she went to the produce diet he advocated.

    She experienced things like skin softer than a baby’s. zero fatigue despite climbing big hills and standing on her feet all day as a waitress feeling as refreshed as when she arrived, personality changes everyone commented on like being so happy, so calm and peaceful etc and a host of other things. Some like Boutenko’s husband and more notably Anne Wigmore have their hair change from gray back to black..Wigmore who founded the Hippocrates Health institute, had dark non-dyed hair into her 80s and would in her profound energy run for several hours a day..they generally report needing just 2-4 hours to sleep.

    Reply
    • oops that should have said chimps share 99.4% of our exact gene sequence in the statement I made (copied below) not 9.4% sorry

      “and the diet of our closest relatives the chimp who share 9.4% of our exact gene sequence and whose ability to create new words with sign language by stringing 2 or 3 together and having their own sign language in the wild and the study of their diets convinced her of the need to eat greens the most nutritious food on the planet pound for pound.”

      Reply
      • Chimpanzies catch members of rival tribes and eat them raw, guts and all. They’ll also eat other small amimals, and bugs.

        Reply
  50. Rachael Jean Harper via Facebook October 4, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    A must see for people who believe that a raw vegan diet will build health. Well said. Thank you.

    Reply
  51. I am waiting until my daughter is weaned and then I will start a raw vegan diet until I feel healed from some issues I’ve been having. I have never felt more alive and balanced when I go raw vegan. I am fixing issues I’ve had from 36 years of a SAD lifestyle, obesity, and thyroid issues. Once I am on the mend I will introduce my favorite- chicken broth and start a GAP style diet. I think my ethnicity (Native American, Spanish, Pacific Islander) effects the way certain foods react in me but I won’t be able to figure it out until I get more balanced. Living raw forever makes people look sickly. In my experience anyways.

    Reply
  52. i hate blanket statements like this. i am not a vegan, but i think a vegan diet suits some people. there are many raw foodists who are among the healthiest people around, like david wolfe. hard to deny- that guy glows! people like clinton, he probably needs some meat. i’d like to see a follow-up article on the overconsumption of meat, esp in this country, and how it affects health and the environment.

    Reply
    • Is there an overconsumption of meat in this country? I have never heard this before… do you have any references for this? To add, there is a huge difference between consuming nitrate/nitrite laden ‘meats’ like hot dogs and bacon to consuming local grassfed meats with their fat. There is no comparison and no studies that I have seen account for this fat. The GAPS diet is based on healthy fats and meats and their broths for healing – I don’t think you can argue with Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride there…
      I think vegetarian diet can be followed long-term and be health. Vegan – not long term, unless supplemented and even there I’d be careful.

      Reply
      • Go see the website for The Harvard School of Nutritional Science. The average American consumes about 12-14 oz of meat a day, when the recommended daily intake is no more than 9 oz (2-3 three ounce portions). The average size for a steak is 8 oz. The average hamburger in a restaurant is 6-8 oz. A chicken breast is typically 6 oz. Looks like overconsumption to me.

        Reply
        • Who recommends the 9 oz?? While I don’t know exactly what the daily intake would be, on the GAPS diet (especially intro) you would probably eat more than 12-14 anyway… For me it would be all or mostly pastured/local meats with no antibiotics, etc. Is that bad if I’m trying to heal and happen to believe in Dr NCM’s protocol? I don’t think so. Long-term I would probably scale down the meats and eat more veggies but meat and fat happen to heal the fastest.

          Reply
    • Wow, that David Wolfe sure sells a lot of products through his site……….people like this I always distrust. They’ve turned their ‘beliefs’ into a business, instead of just teaching and sharing. I find someone like that very hard to take seriously or have much legitimacy. Is he doing it for the money or to enlighten and help people? I think he’s a clever entrepeneur.

      Wow, just looking at his website now. He promotes this Longevity Warehouse? Is this his own online store? It’s very unclear. If so, this guy is definitely in it for the money. Just look at the supplements alone!! I very much doubt they are all raw and they are from so many different brands as well. That website alone tells me this guy’s not the superhero he makes himself out to be. Just cashing in on the popularity of ‘wellness’.

      Plus, if you need all those supplements to stay healthy, then that’s a problem as well – that’s not a raw foodie lifestyle – that’s an eat what I want and let the supplements fill the gaps, kind of lifestyle. Definitely unhealthy. Just like a junk food eater who takes vitamins so he/she thinks they’re covered……..when in fact they are just getting sicker and sicker.

      Reply
      • I don’t know anything about David Wolfe, but I fail to see how him promoting certain products and profiting from that promotion is any different than what is happening on many nutrition websites including this one. The so-called “Resources” page right here on this website is simply a page of ads. Sarah doesn’t suggest any resources unless she is paid to do so. I’m not saying that makes her a bad person. There is nothing wrong with wanting to get paid for the content you provide on your website, but it is silly to pretend what he is doing is any different that what Sarah is doing simply because you agree with her agenda and disagree with his.

        Reply
        • well making money or not people like this do help a lot of people. I personally stay away form making money so the info I give is strictly from the heart and mind and people know my 50 hours a week of helping others free is not done for money.

          However, Victoria Boutenko makes money and has tremendously taught and motivated me. David Wolfe motivated the lady with 5th stage kidney disease so much she gave up animals, starting eating a lot of produce and reversed her kidney disease..due to him and Dave the Rae food trucker and my posts on curezone (neither of the last two do this for any money) she was motivated and hopeful and reversed her disease.

          Here is a lady who ate the SAD die for 60 year, completely unacknowledgable of everything nutrition related and I can bet you when she saw what this new lifestyle did for her healthy, you can be sure she is never going back to the sad diet

          So regardless of if he makes money, I would guess he motivates and indirectly helps a lot of people as do those like Boutenko who cure themselves of serious illnesses and then research so thoroughly we can all benefit form the info in her books.

          Maybe these people would not be able to devote so much time to speaking and helping and motivating etc if they had to work the regular 9-5 job.

          As long as they give some help and info for free unlike people like say Kevin Trudeau or Sam Biser who are after megabucks for their info and care more for moeny than dying and sick people, I don’t care if they make some money off it ..what is more important is do they change and educate people and motivate then to eat better Are they the kind of people who if you approached them personally with an illness, would they take the time to help you.

          I am sure many people do it for free before they start getting burned out and need a little something back and chose it to be in the form of income.

          Reply
    • @ theresa: “That guy glows”. . . yeah, but you don’t know what he really eats. Just because he promotes the vegan lifestyle and sells tons of stuff on his web site, doesn’t mean that’s truly how he lives his life. Remember, this is the internet and you aren’t face to face with him either. If you live in the same town, look him up and track what he eats, otherwise take the whole deal with a grain of salt. None of us knows for positive how ANYONE else truly eats, we only know what they say they eat. Isn’t that true? It’s true of me, it’s true of you and it’s true of everyone who posts here, right?

      Reply
    • 10 bucks says Bill Clinton is eating The Standard Vegan Diet of processed meat replacements, too much white pasta, and too many refined grains. That is NOT healthy vegan eating. That’s not whole foods vegan eating.

      Reply
  53. oops-meant to say that the vegetarian myth was written by a former hardcore vegan…and after reading a few more of the comments above-I highly recommend it to those people-you wants facts and stats-this book has them. :-)

    Reply
  54. I just today finished reading The Vegetarian Myth; a former hard core vegan. Great book-though I’m not a vegetarian (did it for a year about 10 years ago-didn’t like my lack of energy); I just hope I can get my vegetarian friends to read it. Hard though-they are so steadfast in their beliefs.
    Good post!

