An 11 month old baby exclusively breastfed by a vegan mother has died and the parents are charged with neglect after an autopsy indicated the baby suffered from deficiencies in vitamin B12 and Vitamin A – both known to be critical to a child’s development.
Vegans have long been advised to take B12 supplements as long term veganism runs the huge risk of serious B12 deficiency as well as other nutrients only found in animal foods such as true Vitamin A. Beta carotene is not true vitamin A nor does it easily convert to adequate amounts of Vitamin A in the body.
While I’m not sure I favor charging the parents in this tragedy as it smacks of Big Brother far too much for my comfort level, it does communicate a clear message to other vegans: abstinence from all animal foods is a danger to one’s health and most particularly, your baby!
It also sends a clear message that what a breastfeeding Mother eats definitely DOES affect the quality of her breastmilk. Many breastfeeding advocates insist that breastmilk will include all a baby needs despite what the Mother eats, but clearly this is not the case.
Traditional cultures took great care to ensure that pregnant and breastfeeding mothers consumed ample amounts of animal foods rich in vitamins A, D, E, K and of course B12. These foods included grassfed butter, pastured eggs, liver, seafood, and fish eggs. Notice that none – NOT ONE of these traditionally sacred foods is plant based!
If you are pregnant and breastfeeding and would like to learn what foods will maximally support the health of your baby while nursing, please check this link for the complete listing of traditionally sacred foods for optimal fetal and baby development. These foods will also ensure the preservation of your own health during pregnancy and lactation which can easily deplete a Mother’s nutritional stores leaving her vulnerable to exhaustion.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist.com
Vitamin B12: Vital Nutrient for Good Health
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{ 178 comments… read them below or add one }
This made me so angry reading it a few days ago. Of course, when I posted it all of my vegetarian/ vegan friends argued that the parents were just being idiotic with their diet and OF COURSE it wasn’t the veganism.
Ummmm… that baby was severely deficient in B12 and Vitamin A. Where do we get those two vitamins??? How do you NOT blame it on the vegan diet? Ughhh so frustrating and tragic. It just pisses me off that someone will put their crazy ethical agendas over and above their children’s health.
Hi AshleyRoz,
You’re so right! Also, the activator X that Dr. Price highly emphasized in his book is needed for the absorption of minerals, which is only found in high quality animal foods like butter, eggs, and fish eggs.
When someone’s malnourished enough to die, I think one would naturally find that the person is deficient in a lot of vitamins.This poor child should also have been started on solid foods months before.
This sounds like a case of failure to thrive and an inappropriate, probably neglectful parental response. Failure to thrive happens to breastfed children, no matter what their mothers eat. It happens to formula-fed children. It happens to toddlers. It’s very common in preemies.
People who don’t know anything about this case shouldn’t jump to conclusions. There are lots of babies breastfed by vegan mothers who are just fine.
I don’t blame it on the vegan diet because there are lots of vegan moms who breastfeed and most of them don’t have children who die. If you’re going to be vegan, you need to know what to eat and what to supplement. The problem is the lack of knowledge in healthfully executing the diet, not in the diet itself. Omnivores don’t usually get all of the vitamins and minerals they need, either, because of unbalanced diets and because food doesn’t have the same nutritional content that it used to because of how it’s grown.
Heather\’s last post: Corn and Soy Follow-up
Hi Heather, I have never read or heard of a single meat eating mother whose breastfed baby died from malnutrition. Have you? Your comment that there are “lots of vegan moms who breastfeed and most of them don’t have children who die” is shocking. “MOST don’t die?” How about NONE should die! The lengths that vegans will go to defend their unnatural and illogical way of eating is astonishing. It must be B12 deficiency as this is definitely linked to mental clarity issues. That is the only reason I can come up with.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Genetically Modified Cows Produce “Human” Milk
Wow, this reply is from the author?! I don’t even know where to begin…”unnatural and illogical?” If that’s not the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to plant based diet vs the Standard American Diet, I just don’t know what is.
I’m so sorry I saw a link to this article on Facebook and wasted any time reading and commenting. People’s view of veganism is so archaic, it’s just sad. Now I know to avoid links to this website in the future.
You got that right. Assinine attacks on veganism (THE most natural diet; nature’s intent) are frustrating.
A similar case happened 5 years ago in New York. “Journalists” has a good time trashing vegans. At end of case the Judge said “IT WASN’T VEGANISM; IT WAS NEGLECT” (an almost non-existant diet).
B12 is made by bacteria in the gut. The problem lies in people who eat spices, anti-biotics and other medicines, alcohol, vinegar, pesticides from conventional produce, hormones from meat products, and other poisons which kill off these sensitive bacteria and then they no longer produce B12 for our benefit.
There’s animals called herbivores. We’re one of them (primates). there is zero need for animal products: stated by the ADA, WHO and proven by nature.
The most natural diet? Nature’s intent?
If that was the case vegans wouldn’t need to take supplements, get off your high horse and eat it.
I agree 100% Sarah! Even in instances like this, and vegans STILL think their diet is healthy – it’s unreal. It’s more of a religion rather than based on fact.
If it was a ‘natural’ way of living as they say, why are there so many substitutes on the market for meat, dairy and eggs? Why are they told to take supplements to ensure that they don’t get sick? We are not herbivores – we’re omnivores. We have one stomach (not multiple like cows) and canine teeth (not even, flat teeth, again like horses or cows); our system is simply not set up to digest ONLY vegetation.
Of course what you’re saying upsets vegans, but hey – the truth hurts; you’re talking facts – they’re talking ideology. And unless something actually happens to THEM they’ll continue to defend it, regardless of what happens to other people. Horrible, but true.
Meat-eaters are supposed to take suppliments,too. If the meat and dairy diet is so perfect,then why do we have heart disease,osteoporosis, diabetes,etc?
I hate how people try to make it out to be the fault of the vegan diet. What about blaming the parents of obese children for feeding their kids such crap? The average American diet is deficient in so much it’s scary. By drinking milk,you’re actually depleting your body of calcium. Why? Because the sugar mixed with high amounts of protein actually eats away at your bones.
Ignorant people make me sick,no matter the diet. Sadly,it’s the meat-eaters who are most ignorant all too often. That’s why they jump on a story like this. Vegans and vegetarians don’t jump on the rest of you whenever your babies die accidentally. Meat-eaters just need to jump on the rest of us to help them feel better about their diets because,for some reason,they feel so threatened.
I’m vegan and pregnant and my doctor is always so amazed at how perfect my levels are. She said that she’s never even seen such a perfect level of vitamin D and calcium even in a person with a regular diet. I only take a simple prenatal vitamin and folic acid,just like every single other pregnant woman should take. Otherwise,I simply eat healthy.
Lisa it’s how the meat and diary is produced and introduced to the body.
dairy*
You are a overhyper cunt. Shut the hell up. You are a fucking Nazi and a waste of friggin’ space.
Hey MikeOverHere
You sound like such a fucking tool it makes me embarrassed to be of the sames species as you.
Do us all a favor and die.
@Lisa
Good for you and good luck on your pregnancy and baby
Sarah seriously of course they do its called failure to thrive and it happens in plenty of babies whose mothers eat all kinds of diet….You are so rude to anyone who says anything that does not agree with your lifestyle, seriously and you are soooo condescending you really think you are better than anyone who doesn’t follow your paleo whatever…I tried to right you for help once and you gave me such a snotty answer I didn’t bother looking into your diet…you need to get your attitude in check seriously and get over yourself …I have no respect for you or your views anymore the way you answer these people you are not an teacher your an agenda pusher, trying to scare people into your way of life….never in my life uggghh have a little respect for others please…
“Unnatural and illogical”??? Not a surprising article of someone uninformed enough to advocate that “paleo” fad. “I have never read or heard of a single meat eating mother whose breastfed baby died from malnutrition. Have you?” YES. B12 deficiency is not exclusive to vegans, and many babies die because of different nutrient deficiency in the mother’s diet. Get informed first. However, judging by the tone of your article and comments I suspect all you wanted to do is to create more hype and controversy to drive people to read this.
Don’t take your nutritional advice from blog blabbers, people. Take it from DOCTORS and NUTRITIONISTS, which are actually EDUCATED in the subject. And mine actually praised me for following a vegan diet; after years of veganism my yearly blood exams yield perfectly healthy results.
What an absurd statement: Of course Mothers whom themselves are omnivorse have had babies die of malnutrition…It happens in this world every day!
Your article would be a lot more concise and come off a lot less opinonated toward the aim of frightening Mothers into buying something from you if it were you had offered where it was in the world this death occured and by whose authority it was the Mother was charged with neglect.
The most common cause of infant mortality in this world remains dehydration due to complications from diarrhea and the mixing of supplements and baby formula under unsanitary conditions in lieu of breastfeeding is the number one cause of fatal infant diarrhea.
I myself am not vegan and as such am not offended personally when it is the vegan diet is attacked but I am offended when my sensibility is.
ignorance is the enemy of intelligence, but unfortunately is bliss to most. it’s not veganism or vegetarianism that did that, it was the mother’s failure to eat right. you can get all the vitamins and nutrients the body needs without meat, but as a meat eater and obviously opposed to veganism i don’t expect you to understand or believe that. just so you know, though, your prejudice in your comments is reminiscent of sayin all black people are criminals because one black man is convicted of a crime. maybe get more info.
This article’s particularly sad as the mother has to deal with her baby dying on top of being criticized for her diet. I’m pescetarian myself which encompasses I believe a fuller range of those vitamins and nutrients essential for health, growth and development. However I was Vegan at one time myself – Vegan’s are very caring people – and I’m sure she was destroyed by the baby’s death, let alone some horrible comments I see in here.
It’s good to educate, but be considerate too.
A diet doesn’t make someone ca caring person.
Take away the BF and vegan aspect. If a formula fed baby (though of course significantly less likely to be deficient in Vitamin A and B12) were not started on solids and died at a measly 12 lbs they would definitely still be and should be charged with neglect.
Kate – just FYI, 12lbs at 11mos is a totally appropriate weight. Plot it on a growth curve.
Hi Trina .. 12 lbs at 11 months old is not even on the growth curve. My daughter was 17 lbs at 11 months and she was in the 5% !! 12 lbs at that age is completely malnourished.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Genetically Modified Cows Produce “Human” Milk
Unless.. did anyone check…. was the baby born to early… already have problem because of that… weight was very little like many preemies…. not saying this the case but that thought came to mind. Also I’m vegetarian, I do eat eggs. Raw too, which shocks sooo many people i know because of the FDA saying samenilia. believe what you will but Vegan diet was mans first diet in beginning of time. I’m also 7 months and doing great and will breastfeed. and give egg yolk as first food. If dead animals are given when baby ready for that daddy has to make it.
We’ll here’s the growth curve for breastfed infants: http://www.hippiedippiebebe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/whoweightforagegirls.jpg 12 lb = 5.44 kg. Nope. Not even on the growth curve. So, no, according to WHO it’s not a “totally appropriate” weight.
Jenny\’s last post: A Recipe for Spring- Strawberry Mint Sorbet
I’m sorry, ladies. I was thinking in kilos! 12kg would have been totally appropriate, but 12lbs most definitely isn’t.
I feel so sorry for those parents. They probably thought they were giving their child the best (come on – that’s the only reason anyone could be vegan, it’s not for the taste of the diet!) and they slowly starved their child instead. Our government is to blame for this. They lead everyone to believe that low fat, high carb is great and that veggies are the best source of nutrition – with those recommendations, a vegan diet seems very healthy! Now they want to charge the parents. Do they ever do anything about parents whose kids are diabetic and obese because of their diet? Food for thought. These parents need to be educated, not condemned.
WELL SAID, Andrea!!
I also feel sorry for these parents. They thought they were doing what was best for their child. Imagine the guilt they must feel.
Besides the Government, we have people like the trainers on Biggest Loser and others telling people to, for example, skip on the “walnut oil” because it’s fattening and other such nonsense.
My thoughts and prayers go out to this family.
Government my eye! Vegans are vegans becaue of their own mental lies that they believe. Eating animals is wrong is the start of that lie. Not eating animal produced products is the next. The government does not promote that.
The scary thing about this, is that this happened in FRANCE. The place we look up to as enlightened on fat. And, according to a commenter on John Durant’s post about this, some parents in the EU are charged with neglect when their children are obese.
WordVixen\’s last post: Disney’s Art of Animation Resort & Hotel
How about taking some personal responsibility and not blaming it on the government. When are people going to grow up and take responsibility for their own lives and actions! If you blame things like the biggest loser then you are the one who is losing by subscribing the the things you call bad in those shows.
No one said the alternative was for the “american diet” @Briana April 4, 2011 at 6:59 pm. There are people out there that don’t eat the “american diet”, you are obviously from America and think that the world revolves around you, just a small bit of reality for you,…….it doesn’t! How can you be so naive to think that the only alternative to Veganism is Americanism. Get off your high horse.
BTW
Sarah, please edit out comments like the one from
(MikeOverHere October 5, 2011 at 4:16 am) Its just heartbreakingly disgusting that human beings can talk like this, its just disheartening that this is the level humanity has stooped to.
Andrea – Yes, parents of diabetic and obese children ARE being charged with neglect and having their kids taken away. Not all of them, but it is happening now and has been for at least the last 6 years that I know of. I agree with Sarah that it smacks too much of Big Brother. The government doesn’t always know what is best for people and are no better equipped to raise a healthy child than the average parent. Take a look at the WIC program.
The current understanding of nutrition by scientists and doctors is constantly changing. The only ones who have a clue are those who have abandoned the idea that they can unlock some mystery behind our bad health, instead looking to knowledge of traditional cultures that never had these problems to deal with in the first place. Unfortunately vegans are among those who keep ignoring history and think they can do a better job of figuring things out.