    Reply
  55. I got Nourishing Traditions and subscribed to this site, and reluctantly began consuming local, grassfed animal products because all the arguments from your multiple sites, including yours, as well as the WAP sources, seemed to make sense. The thing is, before, as a vegetarian, I felt fine! But now after all the milk, butter, etc. I feel much worse. The problem with the NT and WAP sources is that there is no diet that suits everyone. And it gets turned in to a nasty, my-diet-is-better-than-yours full on assault. The bottom line is, consuming animal products is one way to find health, but I feel that my since-childhood aversion to meat is my body’s way of telling me to avoid it for my health. And when I do, I feel MUCH better. Trust what your body tells you, either way. We are not robots. And there are many many vegetarians and vegans who are healthy. It’s really silly and insulting to say that all people who don’t eat animals are fraile, scrawny, nutrient-starved beings. I mean, really. Once again there is a murky line between your personal opinion and researched, documented, backed up facts. I am unsubscribing. Thanks for the recipes I have been able to use.

    Reply
      • The fact that this book is published by the Weston A. Price Foundation, and it was first published over 70 years ago, sends up all kinds of red flags. Nutritional science and biochemistry has come a long way. Not to mention that the ways of going about anthropological research has changed A LOT since the early 20th century (and this book is largely based on anthropological research). When it’s endorsed by an entity like The Harvard School of Nutritional Science, then I’ll take a second look at giving it some credibility. As is stands now, I was thoroughly unimpressed. It doesn’t prove or convince me of anything.

        Reply
        • I support you completely. Humans were not meant to eat meat (see my reply on how we are similar to herbivores and how our digestive system is clearly not meant to handle meat). We can get all our nutrients from plants and there are many credible sources supporting this. This article is a completely uninformed opinion from someone who does not know anything about nutrition and taxonomy. Here is some information on raw vegans getting vitamin A. One point, how do animals get vitamin A? FROM PLANTS!!! It’s true that the preformed active type of this vitamin is found only in animal foods. But plants are abundant in vitamin A precursors like beta-carotene. In fact, these provitamin A compounds are important enough that the USDA measures vitamin A content of foods as “retinol activity equivalents (RAE),” which includes both preformed vitamin A and the compounds that the body turns into vitamin A. There is no separate RDA or recommendation for animal-derived pre-formed vitamin A.
          You can meet your vitamin A requirement for the day by drinking just one-quarter cup of carrot juice or eating a cup of kale or spinach. Other foods that make significant contributions are sweet potatoes, cantaloupe, and dark orange winter squashes, including pumpkin. A word of caution though: Earlier assessments of retinol activity equivalents in plant foods over-estimated amounts. This is because more recent data show that conversion rates of the vitamin A precursors are lower than previously believed. As a result, vitamin A is a nutrient that deserves some attention in vegan diets. This doesn’t mean you can’t get enough; it does mean that it’s a good idea to make sure you eat vitamin A rich foods every day.

          Reply
          • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
            Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist November 27, 2011 at 10:36 pm

            Are you denying the canine teeth in your own mouth staring back at you in the mirror? WAKE UP!

  56. After watching the video I’m guessing that she made a very common raw food mistake of consuming the majority of her calories from fat. If you are raw foodist there are only 2 major sources of calories – fruit or fat. So if you are thinking you’re eating a lot of greens and not a lot of fruit – then you’re most definitely eating a lot of fat even if it’s hidden in dressings, or the added nuts, seeds, pates etc. Add your calories up in Nutridiary or DailyBurn.com and you’ll see. When you consume the majority of your calories from fat you’ll crash and burn on the raw food diet. Goto 30Bananasaday.com to learn how to do rawfood the right way!

    Good luck.

    -Robert

    Reply
    • yes my fat intake went way up when I started eating 85% or so produce mainly veggies due to diabetes. It is hard to make it all palatable without dressing, raw nuts and so forth

      Reply
      • Plants are passive organisms without the ability to move, think, and react (for the most part). They must employ different tactics to ensure propagation, and they generally have to rely on outside forces to spread their seed. And so various methods are “devised” to dissuade consumption long enough for the seed to get to where it’s going. Nuts have those tough shells, and grains have the toxic anti-nutrients, lectins, gluten, and phytates. They are not healthy for humans! Do your research!

        Reply
  57. Renita Krahe Balent via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Humans ARE supposed to eat meat?!

    Well, imagine that! Yes, humans are omnivores. Bon appetit! :)

    Reply
    • Human are NOT omnivores! Our bodies are not meant to eat meat!
      Meat-eaters: have claws
      Herbivores: no claws
      Humans: no claws

      Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue

      Herbivores: perspire through skin pores

      Humans: perspire through skin pores

      Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
      Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
      Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

      Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
      Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
      Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

      Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
      Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
      Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

      Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
      Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
      Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

      Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
      Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
      Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
      Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)

      Reply
      • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
        Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist November 27, 2011 at 10:37 pm

        Wow. Humans are not omnivores? Why do we have omnivore teeth then? You are denying the existence of what is right in your own mouth. Complete vegan brainwashing.

        Reply
  58. While I don’t think a 100% raw vegan diet is healthy, a whole foods vegan diet certainly is. Those who say otherwise don’t have all the information on the lifestyle. My sister has been a whole foods vegan for close to 15 years now, and she’s the healthiest person I know. Tons of energy, great sleep, great muscle tone, etc. etc. She doesn’t suffer from an mineral deficiencies at all. If you’re just eating greens, fruits, and veggies, well then of course you’re going to suffer nutritionally. The most important aspects of a whole foods vegan diet is the sprouting of grains, legumes, and seeds and fermenting foods. My sister always has kimchi in her fridge, along with coconut water kefir, homemade Kombucha, and Rejuvilac. These two processes ensure you get all the minerals you need and that they are in a form the body can use. She is also quite liberal in her consumption of healthy fats: virgin coconut oil, whole nuts and seeds, wholes olives, whole flaxseed, avocados, chia seeds, etc. There are 4 keys to a healthy vegan diet: 1. It must be whole foods, nothing processed; 2. Grains, seeds, legumes must be sprouted; 3. Fermented foods must be a staple, and 4: healthy fats need to be consumed in whole food form daily.

    I doubt this woman really committed to those 4 tenets for any length of time. Still have doubts? Go see Robyn Openshaw at http://www.greensmoothiegirl.com who has been a 90% whole foods vegan (the only animal product she consumes is raw milk kefir) for close to 20 years.

    Why not just admit that there are different ways to live an optimal healthy lifestyle? Not everyone needs animal foods to achieve ideal health and longevity.

    Reply
    • Well, of course she’ll be healthy if she eats raw milk kefir! Raw kefir is one of the best sources fat-soluble vitamins there are!

      Reply
      • Did I read this right? What’s the difference between ‘cocnut water kefir’ and ‘raw milk kefir’? Do they mean the same thing? Goodness knows I do not understand the fermenting process well enough.

        Reply
        • Kefir refers to the type of culture being used, not just the end product. Kefir grains happily ferment coconut water just as well as milk. They also make a pretty decent Rejuvilac. People abstaining from dairy will substitute with coconut water.

          Reply
        • “coconut water kefir” is what was said, not “raw milk kefir”. obvious difference that was so easily glided over to act knowledgeable.

          this claim “A, D, and K2 — only found in animal foods” needs some major backing up. just because someone makes a post and says that does not make it true, and this post is far from enlightening and informative as most comments seem to proclaim. vitamin A & D only found in animal foods??? how uninformed are the readers here?

          the vibe i’m getting is one of self-justification by seeing someone else say something they want to feel good about.. just like when some new “research” comes along and says eating pizza is good for you. yay now we can all just keep eating pizza all the time… actually it’s tomatoes that are good for you, and you’re doing it wrong.

          a former raw vegan’s testimony is pretty poor evidence to point at and say “veganism BAD”, especially in conjunction with simply untrue claims about sources for particular nutrients. i don’t care what you people eat but it sounds like there’s a lack of legitimate research involved.

          Reply
          • You do realize that there is a broad spectrum of carotenoids that work together to generate Vitamin A, not just beta carotene? Combined together, it’s a very efficient system in the body. If you consume a wide range of dark leafy green veggies, your good to go. Go ask any biochemist to explain to you how carotenoids work.

            As for plant sources of vitamin D: white mushrooms. Combine them with calcium rich leafy greens for the best absorption.
            Also, you can get Vitamin D from the sun. That’s a no-brainer. All you need is 15 minutes of sun exposure. Most vegans have no problem taking a D supplement if they need to. They would rather do that than contribute to the killing or exploitation of an animal.