Here in the states they have taken obese kids from families only to find out that the mother wasnt to blame. its either hormonal or that others slip the child fiood that the mother does not authorise cause they think its “child neglect” if you refuse a cookie or cake to the child. hopefully one day they will all just reeducate the parents while running tests to see if there is another reason fo rthem to be that way. there are kids BORN with diabeties and yet they are all lumped into the neglect catagory. if your liver isnt produceing insulin it can be from a whole list of things that are going on with the body.
Vegans tend to get defensive when it comes to nutritional attacks. So I avoid the debates and instead sell the benefits of kimchi and other fermented veggies as a source of Vitamin B12 and K2. I try and keep the discussion positive, so I share this post with those that don’t eat like us: If I Were Still A Vegetarian….
MAS\’s last post: Ending the 30 Day No Sugar No Fruit Experiment
Reading all the comments so far, it looks like vegans aren’t the only ones who get defensive…
Sally\’s last post: Kentucky’s ONLY Food Freedom Candidate for Governor- Phil Moffett
This is such a heart breaking story. I feel sorry for the parents who were probably trying their best but were simply misinformed.
Lovelyn\’s last post: Reading- Writing and…
Oh this breaks my heart! Perhaps they did think they were doing what was best for the baby but once you see that your child is not thriving you would think they would realize their error!!!
Educate yourself… my prayers go out to those parents.
A tragedy all around. Heartbreaking.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Genetically Modified Cows Produce “Human” Milk
Oh, this is sooo sad. I cannot imagine the pain of the mother when she one day faces her failure. It is so important to remind folks that vegans have to artificially incorporate so many nutrients (stripped from natural sources) in order to survive. More people need to see this and read it and pass it on so that fewer children suffer and die. I have your feed on my blog’s home page so I am doing my part.
Melissa @ Dyno-mom\’s last post: The Merry-Fluoride-Go-Round
I’m not a vegan or vegetarian. I feel bad for them. I’m sure they didn’t do this to their child on purpose! She was probably influenced by the agenda that veganism is actually good for you on top of the severe pressure from the breast feeding advocates to breast feed as long and as much as you can. I remember being bombarded by the breast feeding advocates for “giving up” too soon on my daughter when I started formula feeding her at 3 months. Never mind that my daughter’s skin was literally sagging on her body due to the loss of fat from my severely inadequate breast milk supply despite all my efforts to keep my breast milk up. I should have given her formula sooner, but the advocates kept pressuring me to “keep breast feeding.” “No one produces too little breast milk.” “You’re not feeding her often enough.” (Try every hour during the day and every 2 hours at night!!!!) It was seeing her sagging skin that woke me up. 2 days of formula feeding and she was chubbing up again and a much happier baby.
Ironically, breast milk is not vegan in that it is an “animal product” since it comes from humans.
A couple years ago when the economy tanked, a baby died from a mother watering down the formula in an effort to save money. I can’t remember if she was charged or not.
I totally feel you. We were out of hospital birthers, that ended up with two cesareans, so you can only imagine the ‘you fail’ crap we got there. Then, adding on me truly not having enough milk too and having to formula feed, I was then going to LLL hell! Some mom’s can’t exculsively BF. It’s the truth. Yes, they can ‘pump what they have’, but to be honest, that was too much for me. The only time I could pump was while holding her with a pumping bra, and I only got about 8 oz a day pumping every 3 hours. So we quit, and now formula feed as well. Kuddos to you for giving it your all!!!! Oh, if you start having issues with formula, as we did with both ours, try the weston a price homemade formula and do some reading on that. We’ve had a great experience with it and know we are not alone..
Actually breast milk is vegan. Veganism is the minimisation/elimination of harm to other animals. Human breast milk is for human babies and is not contrary to the vegan philosophy. Cow’s milk is for calves and humans consuming it is contrary to the philosphy (also take a look at the nasty circumstances and horrible cases of mastitis of cows on dairy farms).
“Veganism” did not kill this baby. An ill-informed mother who did not take care to ensure that she consumed enough of the right vitamins and minerals (which are all available from plant based sources)- harmed this poor child. Unfortunately, not all vegans bright and well -informed, just as not all ominvores/carnivores are bright and well informed.
Blaming “veganism” would be like blamining “meat eaters” as a whole collective group whenever their child is ill or died through some form of vitamin/mineral deficiency or bad eating habits (which is a lot more frequent % wise than it is for vegans/vegetarians).
I’ve been a vegetarian almost all my life and a vegan for 18 years (I’m currently 32). I have been fit and healthy all my life. I am also 34 weeks preganant with a perfectly developing baby and all my blood tests have revealed perfect levels of everything. The doctor is quite chuffed that I am having such a smooth, healthy pregnancy because unlike most other (dare I say it “non-vegan”) mothers that come into the clinic- neither I or the baby are having any problems and have no deficiences. Co-incidence or not, I am also NOT suffering from any of those nasty common problems of pregnancy like constipation, hemeroids etc. (probably because I naturally get lots of fibre in my diet).
The parents need to be educated in nutrition, just like any other parent.
It is quite disappointing that so many people make such broad generalised comments about a named group such as “vegans” whilst they have obviously not done any research on the topic (by this I mean reading actual scientific studies rather than reading tabloids) and make ridicuouls comments such as “how can it not be the vegan diet”. We don’t have any details on what this woman was actually eating and therefore, I don’t see how anyone can blame “veganism” without knowing such details.
Ironically- when pregnant most woman are advised to eat “more fresh fruit and vegtables”- doesn’t that tell you something.
Now THAT is the most ridiculous vegan comment I’ve EVER heard. Human breastmilk is vegan? How closedminded and emotionally attached to your flawed way of thinking can you be?
THIS is the most ridiculous nonvegan comment. Seriously?!? I eat meat and I’m trying to eat more veggies and fruits and less carbs. I still breastfeed my 11-month old, who eats what we eat, including meat. To me, it is offensively obvious that you are anti-vegan/vegetarian and NOT pro-health. What a shame. It makes TOTAL sense that human breastmilk would be considered vegan in the diet of a human baby, at least for the first 4-6 months of life. It’s obvious that YOUR way of thinking is flawed because it is so close-minded and hateful. So much for taking anything seriously from you! If you ever have children that are obese or have type 2 diabetes, I hope you get charged with neglect for feeding thing too much crap.
what is wrong with you? AMW gave a very logical and reasonable response and you still respond rudely to her. are you that close minded that you wont listen to ANY information that suggest that it is possible to be healthy on a plant based diet? im not even vegan, or vegetarian for that matter, and i still think your biased jerk!