      • The raw milk kefir is not consumed daily, a few times a month at most. It’s only consumed as a natural source of B12, which the body stores very well and doesn’t need everyday. When she can’t source raw milk kefir (she DOES NOT consume it unfermented), she happily goes without. She travels a lot, so she goes without quite a bit. This is hardly the same thing as consuming meat, eggs, and dairy everyday. Most of her diet is still raw vegan.

        Reply
        • good post Ben and thank you Roxanne for your interesting post and the 4 points. I will keep that in mind,

          I have a Harsch crock but do not ferment enough and need to sprout more. I got some yeast on the top an that made me quit for a while making these fermented things.

          Reply
        • There you are. You have admitted it! THERE ARE NO PLANT SOURCES OF B12. Clean and simple. Humans need to consume B12, you can’t get it from plants, therefore, humans are meant to eat animal products! And yes, many people require less than others, but it is still required in the human body.

          It’s ridiculous to say that humans don’t need to eat animal products, but then go buy some synthetic, isolated B12 capsules and iron tablets in plastic bottles that would NEVER be found in nature, or say that when someone eats fermented milk once in a while that is somehow vegan. I fail to see how eating animal products once in a while is different then eating them every day (besides the fact that you’re consuming more nutrients. I’m talking about the moral aspect). It’s like saying: “Well, So-and-so only shoplifts once and a while, and she never steals anything too valuable. It’s not like she does it every DAY.”

          Hey, I’m happy for her if she can be healthy eating very little animal products! It sounds like she does a good job eating her plant foods properly; sprouting, fermenting, lots of good fats, and the like. That’s what works for her, but it’s not going to work for most people. I don’t by any means ENJOY killing things to eat, I was actually vegetarian for several years. I’m the girl who carefully catches wolf spiders and beetles and cockroaches to let them out of the house rather than squish them, and I’ll never kill things unless I have to, but eating both animal AND plant products is how my God-given body stays vibrant and healthy.

          Reply
          • Okay, some people here need to really look at the science. Stopping people from become healthier is not the right things to do. Yes, there are no plant based sources of B12. Where do animals get their B12? Bacteria! Where should humans be getting B12? Bacteria! Humans used to have bacteria producing B12 for them but because od changes in farming practices and many other factors we must rely on other sources of B12. Do your research before you post!

          • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist
            Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist November 27, 2011 at 10:40 pm

            Why are vegans encouraged to take vitamin B12 supplements then? If your vegan diet is so natural and complete, you should be able to subsist entirely on vegan foods for health.

          • do you hear yourself? most americans should be supplementing things. do you actually know what b12 is? it’s a bacteria. the reason why animal foods have it is because they eat food with the bacteria and it becomes concentrated in their meat, as does the hormones, toxins, and other disgustingness does. it doesn’t matter where you get your b12 from.

          • B12 is vegan, considering it actually comes from bacteria in the soil and not from an animal. The animal eats the bacteria when eating plants and stores the excess B12 in their muscles, this is what you access when eating meat. It doesn’t actually come from the animal per se.

          • B12 is not found in plant sources.. Even in meat products it’s bioavailability is low. Vegans/vegetarians are encouraged to take B12 supplements in order to avoid the side effects of deficiency, which can be lethal. I personally don’t encourage the use of supplements, but in the case of particular diets or disease states, the supplementation (in proper amounts) can be life saving.

          • Exactly, and it’s not the only supplement they need either.
            No way in hell would this diet have worked in any other situation then in modern day society where you can go to a store and buy some pills..the same society they point fingers at.

  59. We all need to stop being so dogmatic about the the right way to eat. There is no one right way to eat. We are all different and have different needs, beliefs, etc. When we put ourselves into these boxes of vegan, paleo, macrobiotic or whatever other label that we identify with, we are limiting ourselves and those around us.

    No matter what kind of diet that someone eats, you are going to find people that it works for and people that it doesn’t work for. We need to be accepting of that and find out what works for us as individuals.

    Reply
    • I agree, Mike. I wish someone would respond to my post earlier. Everyone keeps bashing strict veganism but are not talking nearly enough about the poisoned meat that over 90% of our population eats. Factory farming needs an overhaul! Why aren’t people screaming about that?

      Reply
        • From what I have read, the growing infertility crisis is linked with GMO foods that are in up to 90% of the foods in the store.

          I feel since far more women and girls are eating these gmos foods and in fact, unless one has eaten 100% organic food for the last 15 years, we all are eating them is far more of a big deal that needs to be addressed.

          Most people on a vegan diet, including young women tend to be much more knowledgeable of nutrition than the average women in America.

          As someone above discussed the big problem of factory farming and eating this horrific source of meat that many people do not even think about or realize or for those unable to afford organic animal foods which in this declining economy are many.They probably would be better off going vegan and a lot of raw than continuing to eat this dangerous food seeing the filthy slaughterhouse conditions.

          I spoke with a lady who was 60 years old and she said she was never taught anything about nutrition. She was in 5th stage kidney disease and in desperation trying to avoid dialysis that the doctor pushed for months, she turned to the web and found curezone, David Wolfe Dave the raw food trucker which all inspired her and so she changed her diet.

          She had very little money but did not eat any animal foods and ate a lot of fresh produce like grapes and cabbage and other cruciferous veggies everyday etc, pumpkin seeds daily ands things like this–mostly just foods and one supplement–and and she reversed her kidney disease.

          The doctor was so stunned he said he had never had a reversal like that in 35 years of practice. I spoke to her personally on the phone in order to get diets of her diet and posted it on curezone in the 30 steps to healing kidney disease thread if people want to know what she ate.

          Here is a women who is typically even the sad diet who changed and had a miracle.How many more people like this are out there. Dave the Raw food trucker also cured his kidney disease, colon cancer, his diabetes (in 4 days) and lost 225 by eating a highly nutritious whole food, vegan, 100% raw diet.

          Nearly all of our greatest natural healers were very ill and cured themselves and then many others primarily with food and herbs etc Anne Wigmore ever got sick ion this diet many decades and she helped so many dying people to heal. So did Dr Richard Schulze help hundreds of thousands who advocated a raw vegan diet for the terminal ill and incurable diseases with great success. Most of these healers used juice fasting and juices. nearly vegetarian (Dr christopher a supporter of the mucusless diet allowed once a week a little clean chicken or fish and cottage cheese. Dr Bernard Jenson (live to about 100) allowed for some veal joint broth and a few things but plant foods particularly fruits and veggies were always used in these diets that cured people of diabetes, heart disease, especially cancer etc.

          On hacres.com are thousands of testimonies of incredible healings. To deprive people of that potential healing by making them afraid of the non animal diet is not fair to the sick. or even those who might prevent becoming sick.

          I became a vegan 50% raw 2 plus years ago due to diabetes and all of my a1c tests in the last years have been normal (6 tests) when they were as high as 600 plus and mostly in the 300-400 range prior and I was on a diet then that was 90% vegetarian and 85% vegan consisting of free range, organic meats, wild caught fish. free-range dairy and eggs (mostly) lots of produce, whole grains. legumes and not much junk.

          Having been studying nutrition or 30 years, I also have been shopping out of health food stores that long so I was not eating anything close to the SAD and still got diabetes etc. I also have hope if I can not fix my other things that I might be able to do so by tightening up the diet and going a lot more raw.

          Having hope is crucial to people with serious disease and this diet and the many healings from it offer that hope to people.

          I do not feel fanatical but changed due to health concerns..maybe if I am on it a long long time and feel ill I know I can always back off a little. but right now I feel confident following these great healers and people who were really sick and seeing how my body does..so far nothing negative in the 28 months I have been on it.

          Reply
      • Why aren’t you screaming about it by doing your own blog? If this is an important issue to you, and it obviously is, then why not start a blog that features this information?

        Reply
      • Amen Shari! I am amazed at the incorrect information that is being shared here….on so many levels! In the area where I live factory farmed meat is the ONLY option. I

        Reply
    • I couldn’t agree more on the boxes! People get so caught up in them that they won’t take the time to figure out what really works for their body. Everyone is not the same and some people are going to do better one diet while others do better on another. The most important thing is to get all the processed, industrial foods out of your diet. After that, it’s really just a matter of finding the optimum diet for you.

      Also, the 2% number is actually way too high. Vegans are only about 1% of the population at most, and of those, far less than half are raw vegans.

      Reply
      • I would guess even less were vegan raw foodists though it is gradually spreading. I do have a friend I meet years ago in health food store who insists she needs meat to feel healthy.

        I think if one keeps the animal low and used very healthy sources and has the rest of the diet good, they may experience great health. Those refined foods are now up to 90% gmos.

        The china study said that those keeping it at 10% had all the same benefits as the vegans. I do think raw may be the real key and when one is eating a high plant diet whether exclusively or not and interested in health food enough to use excellent sources, then they probably will be eating much more raw food than the general populace.

        Also I would imagine in ?china in the china study they did not have gmo foods and far less processed foods in their diet as well.

        WE cannot ignore the fact that some of these healthy people were eating 1-10% animal foods, all were probably eating far less processed foods than Americans and most all were probably eating a lot of produce which tends to be key in healing people and studies. Neither can we ignore the fact that most of the people in this study were eating a plant based diet.

        Lots of plants particularly produce and especially green leafy veggies, lots of raw and little of the sad diet will be of help to most I would suspect.

        Reply
        • The China Study was flawed. That has been demonstrated again and again. I agree with the idea that even 10% of the diet being quality meat from good sources can probably be enough, but folks like to be extreme, and when surrounded by other vegans, many who bash meat, a lot of folks will cave and go whole vegan out of peer pressure.

          I have never understood why vegans cannot understand that a completely vegan diet for the entire planet is not sustainable. Where are all of those beans and veggies going to grow? Vegetable farming takes up space, and depletes our soils.

          Reply
          • please explain, with links to proof, how the China Study is flawed. I have never heard this before, and would like to read more about what you are saying.

  60. This post, I must say, is very sad. It’s a testimony to the denial and guilt that meat eaters have, always looking for a way to justify the violent destruction of life and our ecosystem for the tastes they crave. Well, I’m not letting you get away with it. Meat and animal food is an addiction, which only leads to disease in the body. This has been proven over and again by so many researchers, many of whom TODAY are CURING cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and many other chronic diseases with raw veganism. Eyeballs? Organs? Blood? For healthy teeth? Come on, people. Does it really make sense to you that in order to absorb the fat soluble vitamins in fruits and veggies, you have to eat organs, blood, etc.? Tell that to the largest, strongest animals in the world…who are not just vegetarians but also vegans. Or, you might try telling Dr. Atkins, the founder of the famous diet with his name….but…oops, you can’t…because he died of heart disease!

    Reply
    • Dr. Atkins did not die of heart disease. I get so sick of seeing this statement from people who don’t bother to find out the truth.

      Preach whatever way of eating you want, but I’m thinking that limiting ourselves to just one way of eating is not going to stand us in good stead at some point.

      If you people who lean to veganism or vegetarianism think you can get by without animal fats and such, do so. But stop acting like it’s the only way to eat a “clean” diet. I also hate that term because to the veggie people it means only to eat veggies is a clean diet and to eat animal sourced foods are not clean. That’s a load of hooey.

      I choose to eat a varied diet because I think it’s much more healthy for my body. Also, my DH and I eat seasonally, too. That includes meats as well as veggies and fruits. I don’t can much food anymore because our kids are gone and it’s just DH and me, but I freeze quite a bit of food (prepared) because of our weird schedules.

      Here’s a link with some information about seasonal eating:
      http://www.sustainabletable.org/shop/seasonal/

      Reply
      • gee been veggie for 25 yrs and have yet to do as you acuse. yet I see meat eaters acuse and point figure all the time. Feel guilty about eating animals? if not then stop knocking us. that simple

        Reply
    • Dr. Atkins died from a traumatic brain injury when he slipped and fell on ice, not from heart disease. You might try fact checking before you pass around another urban legend (and use it as the crux of your argument).

      Reply
    • I’d like to see the evidence/research where you can prove that people are curing cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc… with veganism. Let’s see the facts.

      You don’t have to eat organs and blood to absorb the fat soluble vitamins……you need…….fat.

      Animals that are herbivores have a different make-up than humans. We were designed to be omnivores. For example – Cows have 4 chambers in their stomach to process the grasses they eat. The grasses are indigestible to them until their specialized stomach process it.
      Humans can’t do that. So, you can’t say that because all a cow needs is raw plant food (grass), then by definition all humans need is raw plant food too. That type of reasoning just doesn’t work.

      Humans and animals have similarities, sure. But to say we can all process foods the same way is simply and obviously untrue. To say otherwise is ignorant and completely dicredits you.

      Reply
    • Thank you! This article seems to be all about bashing veganism from every angle, and is attracting the usual level of mainstream response. I agree it’s guilt-driven – people have to find excuses to justify their actions, especially when so many people are finding the nutritional wonders of a natural (aka vegan) diet. I think someday it will be common sense, as it already is for many people. In the meantime, people are very motivated to bash it and spread misinformation.

      Having been a vegan for almost 20 years, I find that this kind of disinformation never stops, regardless of what facts are found. Nevertheless, it is disappointing to see the level of ignorance in the article as well as many of the comments. I especially hate to see ignorant people advising others on nutrition of all things. Readers beware.

      Reply
    • strongest animals? Lions eat organs. In fact when they were first introduced into captivity they were unable to bread. No one could figure out why they couldn’t breed. Then the were studied in the wild, and it was discovered that they eat organs (in fact they eat them first!). Once organ meats were introduced to the lions in captivity- they were able to successfully breed! So to infer that big strong animals don’t eat organs- is just not accurate
      Nicole\’s last post: Borscht

      Reply
  61. I also experimented with meatless and vegetarian diets in different parts of my life, and my health always deteriorated. I talk to countless clients who have had a similar experience of feeling great initially on the raw vegan diet, but that over time experience a sharp decline in health due to a lack of healthy fats and proteins which supply the fat-soluble vitamins desperately needed by the body to absorb many nutrients. I’m grateful for everyone who blogs about this subject and gives testimonials to how going back to an animal-product based diet can save health.

    Reply
  62. Thank you for this post! I have wondered how I can talk to my raw friends about their diet so thank you Maria. I went to check out her website and I was disappointed to see that she does not say any of this on thegreensmoothiechallenge.com. She does mention it is a cleansing diet but doesn’t say anything about the need for animal fats. I hope she is brave enough to communicate this message on her website!!

    Reply
  63. Though I do agree with the pitfalls of strict veganism, I really do wish everyone would spend MORE time and effort educating people of the dangers of eating the meat that over 90% of the population consume! I know that this site and many others DO promote sourcing meat from local farmers that pasture their animals and feed them the kind of food that God intended. However, why are all of these blogs and sites spending more time bashing vegans instead of speaking out to those that eat all this poisoned, unsustainable meat from large agra farms?

    There seems to be the assumption that, of course, EVERYONE does or can afford to eat the “good” meat. WRONG!! The dairy that I source my raw milk sells beef and chicken. The beef is super expensive and they only sell their chickens once a year in the early fall.

    I don’t mind pointing out the pitfalls of veganism, but seriously folks….you’re only preaching to about 1-2% of the population. We should be shouting from the rooftops daily about the current state of our poisoned meat and the unsustainable way that these animals are raised!

    Please!!! Start preaching about things that the meat eaters need to hear too! (sorry, I don’t mean to sound like I’m shouting, but I’m really passionate about this subject!)

    Reply
    • I’m sure Sarah has posted before about eating local pastured meats, local raw dairy, pastured eggs, etc. I think the basic idea is not to eat SAD but eat cleanly. I know some eat vegetarian for religious reasons and that diet can be healthy but I can’t imagine a vegan diet being healthy other than short-term. There are just too many things missing there. One argument that always resonated with me is that there are no traditional cultures that have survived while eating a vegan diet. Nuff said.