Sarah why is veganism a flawed way of thinking? Animals produce milk that is designed for their own newborns. As a species we are NOT naturally designed to drink it so why would not drinking constitute a flawed way of thinking? In fact i cant think of a single other species on this planet that drinks another species breast milk…
wait, are you being serious? you are the most ridiculous blogger i have ever read (ok, maybe not THE most, but ONE of the most ridiculous)! hahahahahaha, i LITERALLY laughed out loud when you commented this until i realized that you were being serious. and now i just feel sorry for you because you are so closed minded and uninformed. it is sad that you are actually blogging and that people are actually reading it (and it seems even a small percentage might agree with you??). i know bloggers are definitely allowed to have opinions, but i guess it was naive of me to think they would be informed about them! i am still chuckling at you. and wondering if this is somehow a joke…
Man, this is just painful to read.
I am currently breast feeding and I too believed that my daughter would get nutrients either way. I’ve recently began reading about the traditional way to eat and find it extremely interesting. On a trip to California, last week, I had the opportunity to purchase raw milk and pastured eggs. I did this for the few days I was there. Suddenly the color of my daughters “poop” became very bright yellow and she was passing less gas and was smiling instead of struggling when she had a movement. I was so happy for her and she was so happy as well. Upon my return to New Mexico, I resumed eating soy fed organic eggs and organic lactose milk (I was not lactose intolerant- to my surprise- with the raw milk) and my daughter’s movements returned to the previous color and she had the same struggles as she did before. I wish the government here would allow for an increase in raw milk supplies. I found a source for pastured eggs but the milk is not available here.
I too wonder if the parents had received this info if perhaps they would have had a change in ethical beliefs.
I found out that grass fed cow’s are treated much better when milked and the slaughter is more “humane” as well. Perhaps this would have helped that poor child. Sorry if I am all over the place. I still have “baby brain”.
Where are you in NM? I can help you source it, depending on where you are.
God bless,
amy
I have to say I’m confused by the first line which states that the baby was “exclusively breastfed by a vegan mother”. I took this to mean that the child had not been put on solid food yet which of course would also lead to severe nutrient deprivation. If I’m not reading this wrong then that would have been as significant a contributor to the babies death as the fact that the mother was a vegan.
Alysa\’s last post: Aww sugar- sugar plus a recipe
An 11 month old can live solely on breast milk from a healthy mother- my first child didn’t have a bite of food til after her first birthday (when she was about 25 lbs) and my second only had a few bites before his first birthday. They would spit solids out, I didn’t push it. Around 1 they started eating quite a bit.
I think your take on this story is good- I get nervous about the ‘neglect’ aspect of it as well, I do many things AMA – going with medical advice isn’t always the answer, but neither is veganism.
Cara\’s last post: What is a GAPS Family
Why isn’t veganism the answer?
Im shock. I was in a macrobiotic diet when I was pregnant of my first son, now 2 and a half years and still breastfeeding. I changed the diet about eight months ago: I and my son are eating now meat, eggs, diary. I havent been able yet to drink raw milk. I`m feeling really fine and with energy. I changed my diet because my instict told me something was going wwrong with my child: he was not much growing, he had a yellow skin tone, and he was under every curve of weight and height, and we have to gave him iron suplement.
Now I`m trying not to feel guilty for following a macrobiotic diet (that my husband still follows) and for not follow my basic insticts. I`m not makink such mistake again. I´m from Quito-Ecuador. Thank you Sarah!!
Anyone have a link to the original article?
Hi MegganB, the source for the article is listed at the end of the post.
Sarah, I am not seeing it; maybe I’m just keep missing it, but I’ve looked over & over. Please help. Thanks!
Never mind, got it! If it were a snake…
The cause of the problem wasn’t that this infant was exclusively breast-fed until 11mo. It was that Mom was deficient in B12 (and A, but B12 has more significant implications in development – particularly neurologic development), likely because she was a vegan. It’s a pretty common thing to see with vegans.
Although current recommendations advise starting solids at 6mos, many parents don’t choose to start solid foods until 1yo. If the infants are receiving breastmilk and/or formula, that alone doesn’t usually cause a problem; t is not a form of starvation nor does it usually cause failure to thrive. In fact, this infant was a healthy weight – 12lbs for an 11mo infant is totally appropriate. The issue here is critical nutrient deprivation (B12). Pediatrician should have (and hopefully did) advise Mom that she either needed B12 supplementation or to change her diet while breastfeeding to ensure that the infant received adequate nutrients.
Hi Trina,
It certainly wasn’t just the issue of a B12 deficiency. In truth, the mother was also deficient in vitamins A, D, and K as well. The vitamin K that Weston A. Price was talking about was referred to as “activator X,” which can only be found in special foods of the animal kingdom like pastured butter, eggs, etc. The vitamin K is needed to assimilate minerals. So, in addition to having a deficiency in several major vitamins, the vegan mother was also severely deficient in minerals, as well.
what a sad story! i don’t think the doctors and pediatricians and obstetricians ask people what their diet is like, at least they never asked me when i was pregnant or breastfeeding. they do ask what supplements moms take when pregnant though, once i told my obstetrician that i am taking cod liver oil she was sooo schocked and told me to stop it immediately. i did not stop taking it though
so the mom just did not know she was doing something wrong and did not get a chance to find out.
marina\’s last post: Super Easy Crockpot Applesauce
Correction to my previous post – 12 *pounds* would indicate failure to thrive. I was thinking in kilos, though, and 12kg would have been totally appropriate. Sorry for the error!
The WHO recommends exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months then adding solid foods for a healthy baby. These parents didn’t do that, that is most likely the real problem. Vegan mothers the world over have been breastfeeding their babies for 1000′s of years, and have avoided heart disease, diabetes an cancer along the way. Please read nutrition studies such as “The China Study” and see http://www.pcrm.org for more info.
Denise Minger has completely discredited the China Study. Vegans have not been around for 1000′s of years because vegans become infertile after 1 or 2 generations and cannot reproduce. Vegetarians have been around, but not vegans.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Genetically Modified Cows Produce “Human” Milk
LOL!!!!!!!
“Vegans have not been around for 1000′s of years because vegans become infertile after 1 or 2 generations and cannot reproduce. Vegetarians have been around, but not vegans.”
WOW. I needed a good laugh today. Thank you.
I’m not being insensitive to the fact that these people lost their child, but I just can’t imagine how many people can be this grossly misinformed and have this sinister view of people who try to live a more natural, and cruelty-free lifestyle. Judging people who try to live compassionately because someone does it wrong and makes a huge mistake that they have to live with forever, that is ridiculous. There are many, many generations of vegans out there, fyi. People who eat omnivorous diets can also be malnourished and not get the right nutrients. It’s all about balance.
Briana, a meat eating or even a vegetarian mother can make a huge mistakes with her diet and her baby won’t die being breastfed. It’s true that omnivores can have imbalanced diets, but a vegan diet is so imbalanced that it can be deadly for breastfed babies. A vegan diet takes malnutrition to a whole new level as it leaves out the most important nutrients .. the fat soluble activators only found in animal foods.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Grassfed Goes Gourmet
Interesting how you fail to document any traditional vegan cultures? Why? Because there are none.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Grassfed Goes Gourmet
i know, right? i have been laughing while reading every comment from the original author. everyone else seems to be basing their opinions on at least some facts, but sarah keeps pulling random stuff from left field. i am actually going to post this on my other blog so people can come read her comments for a chuckle today.
hahahahaha.
This is just unbelievable. Though I’m less sympathetic – they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Plain and simple, they should have known better.
and what’s really shocking (as if this isn’t shocking enough!) – this isn’t the first time something like this has happened; it’s happened in New York, Atlanta, Australia, Miami….it’s crazy! When are people going to stop adhering to their batsh*t ideology and face facts??
Really???? To the fullest extent of the law? You think this equals rape and murder? NICE attitude — these people lost their child and you are this mean-spirited? I really hope people are just as forgiving to you when you make mistakes.
Marcela – be very careful what you wish for ; it may some day come to be seen as “cruel” and “abusive” to feed your babies (or self!) in the traditional manner. We MUST be supportive of a person’s right to be wrong, or we all suffer. I seriously doubt this mother was trying to harm her baby, quite the contrary – she most likely thought she was doing good.
So so very sad. I’m still BF my 14.5 month old: he nurses 3-4 times during the day and 2-3 times at night, more if he’s coming down with a cold or such. He started wanting food around 6/7 months but still BF every 3-4 hours. He’s off the charts for height and in the 75% IIRC for weight. I feel so very sorry for these parents… not sure what their circumstances were but didn’t the child exhibit symptoms? Many posters mentioned sagging skin… wouldn’t that ring a bell?? I don’t do many well baby visits – I observe my child and weigh him occassionally. Didn’t the parents do any of this?? Again, heartbreaking.
I first saw this story on Naturalnews and Adams is of course actually in support of veganism. I do become angry when I think of all the parents who feed their kids worthless junkfood, pump them up with worthless vaccines, and let them sip out of BPA coated plastic bottles yet they don’t get their kids taken away. Our society is so messed up.
Really that mother should have been supplementing though I don’t think she should be prosecuted as she was only doing what she thought was best and meant no harm.
Kelli\’s last post: Cancer Is A Disease Of The Modern World
Others have read this story and taken it to be that the parents refused medical care when their daughter was ill — which they did. It seems that all around their choices were inappropriate and that they stuck fast to a belief system until it actually killed their daughter. I am afraid that next, this will be the mainstream going after all parents who believe in natural health. But that’s not really the issue. The issue is that what these parents were doing — both the vegan diet and the natural health treatments — were not appropriate in THIS case. Long before it got to the point of severe illness, they should have recognized that something was not right and gotten their daughter help — from a trained naturopath or other health professional. It did not need to be mainstream, necessarily. My information said that they simply read a book at home and attempted to treat the little girl themselves. THAT is what was inappropriate, given the girl’s serious condition. Some type of professional should have been consulted here.
I disagree that 12 lbs. is an appropriate weight for an 11-month-old. My children both weighed about 18 lbs. at a year and were in the bottom 5% for weight for their age. (Breastfed on a traditional diet, eating lots of eggs and pastured meats.)
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama\’s last post: Recipe Collection- Baked Lemon-Pepper Fish
Now the lame MSM is going to try to make natural health look bad thanks to the poor decisions of this one mom. But really, they should have taken her to a professional naturopath instead of trying to treat her themselves. A kid that young…
They were most likely not taking him to the pediatrician for “well visits” otherwise I believe this would have been caught sooner. Tragic.
The author is this article has absolutely no knowledge of nutrition. I get my Vit A from spiralina and carrots. Humans get Vit D from the sun, Vit E from Olive oil and flax oil and nuts, and Vitamin K is found chiefly in leafy green vegetables such as spinach, swiss chard, and Brassica (e.g. cabbage, kale, cauliflower, broccoli, and brussels sprouts); some fruits such as avocado, kiwifruit and grapes are also high in vitamin K. I know plenty of vegan moms who breast feed and none of their kids are obese nor do they have allergies nor do they die.
This article reeks of anti-vegan sentiment, but I’d like to see the same author confront the fact that 1/3 of American children are obese. Isn’t that child abuse as well?
b-12 is in many plant based foods, such as fermented foods, some seaweeds, nutritional yeast.
This mother did not have the slightest clue on what a well balanced diet means, it has nothing to do with veganism.
Hi Sarah May .. the vitamin A in plant foods is not true vitamin A. It is beta carotene which only converts 5-10% AT BEST in the gut to true vitamin A. If a person has any gut imbalance at all (who doesn’t these days?) then little to no beta carotene will be converted. Yes, I agree that the obese children eating fast food are malnourished and the parents are negligent as well, but they aren’t dead at 11 months. Overweight and dead are two completely different things.
First beta-carotene which is found in plant and animal foods is not the same as vitamin A. It must be converted in the digestive tract. Small children, the elderly and those with thyroid disorders or gut dysbiosis cannot make that conversion at all; among those who actually can make the conversion it is grossly inefficient.
Vitamin D can be manufactured in the skin from sunlight; however, unless you live in tropical and semi-tropical latitudes, the process is inefficient.
You’re right that olive oil and nuts are a great source of vitamin E.
Vitamin K1 is found in leafy greens and plant foods, but is largely inactive. Vitamin K2 is active and is found in butterfat and fermented soy. Multiple studies have illustrated that vitamin K1 is not as effective in the prevention of chronic diseases including cancer as is vitamin K2 (which you get from animal sources and fermented soy).
Vitamin B12 that you get from seaweeds and fermented foods is inactive and may actually block the uptake of true vitamin B12 which is otherwise only found in animal foods.
It’s interesting that you say this mother doesn’t have the slightest clue of what a well-balanced diet means (how do you know that anyway? do you know what she was eating aside from a vegan diet?), because if you were well-informed you’d have a better understanding of the differences between K1/K2, beta carotene/vitamin A, conversion rates and inactive B12/B12.
Jenny\’s last post: A Recipe for Spring- Strawberry Mint Sorbet
Did you know that about 45% of the population can’t convert plant vitamin A (beta carotene) into usable vitamin A (retinol)? This baby was A deficient, and I bet that’s why. If you can’t make that conversion, you could be eating your weight in carrots and still be A deficient.
Some people also can’t produce certain fatty acids and amino acids that are necessary for life. Some people can live okay for awhile on a vegan diet, and some people will quickly develop health problems — as this baby did.
Unfortunately many people don’t have the slightest clue what a well-balanced diet means. We have diet “experts” telling us all day long that animal products will kill us and we should be on a “healthy plant-based diet,” and yet have you EVER seen a warning on an article or advertisement promoting veganism that says, “Please talk to a nutritionist before starting a vegan diet” or “you will need to take supplements if you cut out all animal foods”? People promote these diets because of ideology, but they are negligent in warning people of the risks. Is it any wonder people think that they can just cut out all animal products and be healthier, without any special planning?