      Reply
      • NOT enough said. I agree that strict veganism can be unhealthy for the long term. I am NOT a vegan.

        My point is….I think every time that someone bashes veganism (less than 2% of the population) they should also add how detrimental eating factory farmed meat is to our bodies. That would actually reach over 90% of the population.

        Hmmmm…..try to enlighten 1-2% of the population or 90% of the population??? Sounds like a no-brainer to me!

        Reply
        • I think Sarah tries to enlighten everyone. She may come over as ‘blunt’ but she always has research to back things up. I don’t think she honestly meant to bash 2% of the population. She was just responding to something that happened in her community…

          Reply
        • Hi Shari – You mention in a later post that you wish someone would reply to this post, so I will oblige you.
          Have you read most of the posts on this blog? Not ALL of the posts address negative aspects of vegetarianism/veganism. In fact, I would guess that it’s only about 2% of the posts. (The posts, not the comments made by others). By your reasoning, that would be exactly right. Sarah blogs about a huge range of health-related topics, including factory-farmed meats, risks of vaccinations, organic gardening challenges, exercise plans, benefits of cod liver oil and, my personal favorite, the dramatic, positive effects of a traditional, nourishing diet on the behavior of a friend’s children (wink, wink, Sarah).
          You say you really do wish people would spend MORE time and effort education people about the dangers of eating factory farmed meat. I read this blog every day that I am able and I would NOT do so if 90% of the posts were about factory farmed meat.
          I would also suggest that people who don’t care about ingesting factory farmed meat (or organic vs. conventional foods, or vegan vs. vegetarian vs. animal-based diets) do not visit this site more than once, anyway.
          So – try to enlighten 2% or 90%? A no-brainer? This blog has the capacity to reach 100% of the population. But it’s just a blog. Maybe we need an ad on during the Super Bowl, explaining the dangers of factory farmed meats. Perhaps you could start a daily blog to raise funds in support of that effort ($3 million to reach 111 million people for 30 seconds). Unfortunately, you would only be reaching about 30% of the population. Also, noone would read that blog.
          Finally, thehealthyhomeeconomist.com has reached me and my family – a mere 1/777% of the population. Her blog has improved the quality of the lives of myself, my husband and my children. For that, I am incredibly grateful. I hope she does not heed your request to change her blog to suit you. It suits us just fine.

          Reply
      • I once read in the anthropologist Richard Leakey’s book that he met a tribe which I think were in the Pacific region who had never eaten animals as they regarded them as their brothers and sisters. There were photos of their children who certainly were not thin. I borrowed this book from the library in 1989 so I don’t remember all the details but this tribe were at least vegeterian- I cannot remember if it was mentioned if they had eggs or animal milk. Leakey was impressed with the tribe’s health.
        I myself am almost vegan- the only non vegan food I eat are feta cheese and honey and I eat a high proportion of raw food- my meals are generally salads with houmous, fruit smoothies, nuts, quinoa, sprouts. I also have lots of fresh juices and some coconut milk in my smoothies.
        I have been vegeterian since I was 18 and I’m now 44 and am told constantly I look about 28. I have been on wholefoods for 2-3 years and have been doing more raw the last year or so. I feel very well.

        Reply
    • Amen! I am so tired of all the vegan bashing that appears on NT and Paleo blogs. It is such a very, very small portion of the population (raw vegan is even more rare). At the same time so little is said to the millions and millions who are eating factory farmed meats. Most of these blogs do mention that eating 100% pastured beef and pastured pork and chicken is optimal, but they don’t spend much time discussing very real dangers of eating conventionally produced meats. Personally, if I truly couldn’t afford local, pastured meats, I’d go vegetarian and use my food budget to get the best quality eggs, dairy, fruits and veggies I could find. IMO it would be far healthier than eating meats which were unnaturally forced to eat GMO grains and a steady diet of antibiotics.

      Sending that video to vegan friends will not sway them; it will only serve to annoy them and leave them less open to seeing the positive changes you are making in your own life. If I sent you a video from a former NT follower who has decided that NT had ruined her health and she now eats a vegan diet would you be swayed? Exactly.

      Let’s stop the vegan bashing and focus instead on sharing the importance of eating truly naturally produced whole foods with the millions and millions of people who are still buying their meats from the local supercenter.

      Reply
      • Also, while pastured meat is more healthful and sustainable, as well as more affordable than most people think: All other things being equal, someone who simply avoids the neolithic agents of disease will still enjoy better health on average than someone who does not.

        Reply
        • Industrially produced meats *are* a neolithic agent of disease. Cows were never meant to eat grains–and certainly not the GMO grains they are fed in feed lots. Pigs and chickens were never meant to live their entire lives confined to the indoors eating only GMO grains.

          Reply
          • I stand by my statement, while defining “neolithic agents of disease” as grains, legumes, sweeteners and “vegetable” oils.

      • It may be a very small portion of the population that eats a vegan or raw vegan diet- but it is held up in the mainstream media and society as the “optimal” diet to strive for. That is why people argue against it. Not because so many are eating that way- but because so many are touting the so-called “positive” benefits.

        Reply
    • I read Denise Minger’s “critique” – she has trouble, IMPO, deciding which side of the fence she REALLLLLLY wants to be on. She supports veganism, basically, but at the same time supports animal foods. IOW, she supports eating the way it should be. But people aren’t getting that take-home message, especially if they only read the first few paragraphs, which a LOT of people do. They skim and don’t get into the heart of the article, and I’ve had a couple of people say “hey, I think she’s changed her mind about an animal based diet. At least that’s the way I read it. She’s very supportive of the vegan crowd. Not much of a critique if you ask me”. Well, mmmm – k. When I read it I sorta got the same feeling. She didn’t want to step on toes and she didn’t.

      Reply
      • She doesn’t have any trouble with anything. I have no idea where you got that impression. It’s clear to me that she supports truth and honesty above all else, and goes where the science takes her. Thousands of outraged vegan toes were stepped on, to the point where she was denounced across the entire net as an imaginary creation of WAPF, a paid shill for the meat industry, you name it. She produced the best critique of The China Study since Chris Masterjohn’s, along with numerous follow ups until Colin Campbell slunk off with his tail between his legs. Her takedown of Forks Over Knives is just as rigorously constructed. I look forward with great interest to her upcoming book dismantling the USDA dietary recommendations.

        Reply
        • @damaged justice: Then you need to reread the article. She falls all over herself basically apologizing to the vegan community. She says “I kind of loved this movie” and a lot of people stopped reading right there, or at least the people I talked to because they thought she was in favor of veganism. I tried to explain that they should keep reading.

          I, too, look forward to her dismanteling the USDA. But her style better change because people are getting the wrong impression of her “critiques”.

          Reply
          • Either you have a different opinion, or you’re the who who “needs to reread the article”.

      • And if people “skim and don’t get into the heart of the article”, that’s no fault of Denise Minger, but the fault of a lazy reader.

        Reply
  64. Funny this came up today as I am starting a fast today to try and cleanes out the years of asthma meds I’ve been on. You can bet I’ll be going back to my NT diet after I break it! In spite of being on this diet for 5 years now I still have those rigid lines in my nails and some asthma Sure would like to see these go away eventually!

    Reply
  65. Absolutely- there is a reason that a raw vegan diet (like the Gerson therapy) is recommended to people when they have cancer (as in tumors, not blood cancers)- it’s to radically clean the body and starve the underlying parasites that are causing the problem. However, it IS a starving diet, a cleaning diet, and it will not build health at all. It is a tool to be used when needed and then allow a quick return to nourishing, traditional foods, rich in animal proteins and fats (from healthy pastured animals) to rebuild the body and nourish it for life.