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Good response!
Well, no matter what one persons beliefs on the “best” diet are, it’s a pretty big jump to say that the baby died because her mother was a vegan. Seriously, vegan mothers nurse their babies every day and these babies aren’t dying. It seems totally ridiculous to me, and I’m not a vegan at all. She is also brunette, I noticed. Perhaps babies nursed by brunette mothers are more likely to die? Wait, I have a question, how many babies nursed by SAD eating mothers die every day? I have a very healthy (never been sick) three yr-old who is very petite. She’s not even on the charts and likely was about 12 lbs at one yr. (she’s only 25 lbs now at 3.5).
from pcrm.org:
Interestingly, the breast milk of vegan mothers has been shown to contain significantly lower levels of environmental contaminants, such as pesticides, dioxins, and bovine growth hormone, than the breast milk of meat-eating mothers.
Hi Sarah May, “clean milk” doesn’t mean “healthy milk” or milk that a baby can survive on.
I’d be much more interested in comparing this IF the mothers eating meat were eating only pastured meats. I’d also be interested in actually seeing the nutrient content of their milk vegan vs. omnivores. That is much more telling.
The problem with all of these pro-vegan tactics is that it lumps EVERYONE who is not vegan into one group. There is a VAST difference in health between those who eat SAD and those who eat traditionally. This distinction is never drawn in research as it is assumed that CAFO meat and pastured meat is all the same; it’s not. Show me some research that proves that a traditional diet is actually worse than vegan (not SAD) and then we’ll actually be comparing apples to apples.
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama\’s last post: Recipe Collection- Baked Lemon-Pepper Fish
The labeling and ‘lumping’ goes both ways. Vegans also have different diets and nutritional standards, yet people often refer to our diets as heavy in soy, refined carbs and other processed foods. I am a vegan mother of two toddlers. I still breastfeed, make homemade almond milk with coconut butter and sunflower lecithin, almond kefir and yogurt, nut cheeses, fermented vegetables, sprouted grains and green smoothies with chlorella and spirulina for my kids. We eat what I consider to be a natural well-balanced diet that includes cold pressed oils, fats from nuts, seeds and avocados, fruits and mostly raw vegetables, sprouted tofu on occasion, brown rice, pasta, steamed root vegetables, flax crackers, the list goes on…I even make homemade vegan ice cream.
My point with all this is that a vegan diet is not ‘extreme’ it is just a matter orienting yourself towards natural ‘living’ foods and making delicious creations out of them. I’ve had my blood work looked at by a naturopath and diagnostic testing and I am not deficient in anything. The naturopath said that a vegan diet is working very well for me, even through the stress of two pregnancies and breastfeeding for almost 4 years.
Being vegan is not a sacrifice. If it were, we would look into alternatives. I agree with others that if you are experiencing problems with your diet, you should be flexible and open to change. There are many simple changes, such as adopting backyard hens and adding a few eggs to your diet, that don’t contribute to the animal cruelty/environmental problems that most vegans are trying to avoid. You don’t have to go to McDonalds, that’s for sure!
The facts of this case do not lead to the conclusion that a vegan diet is ‘unhealthy’. They lead to the conclusion that the parents failed to address the unique circumstances and needs of their baby. I think it happens all the time but just manifests itself differently (diabetes, asthma, obesity). These are far more prevalent and lead to far more deaths than vegan malnutrition. It is unfortunate to see people using this case as a platform to attack vegans and question their ability to raise healthy children. I don’t ever feel the need to attack omnivores for their diet choices. Of course I think factory farming doesn’t meet up to any sensible human’s standards, so those have got to go!
Another good reply
very well informed and informative reply.
In reality, I think grass-fed cow milk would be considered plant based, no? Maybe not, I’m just thinking out loud.
Well-baby checks are a rip. They are not going to catch anything like this because allopathic doctors use “percentile” charts given to them by the formula manufacturing companies. Each chart is slightly different. It means nothing to be in a certain percentile. Many generations survived without being “percentiled”. If a parents can’t weigh and measure their own child, we’re all in deep trouble.
I think every young Mom in the entire world should read How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite of Your Doctor – Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, who was an allopathic pediatrician for 30+ years and decided they were doing it all wrong. Actually, it should be required reading before giving birth. The book is old – written in 1984, but the advice still pertains. The nutrition advice he gives is a little outdated, of course, but some of it is still pretty worthwhile. I would look to him for other guidance in raising children, and WAPF for nutritional information. Just my 2 cents.
The other tell-tale sign, which should be more obvious but seems to be lost on vegans and even vegetarians is this: if the Mom is malnourished, so will be the baby. Whether it’s during pregnancy or while breastfeeding, baby will only get what Mom gets. Wasn’t the Mom of this child able to tell that she was low on B vitamins for go-juice??
Most of the breastmilk I see coming through my infant day care facility has NO fat in it at all. It’s just like skim milk. I can’t imagine a baby getting much nutrition from that. Most of the Mom’s of infants I care for aren’t vegan or veggie, but they’re still very afraid of butter and eggs (real foods). They are USDA Food Pyramid indoctrinated, for sure.
I agree with Sarah (or whoever it was) when she said that most people believe that breastmilk just magically gets its goodness because it’s *breastmilk*. How naive is that? If the mom isn’t eating proper foods, the milk doesn’t have anything nutritionally worthwhile either.
I’m vegan and my breast milk was almost 1/2 cream at the top when I had to pump and store. My firstborn was 9 lbs 10 oz at birth and jumped up to 11 lbs at 2 weeks. My pediatrician said it was because of my milk that she gained so fast. So my experience was different than what you have seen.
I followed your link. Does the WAPF have a page just like that but for kids/babies?
What did that baby die from? This is off topic but I want to eat more traditional foods but I also feel the need to eat off the Biblical Clean list. Do you have a opinion about this? Sometimes I wonder if I should follow the list or if it’s outdated. The reason is because I don’t want my family to eat animals that are actually unclean or unhealthy. I think the list was made for a good reason. But I guess native people lead long healthy lives eating unclean animals. I’m torn.
Christin, here’s a couple of links:
This one for babies from WAPF: http://snipurl.com/27px2q
Here’s one for toddlers and older children: http://snipurl.com/27px30
and another: http://snipurl.com/27px3a
**P.S. I hope those work. I had to use snip url because since WAPF recently redesigned their web site they obviously still have a few bugs to work out — because their links are humongous!
If they won’t open, just go to http://www.westonaprice.org and type in Nutrition for a growing baby and then type in Nutrition for older children (or something to that effect) and you’ll get a list of topic titles to choose from.
Hope that helps.
christin – not trying to change your mind, what you decide to eat or not is b/w you & your Lord. AND He told Peter “what God had cleansed no longer consider unholy” (Acts 10). Just something to think/pray on.
God bless.