    When I was so desperate to improve my health, I went to a raw vegan diet because I’d found books that spoke what I knew to be true- that the Standard American Diet was killing me. However, it really went off the rails when it discussed that animal products were the problem- no CONVENTIONAL animal products were the problem. Cooking was not the problem, but consuming every COOKED and FRIED like most modern diets include, without FERMENTED live foods, inclusion of fruits and veggies on the diet (more than corn and potato). Anyway, I didn’t know about Nourishing Traditions then and my husband and I went raw vegan for a few months- and it was horrible. I didn’t feel well, there was too much agave nectar in our diet, and nothing was warm or satisfying. It felt so unnatural, so soul-less. After all, we’ve been gathering around the campfire cooking meat for a really, really long time- millions of years- and this just eating salad and zucchini noodles and nut butters and superfood shakes really goes against that.

    Long story short, it was through my foray into a vegan diet (raw vegan!) that brought me to Nourishing Traditions and once I read the first 60 pages, I knew I was home. It was truth that shook me to my core, and it was literally what saved my life. Real, traditional foods are healing and nourishing and it’s exactly what we’re supposed to eat for lifelong health.
    Amy Love @ Real Food Whole Health\’s last post: Fresh Bites Friday September 30, 2011

    Reply
  66. Amber Moon via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 11:35 am

    “So eat always from the table of God: the fruits of the trees, the grain and grasses of the field, the milk of beasts, and the honey of bees. For everything beyond these is of Satan”

    …there is no Biblical scripture that says this..This phrase is from The Essene Gospel of Peace, Book One that talks about worshipping “mother earth” intepreted and held by the Vatican

    Christ ate lamb or goat to keep the Passover and we also know he ate fish..

    Reply
    • I would wager that the meats back then were far different than the ones we have now even organic due to the environment.

      The Bible does say I give you herbs for your food and plants for your medicine

      In Genesis it said plants shall be as meat for us and not until after the flood did he allow for meat due to lack of vegetation.

      Not co-incidentally perhaps the ages went for the 900s to the 100s and under.

      Jesus was respectful to his mother and gracious to the host and would have eaten the foods she prepared which in all likelihood were the foods of the average Jewish person of the day; however, I once read they were of the essence sect where primarily vegetarian was used.

      Just cause he occasionally ate clean, organic animals food does not mean necessarily that this was his steady diet. Jesus was more focused perhaps on the spiritual lessons to us than the physical ones but I can guess he would not be advocating for using gmo and refined and irradiated foods and fast foods etc were he alive today.

      Reply
      • Actually the real historical Jesus taught that animal sacrifice and eating meat was edited into the Torah (FYI I am Jewish also btw). We Jews who are educated on Torah matters are well aware that Hashem never required animal sacrifice and that it was edited in later (See Jeremiah 8:8)

        In fact the Ben Asher Torah Codex has Hashem clearly forbidding the eating of Meat to Moses unlike modern edited Bibles.

        Jesus did infact teach a LIVING FOODS VEGETARIAN DIET according to the Essene Gospel of Peace which was locked in Secret Vatican Archives until the 1930′s. The Clementine Homilies also supports this. (Church history also records that the earliest followers of Jesus including his brothers and the Apostles were all vegetarians!)

        Of course you can imagine if you think about it why Christianity covers up the fact that animal sacrifice was never required also!

        (Folks go read the Dead Sea Scrolls, Paul of Tarsus was in fact the ENEMY of the Jesus movement!)

        Reply
  67. Barbara Lettelier Fitch via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Tina, Yes, I was simply agreeing that is was a good food documentary. If one chooses to have a total plant food base diet that is great. I think people should know that some of us that took that route had to go back to meat. My own body was having trouble asborbing enough amino acids, minerals etc from just plants for my body to absorb all the vitamins and minerals it needed. :) PEACE!

    Reply
  68. I think you’re right, Sarah, with your statement which says something to the effect of raw vegans NOT changing their ways. They won’t. You get people like Mikey Adams touting raw veganism and everything else raw (except milk – he doesn’t use dairy products, of course, even though they are best used raw) and people buy it hook, line and sinker. Even smart people like former Pres. Clinton, as you pointed out. I saw a photo of him recently – he looks terrible and to me he seems to have aged a lot in the past year. Of course, he’s not getting any younger, but I think some of it or maybe a lot of it has to do with his newly adopted eating habit. I’m pretty sure the poor dude is on probably 3 – 4 medications, too. It’s a set-up for disaster.

    I have a friend who keeps asking me if cooking foods diminishes the nutritional value. I’ve done the best I can to explain it to her, but if you have something I could add I’d be grateful. She’s convinced that if she makes beef vegetable soup she should not let it simmer for hours because the nutrition will be gone. Arrggghh.

    Reply
      • After all of his heart troubles, I don’t think LOOKS were what was most important to him. He says he FEELS tons better, with more energy and mental clarity, etc. THAT’S what is most important, over LOOKS. How unkind to even mention that.

        Reply
        • @ Dawn: I haven’t heard him say a WORD about how he feels. And yes, looks are always a telltale sign of how he really feels. Those suitcases under his eyes are unmistakeable. I was not being unkind, I was being truthful. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

          Reply
          • The pictures I saw he looks great and younger. And the reason he went on it is to help him not rebuild plague and help his heart disease and the vegan diet is very good for that.

            Another thing of help to reverse plague is (organic) cayenne (as hot as you can take it–preferably in the form of tincture or tea (use distilled water for all teas) and raw garlic (must be raw -3 or more cloves a day) which together reverse plague. Also take organic ginger tincture for the capillaries.

            He is not a raw foodist to my knowledge and he very rarely does eat fish not e says not often

        • @Dawn – Because the way you look on the OUTSIDE usually reflects how you feel and what your health is on the INSIDE. The comment about his looks was not about the cosmetic or attractiveness of him! It was about how his unhealthy appearance is most likely due to the fact that he isn’t healthy on the inside.

          I agree, and have noticed many times that as true, hardcore vegans age they have a cadaverous look to them – too thin, pale, pasty, and wrinkly. Your skin and hair need those fats! Nothing like the traditional diet for a healthy, happy glow!

          Reply
    • I get that question a lot about cooking food–I’m an acupuncturist. I tell my patients that when they have a weak digestive system (and almost everyone in the US does), cooking their food lets it rest more. If the food isn’t cooked, then the stomach has to do all the work that you are doing on the stove. Also, the Chinese do a lot of soups and stews because when you cook something in water, the nutrients go in the water–particularly when you are simmering on low heat and don’t have a lot of steam (which may release nutrients into the air) the nutrients stay in the broth. Soup is WONDERFUL!

      I love this article in that it talks about what good a vegan diet can do (cleanse) because we need to hear both sides of things. Many bodies do need more cleansing and releasing while others (most of ours) need tonifying (nutrients). Some people can get away with cleansing for longer periods but others find it too much even for shorter periods. As someone who talks about balance and individual bodies, I appreciate when someone allows me to explain why someone else may be getting great results and I’m telling my patient to do something different.
      Bonnie\’s last post: How Are Acupuncturists Like Writers?

      Reply
    • Do some reading on enzymes. Cooked food is devoid of enzymes because the temperature of cooking destroys them. They are vital for digestion and proper nutrition. If you eat only cooked food, your body must provide enzymes, which puts tremendous strain on the pancreas and other organs, and leads to disease. Eat some raw food before or with every meal. How many animals cook their food? You are an animal too.

      The level of ignorance in this thread is abysmal, starting with the original article. Please people – find better sources of information. Unless you’re just looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear about that ‘horrible raw veganism’ – then this is perfect for you. This author obviously has an ax to grind (as stated in the first line – “There is a sizeable community of raw vegans near where I live”), and doesn’t know much of anything. Disregard and move on.

      Reply
  69. Noelle Julian via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Thanks for sharing. Last summer – I did a 1 month green smoothie cleanse. After the cleanse I had a cough that lasted six months and was deep and would not go away. It took alot of time to heal from that and I think that a month on green smoothies did more damage than it healed.

    Reply
      • I don’t think Noelle was saying that the green smoothie fast caused her cough. I would assume from what she said that while being on the green smoothie fast she had a health crisis because her immune system was compromised from being on the green smoothie fast. My assumption was that the whole event was atypical for her, which is what lead her to believe it was suspiciously connected to the smoothie fast. I would have assumed the same thing were it a type and duration of illness that was not customary for me.

        Reply
    • alot of people get a form of whopping cough and don’t no it becuase no Dr. will say its that becuase they were vac. that would be them proving vac don’t work after all.

      Reply
  70. Barbara Lettelier Fitch via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Forks over Knives is an excellent Doc. One of my Fav’s. I have watched all of the Food Documentaries and it is about balance, and eating healthy foods raised properly, and without chemicals.

    Reply
  71. Kristin Marr via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 11:04 am

    This is one lady’s experience. Look into the work of Dr. Esselstyn of Cleveland Clinic or Dr. Campbell of Cornell and many others who advocate and live out a plant based diet. And these men are in their 70′s and still thriving off such diets. A great documentary to watch is Fork over Knives (available on Netflix and other sources) This lady could of had other health issues as well that would have come up no matter what.

    Reply
    • Love that film and many other live healthy on a plant based diet and ,most of these diets contain high raw.

      this can be watched for free on download at torrentz for those who have no access to it.

      I also like food inc and fat, sick and nearly dead which are there too.

      I just found out a rec center in my area is showing the film and a few days later Dr Esselstyn will be speaking there. I am hoping to go.

      Reply
  72. Barbara Lettelier Fitch via Facebook October 3, 2011 at 10:59 am

    I was a vegan in my twenties and felt great but, at about two years I started going down fast and getting ill. Upon going to my Doctor he advised me to eat some meat moderatly because it had minerals in it I needed to process others properly. Once I taught myself to eat meat again I started feeling better within a month. I now eat quality premium meats a couple of times a week. I actually now live on a small farm and raise my own. Thank you for posting this because I have been telling my daughter about this and what happened to me years ago as she is now 30 and a total vegan. I am sharing this for her to read and watch

    Reply
    • to the lady with the 30 year old vegan daughter who was vegan herself in her 20s

      Not disrespect but I find it odd that you would listen to a doctor of all people who have next to no education in nutrition and often know less than the average person interested in nutrition and health.

      I feel maybe you were cleansing too rapidly and that is why experience raw fooders like Dr Norman Walker who lived to be 97 knew that people need transitional diets to go back and forth to to slow cleansing if it is too fast and causing healing crises.

      Also at 20, your vegan diet may not have had optimal choices and you may not have known what you might now as to what to eat..

      You may feel fine now but one can achieve a level of health like the waitress that I spoke of before..she thought she was super healthy before she began Ehret’s diet but she had no clue people could be that healthy as in face few are. You may be healthy but you might be super healthy on an optimal raw vegan diet whole food with lots of green smoothies

      see my long post below. also watch the film forks over knives with your daughter for some scientific backing for a plant based diet. You can download it at torrentz

      Reply
    • That is the ‘Essene gospel’……. NOT Christian. Jesus said no such thing. In fact, Peter had a vision, in which God told him that ALL food was acceptable (no canned or processed food in those days), including all meat (he was afraid to eat pork as a guest in a non-Jewish household).

      Reply
    • In Christian Genesis Adam and Eva eat fruit, veggies and herbs. They do not drink milk for babie- cows, honey for babie-beans or kill animals for dead flesh.

      Reply
  73. Thanks for sharing the video! It is great to see people who used to promote raw vegan diets come to realization that such diet is only a cleansing diet, and not to be used for building and maitaining your health! And Maria is so open minded to try organ foods right away!
    I am having liver and onions for lunch today, since I found that when I have liver at least once a week, it gives me
    great energy. My lab work for iron and B12 needs work :)
    marina\’s last post: Peach pie, gluten free

    Reply
    • Fug, but what is balance. I have friends who chime in with moderation, but what is moderation. For example, I just cannot eat carbs. I get fat and feel badly. I can eat veg and berries but as soon as I add rice or potatoes to my diet, I have problems. Of course I may be an exception but that is the point. We all need to listen to out bodies and be mindful. Some in their youth can get away with wrong habits but often it will catch up to them later in life. I didn’t eat oranges or strawberries in my childhood because I knew instinctively they were not good for me (or for whatever reasoning went on in a small boys head.) They hurt my tummy, yet limes and lemons and raspberries I would eat with glee. Years later I found out that these two foods I disliked were too acidic for my innards, yet strangely, though limes, lemons and raspberries taste acidic they are actually alkalising. Go figger.

      Reply
    • My questions are:

      Maria said she was ‘a 95% raw vegan’. Well thats like me saying I perform 95% with no drugs… WTF!! lol!

      How come this Maria chick has a gut and not in any shape but she is the ‘authority’ after a year on her 95% raw vegan ‘diet’. LMAO!

      How come ALL the anti vegan snake oil sellers out there sell MINERAL SUPPS to their meat based diet followers??

      How come Sally Fallon is writing a new book called ‘Fat Bitch’ in response to vegan author Rory Freeman’s NYC times best seller ‘Skinny Bitch’.?

      How come Mary Enig looks like death warmed up. Check out Mimi Kirk and she is about 10 years older lol!

      The fat you eat is the fat you wear…

      Reply
      • Gabriela Guthier October 6, 2011 at 2:57 am

        Sarah looks good. Maria is recovering from raw veganism. I think some respond better to meats and others to vegetables.

        Reply
        • You can only get vitamins A, D and B12 from animal-based products, though not necessarily flesh, butter, eggs and cheese all work too, and in the case of D you can make it in your body provided you have access to adequate levels of UV radiation. It is impossible to extract and form of vitamins A, D or B12 from a vegetable based food, and before you say it beta-carotene is NOT vitamin A. It’s a low-efficiency substitute that does work, but not permanently, and eventually you’ll start to suffer from vitamin A deficiency.
          Vitamin D is made by the body when you are exposed to sunlight, or more specifically the ultraviolet radiation in sunlight, but in countries like northern Russia where the sun is not permanently visible all year, some level of fish consumption (a food very high in vitamin D) is recommended each week to ensure levels of vitamin D remain at safe levels.
          Usable vitamin B12 can only be found in animal products, period. The human body cannot make it, and it is not found in vegetable matter.
          None of these vitamins can be taken in supplement form, as supplements are not readily digestible in the quantities required by the human body. One of the worst mineral supplements is manganese, which is totally incapable of being absorbed.

          In conclusion, whilst a raw vegan diet is an excellent plan for short-term health or a detoxification program, and vegetarianism is sustainable for a life-time of healthy and delicious food, the ideal diet is an omnivorous, albeit mostly vegetable, diet.
          The best diet for a human is one with high levels of green, leafy and root vegetables (hey, we’re not herbivores but we CERTAINLY aren’t carnivores) and moderately high in carbohydrates preferably from pure sources like potato and rice as opposed to processed sources like pasta. It should feature a low level of short-chain sugars, moderate levels of both saturated (animal) and unsaturated (vegetable) fats for ideal cellular maintenance and construction, as few trans fats as possible (the kind in margarines and Crisco for example), meat in moderation (preferably at least 4 meals a week, once being organic free-range red meat, once being farmed fish, twice being organic free-range poultry) and as many eggs as you want (eggs are great for you).

          Have a nice day, enjoy your healthy, cruelty-free diet.

          Reply
          • All the minerals we need, including B12, can be derived from a vegan diet, if one knows what foods to eat. I have been vegan for years and have never been healthier. The article above is false.

          • thank you Paul. i’m not obese and have been veggie for almst 25 years. I’m verry healthy! never need a Dr. I was obese eating animalmeat! I lost that fat being veggie!

          • Actually, I beg to disagree on your assertion that we need foods moderately high in carbohydrates; from sources like potatoes and rice. As a matter of fact, when humans stopped hunting and gathering, and started becoming farmers, is when the onslaught of Type 2 Diabetes and Obesity increased.

            In the span of human existence, evolution CAN adapt our intestinal tract to digest more complex foods, such as potatoes, rice and other heavy starches, but considering that this farming method of foods only came about thousands of years ago, and the length of time animals/humans evolve/adapt systems is in the millions, we are NOT supposed to consume these kinds of foods. There is NO benefit of potatoes, rice, barley, corn or other farmed vegetables as such.