Christin, I imagine you’ve read The Maker’s Diet by Jordan Rubin? If not, I highly recommend it. Yes, Peter dreamed about eating “unclean” animals, and Christians are no longer under the old Mosaic covenant. But I agree with you that God loved the Israelites and would’ve given them his dietary laws in their best interest. He loves us too… so is avoiding pork and shelfish still in our best interest? I don’t know. But I have heard some good nutritional arguments against both pork and scavenger-type shelfish. For me, it’s not a faith issue, but I do avoid pork and shellfish. There are a million other fantastic things to eat, why bother with pork (except the occasional small amount of bacon, for flavor)?
I wish you the best in your soul-searching! God knows your heart, and he will lead you.
Danielle @ Analytical Mom\’s last post: Butter Spread
That’s so sad….and scary.
There is an unfathomable amount of ignorance in this world. That is just a fact. NO ONE has all knowledge of everything. (except GOD) I do feel sorry for these parents; ignorant and unaware of what they were doing, maybe even blind faith.(Which also requires some understanding of what you are believing IN) I see parents everyday who are giving their kids toxins, drugs, horrible nutrition, etc. There will be a price to be paid. All you can do is try to educate those around you, and remember that you too were in ignorance of something at some point. Have mercy, and find out what is important to you and your family. DON”T RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT, MEDICINE, or some EXPERT. Thanks Sarah for helping educate. God bless!
So, if you don’t exploit an animal by eating it or stealing from it, you’re bad…is this what I’m to glean from this article? Why is using animal products a mandate in this country?
I just don’t understand why people think it’s weird to drink mother’s milk (milk from your own species) but completely OK to drink the breast milk of a COW. Why is this a normal accepted practice?
Oh, and vilifying the couple when they’ve lost their baby is shameful and disgusting. Thanks,
all you “Christians”, for verifying the hypocritical, intolerant stereotype you all are so good at.
Wow. “abstinence from all animal foods is a danger to one’s health and most particularly, your baby!” Uhm, Sarah, not true. A vegan diet can be very healthy but like with every diet, people can get it wrong. The reason we need to get B12 from supplements is simply because our veggies are washed – cyanocobalamin is naturally found in soil and fermented things. The only animal foods with significant levels of B12 are calf’s liver and sardines, which not everyone eats. And vitamin A is abundant in red and yellow fruit and vegetables. All the vegans I know are quite knowledgeable on nutrition and would never dream of feeding a child just breastmilk esp when not taking supplements.
I think very few people actually know anything about nutrition other than what they learned at school and home, which often is very limited and outdated. I didn’t know that B12 was so crucial until a few years ago, and I don’t know many people who have a clue that you need, say, vit D to help calcium bind to your bones, or vit C in order for your body to use iron.
This is a tragic case of parents not being particularly clued up and doctors not doing more when they did have concerns. At any rate punishing parents for being ignorant and suspicious of Western medicine smacks very much of Big Brother, and putting the blame on a vegan diet smacks of bias.
EvylShnukums, I don’t even know where to start with the gross inaccuracies of your comment. There is NO VITAMIN A in plant foods. Only beta carotene, which must be converted into true vitamin A. Most people convert little beta carotene to Vitamin A even if they are in excellent health with perfectly balanced guts. Our wonderful FDA allows beta carotene in supplements etc to be labeled vitamin A when it is not vitamin A. The B12 you are referring to is an inactive form of B12 and actually causes more B12 (from animal foods) to be needed by the body. Plenty of B12 is found in grassbased dairy, eggs, seafood, and beef – readily available sources if one seeks them. How can a diet that requires man made supplementation with B12 be a correct diet? It can’t. This is why veganism never existed in traditional cultures (vegetarianism did, but not veganism).
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Genetically Modified Cows Produce “Human” Milk
Well I’m open to being corrected – please list some sources. But in the interest of credibility, kindly check them on Sourcewatch first.
At any rate, whether veganism is a natural diet is entirely beside the point. Not one of us eats “naturally”. We import food, we cook, freeze and season it, you get the idea. Everyone should supplement, to ensure optimum health. How natural is it to eat a factory-farmed animal or GM grain? And how natural is it to drink another mammal’s milk? Don’t confuse nature with culture.
Veganism is an ethical stance as well as a diet, and when properly managed and supported with supplements, it is perfectly healthy.
In fairness, has any study been conducted on how many babies of omnivores die of malnutrition? If these were omnivore parents who refused orthodox medical treatment for *bronchitis*, would their diet even be mentioned? Would people ask whether the baby had had enough vit C? I don’t think so.
Hi Evylshnukums, here are a couple for you. Supplements can never replace food:
http://tinyurl.com/3sc3e2u (true vitamin B12 only found in animal foods)
http://tinyurl.com/3e59k72 (Vitamin A is NOT in plant foods)
The Carotenoids (found in plants) are converted by the body into vitamin A (I don’t see a problem with this- do you?)
Vitamin B12- although not found directly in plants, is made from bacterial fermentation which can happen to plant based sources, thus producing B12 (I don’t see a problem with this either).
Unless you are a complete raw food-ist yourself (everything raw- including your meat and getting your milk straight from the cow’s udder)- I don’t see why you think it’s problematic for a vegan to get B12 from a source that may have gone through some kind of fermentation or processing. Or why you think it’s a problem to get vitamin A from your own body’s processes…
Being a long time (18 years) vegan- I get plenty of all vitamins and minerals from my diet that does not rely upon pill supplements (although when pregnant, like all woman should- I have erred on the side of caution and taken a vegan pregnangy/lactation multivitamin).
An added advantage of being Australian is an inbuilt love of vegemite- high in B12, so quite easily getting all the B12 one could need.
Conversion of carotenoids into true vitamin A is not very efficient in the body and does not happen at all if there is any gut imbalance whatsoever. Vegans are all supposed to take vitamin B12 because the bacterial fermentation in the gut is an insufficient source to maintain health.
vegans dont have to take b12 supplements as long as they are able to get enough in their diets. most americans dont get enough of many vitamins in their diets, be it vegan or not, because our food sources are so processed. this is why b vitamins are added back into breads and pastas and that is why many americans (vegan or not) take a multivitamin or other supplements (how many meat eaters do you know who are anemic? isnt that a main source of iron??).
lets face it. this baby died from neglect which included nutrient starvation. the article states that the doctors suggested things for the parents to do to help the baby, like give it medical attention when it was sick, and they CHOSE not to. this case is no different from any other cases where parents withhold traditional medicine and their child dies. it has nothing to do with veganism in itself. diets that are very limited in anything will cause malnutrition. i have several meat and dairy eating friends who are severely deficient in b12 and vitamin d, both of which you claim can only come from animal sources. i am vegan and am not deficient in either (or any other vitamins or minerals). i have my levels checked regularly because if there is a deficiency in something it would cause me to adjust my intake accordingly. if this mother was eating a well balanced diet and was aware of possible health complications and common deficiencies during pregnancy (your body depletes you of even more when pregnant and breast feeding) she would have taken the steps to correct and prevent them. even AFTER she was told about the deficiencies and shown the warning signs she CHOSE to ignore them.