            Humans thrived for a very long time on simple nuts, vegetables, fruits and wild meat without any of the crap that people now claim, we need. And further, they thrived without Diabetes, high cholesterol, and the obesity rates we have now.

          • Dead on, Olivia. I no longer eat any root foods other than sweet potatoes in moderation (I like ‘em fried or sautéed as an occasional treat), legumes (poison) and grains (especially evil wheat – see end). I won’t even go into how evil soya (unless it is fermented) can be. If it can’t be eaten raw, then won’t usually eat it cooked.
            I eat lots of raw, blanched and lightly cooked veg so I don’t get carbo overload. That’s just me. I don’t do well on carbs. Adding bread, pasta or rice makes for carbo overload supreme. However, people who exercise a lot can often get away with these high carb foods in moderation before an exercise set. I just prefer not to spend my time exercising a lot or growing a belly. I’m like a panther. I exercise when I have to, the rest of the time I watch the chubbies running round.

          • Sam,

            You are grossly misinformed. I hold a BS in Nutritional Science. Humans DO NOT need preformed vitamin A, we do quite well synthesizing Vitamin A from beta-carotene just as do all the other mammals on the planet. Vitamin D, which is actually a hormone produced by the body in reaction to sunlight can be also be obtained from eating mushrooms. However, true Vitamin D deficiency is rare and is found in omnivores most likely due to decreased time outside and people’s irrational fear of the sun (chlorophyll protects our skin from the sun, unfortunately most people don’t consume enough). B12 which is the most recent micronutrient to be discovered by nutritionists is of some debate. No mammal has been found to synthesize B12 as it must be produced by microorganisms and is typically ingested with small amounts of soil by grazing animals. Fortunately it can be cultivated in yeasts and most vegans eat a fair amount of B12 containing Nutritional Yeast.

            I have been a healthy vegan for 23 years and have a gorgeous, healthy vegan son who is 20 who has never been ill a day in his life. I am happy to say that this is NOT a short term diet.

        • Because vegans come in all shapes and sizes. Not all vegan food is health food. There is plenty of vegan junk food… chips, fries, faux meats, cakes, cupcakes. Just because it’s vegan doesn’t mean it won’t make you fat.

          Reply
          • yup i use to do dairy but not organ meats was fat. lost more wiegth with that cut out. cows are fat why! now I only do eggs. veggie for 25 years. eggs are rare for me over 25 years too. only eating alot for my infant brain right now.

          • Paul York, you are comparing vegans to the wide range of others who are not vegan. Of course SAD and junk food eaters have such problems but compared to the group of Paleos, both raw, cooked and mix schools, the Paleos look healthier, test healthier and aren’t fat. They can’t be fat. Fat and moderate protein are by nature slimming. If someone professes to be Paleo and is fat then s/he is 1. new to the programme and in the stage of weight loss, 2. is still choosing to eat high starch foods, junk or otherwise, or 3. eating a very high protein diet.
            There is science here, my fellow sentient friend. Only carbohydrates from the plant world or carbs for the conversion of a high protein intake make fat in the body, unless there is some strange illness or genetic malfunction going on.
            Namaste,
            mhikl

      • @durianrider- You never saw past the curve of her bust line, how can you say she has a gut???

        Also, she was saying that she at a vegan diet that was 95% raw, not that she was 95% vegan. She was also a vegan for upwards of 2 years, not one.

        One more thought- you do realize that our “ultra-skinny super model ideal” is fake, right? We’re not designed to look like walking toothpicks…

        Reply
      • Try getting your facts straight, durianrider. Two years vegan, not one. Ninety-five percent raw vegan, five percent cooked or blanched veg vegan. If vegans and vegetarians had true confidence in their spiel, they wouldn’t have to lie. They love visiting paleo sites and poking fun, making innuendo and lies but on their sites, they don’t allow any non-vegans or pretend-vegans from posting criticisms about their style. That says it all. If you have to up hold your dogma with blatant lies, then that house of cards comes tumbling down pretty darn quickly.
        For all concerned, do not lump all meat eaters together with junk food eaters or those who follow the SAD diet. True Peleos are purists, or at least strive to be, no less than the vegetarian groups. Compare those who go out of their way to eat what they study to be healthy against each others. Peleos on their sites who criticise veg diets in the usual vegan standard are criticised by fellow Paleos who won’t put up with such ill-formed logic as they have true knowledge and to respect for nutrition that comes from nature and not commercial enterprise.
        By the way, ate a ton of durian whilst living in Sarawak and tis my favourite fruit.

        Reply
    • Love a society that has nothing better to do, no problems bigger, financial or otherwise, than to bicker back and forth about what KINDS of foods we should be eating. And, to be so gluttonous as to need to “cleanse”. It’s DISGUSTING that our “worldly” problems can consist of whether to eat Tofu Dogs, or kill a pig, when there are people who BEAT EACH OTHER for a bowl of rice.

      For shame.

      Reply
        • Andrea, How is that comment inappropriate? I also find it very sad that people are bickering and judging each other on what kinds of diets they are privileged enough to eat (I include myself in this Privilege). People in third world countries would be so baffled by this dialogue, many of them can barely scrape together enough to survive. First World Problems!

          Reply
      • True.

        However we are in the US and are most fortunate to be able to have selections with our food.

        The basis of our heath problems in the US is the fact that much of our food has become industrialized.

        All parties need to read and educate themselves – education is free in this country.

        Yes, as a responsible society and responible members we SHOULD BE BICKERING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT WHAT KINDS OF FOODS WE EAT.

        Many foods are hosed with articificial additives or preservatives.

        It is DISGUSTING that some would cook/eat a bowl of instant mac and cheese over a piece of cheese and fruit (over convenience or ignorance).

        Reply
        • You missed my point. The fact that we have such a fortunate problem as to get to CHOOSE what we can eat, when others FIGHT over grains of rise, is disgusting. People should be grateful they have anything to eat at all. Grateful that they have anything to cleanse their bodies of.

          Reply
          • If food is part of the very essence of our problems, what is? Especially when you talk about the miserable state the world is in today. You know, a huge part of that misery is connected to exactly how we live in the wealthy nations. Our immense hunger for meat causes the best part of our environmental problems and creates a lot of poverty in the 3rd world.

            Even if we had no hunger in the world, our own food (and thus our health) should be one of our primary concerns, right after the prevention of looting and murdering in the streets.
            If I was trying to be evil, I’d say that you couldn’t have found a worse example for a problem we should not pay attention to ;)

      • I totally, totally agree. The debate in the raw vegan community is so tiring. There seems to be so much unkindness, craziness, unbalanced attitudes. Some are downright mean. Recently there were issues about antlers in supplements and whey etc. it was like entering a war-zone. If this is how people behave, then I would prefer to enjoy my occasional portion of meat, enjoy a cup of coffee and love my neighbour and stay in touch with reality. I love the raw vegan way of life, however, it has some very unkind elements which is a big shame.

        Reply
    • It’s called “you’re doing it wrong”. Don’t tout raw veganism as life threatening bc some people are doing it the wrong way. My son is raw vegan (now 18 months old) and at the top of his percentiles for height and mid for weight- he doesn’t eat fatty junk food like almost every other kid out there- and is ADVANCED mentally. So please re-write your article after you’ve read the 80/10/10 diet and tried a high carb low fat raw vegan lifestyle for a few months. Odds are you won’t but luckily there are truth tellers out there who actually know the truth and have not only lived this lifestyle for years but some have conceived and are raising their children this way. Also, their children- like my child- is in perfect health. He has never had any sickness except for his first fever last month. That’s it. No ear infections, no cough, no runny nose or stuffy nose, no diearrehea or constipation. Nothing.

      Reply
      • Your son is only 18 months old. How do you know he won’t experience health problems as he grows up? You don’t. I’ve heard lots of people discuss their children’s health issues on a raw vegan diet after a few years so get off your high horse.

        Reply

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