what about the uneducated mothers who give their infants honey and then they die from botulism? what about the parents that give their infant peanut butter before they are “supposed to” and the child has an allergic reaction and dies? what about a child who has a food allergy and the parent doesnt take every single necessary step to prevent an allergic reaction and the child dies? these situations are all diet related but we would not think of prosecuting the parent. it has a LOT more to do with the specific situation and how the parent neglected this child in gross ways BEYOND the dietary restrictions. it was the lack of change and action AFTER she was informed by doctors of her deficiencies, it was the lack of medical care when her child contracted infections that ravaged her little body and caused her to lose even more weight and strength. it was about the neglect. and diet was one area (of many it seems) where this child was neglected.
it is ridiculous to take 5 or 6 extreme cases of something (someone linked the 6 cases of other “vegan related deaths of infants all over the world”) and even compare them to the millions of healthy vegans with healthy babies and families. some vegans have unhealthy diets and just as many non-vegans have unhealthy diets as well. you can not TELL me that there has never been an infant death from a meat-eating mother’s vitamin deficiency in her breast milk! if we are going to lump everything together like you, sarah, are doing, lets look at ALL of the cases of child neglect leading to death. a majority of those included mothers who eat meat!! OMG, EATING MEAT CAUSES INFANT DEATHS!!!! same line of thinking i am afraid, except i am willing to recognize the insanity of that statement and dont actually try to pass it off as fact.
and dont bother listing links with your little vitamin quotes in them because there are just as many out there that say otherwise. you are using google to link you to random “studies” and trying to use them as valid arguments when you are completely unwilling to look at all of the data (yes, some conflicting from both sides) and make a rational informed decision based on that. this whole article was written as an attack on vegans and you are just attacking anything anyone says otherwise. so basically it is a one sided argument with yourself. have fun with it.
I think it is sad all around, but charging the parents is just wrong. I was a vegetarian for many years. It isn’t all about defending animals, or ethics, or whatever. I ate that way because I thought it was healthy. My motives were purely selfish. There are tons of cookbooks, magazines, and research that says this way of eating is healthy. Why would parents vegan/vegetarian parents question all that supposed knowledge? I have no doubt these parents were doing everything they believed was best for themselves and their baby. My goodness, we are just a punishment-driven society. How about some compassion instead? Rita
It is tragic. I think the most important lesson here is that our breast milk is only as good as the food we eat. And the toxins we avoid..
Amen, Amy. We humans make mistakes and people die sometimes, including our own children. What a cruel punishment. It’s enough.
I also blame the government: public education and the food pyramid, add the Gods’ recommendations on healthy diets and it is so easy to see how this woman could be soooo ignorant. Oh, did I say “Gods”? I meant doctors.
The truth is that governments kill more people, either intentionally or un, than any other entity. FAR more. They actually kill them or simply allow them to be killed thru faulty laws and regulations. I wouldn’t trust Big Brother to protect my children from me or from anyone else as far as I could throw Him.
I just spent a few days with my oldest (as in “long term”) girlfriend from college. She is a news producer for CBS in a major market and has been since the late 70′s. She didn’t know about raw milk, that fats are good for you, that cholesterol is a myth, never heard of pastured meats, does not know how to read a label…. The list goes on and on. If we lived together for a year, the education would be just beginning (as it is for me at 55.) I’m talking about an intelligent woman who works hard for a living in a news organization. Ironic.
Sally\’s last post: Kentucky’s ONLY Food Freedom Candidate for Governor- Phil Moffett
first–my caps key is sticking so no caps… ;-0
anyway, this is a tough one, but for the issue with the baby not being on solids yet…my second child is now 3 years old. she refused solid food until she was about 2. completely refused it. in that i mean she would not eat it. if i managed to get a bite of food into her mouth she would spit it out. we got really freaked out but the pediatrician told us not to worry, to keep adding formula to her bottle–my breast milk had dried up at this point–and we would assess things based on her weight and overall health. since she was healthy there were no worries. she also was not constipated ever. i have no idea how, but she was fine. now she is 3 and a half. right after her 3rd birthday she started eating meals at the table with us. she still drinks her baba around the clock but also will eat solids. she looks better now–she had circles under her eyes before she started eating solids and has some more meat on her–but she never looked really unhealthy and always had energy and was fine on the growth/weight chart.
so i guess my point is that just because a baby is not eating solids doesn’t mean the parents are doing something wrong or that the baby will die. my concern is that the parents in this situation may not have consulted with their doctor. we did and were given assurance that things were fine. but if our daughter had been underweight and deficient we would have done something–tube feeding or something.
this really just breaks my heart–for the baby and the parents.
I could not just pass by without trying to help you. Do you know that the way to capitalize letters is to use the shift key? Before I took a typing class, I used the caps lock key before and after every capital letter. When you said that your caps key was stuck, it reminded me of this. All you need do is hold down the shift key while you type the letter you want capitalized. Much easier. Caps lock is only for when you want to type in all caps… which should be almost never.
Although there is a chance that it was the strict vegan diet, we need healthy bowels to absorb nutrients. My daughter was in the lowest 5th percentile for a child a year younger than her, why? Turns out that it wasn’t that we weren’t feeding her enough nutrients, it was that she had a food allergy (soy)that damaged her bowel health , so she wasn’t able to absorb much of the nutrients we were feeding her. We improved her bowel health and she began to gain weight again. Please keep in mind these people lost a baby, the tradgedy speaks for itself, it need not be commented on with such viciousness.
Is there a link to the source on this article?
The sources are listed at the end of the post.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Grassfed Goes Gourmet
hmm… the thing that concerns me is as a parent choosing to follow a diet not based on the USDAs food pyramid is: when am I going to be accused of neglect because I feed my children heart stopping cream, butter, and liver?
Also, how many other children fed a standard American diet are tested for nutrient deficiencies in random cases of infant death? A mother whose child has spina bifida, is she charged with neglect? She may not be vegan but her diet certainly has a terribly deleterious effect. I see this not so much a vegan vs omnivore debate but a sign of the terrible ignorance we have in general regarding the proper feeding of ourselves and our children. I think that men of good will can have this debate, though legal action scares me.
Interesting article and discussion. My hearts goes out to the parents who lost their baby, and I believe that no amount of state issued punishment will surmount to the pain they’re already in and will have for life.
I may be overly simplifying things…but I believe that God created this planet with all of the things we need to be healthy. Animals, plants, etc. You don’t hear of major health issues in those that stick to the basics. Man made, processed, chemical added, and over/under eating and laziness are the things that make up the majority of health issues that lead to an early death. Debating “big brother” policies, and blaming the government for all of our problems is not going solve the problems we create for ourselves. Anything that is taken to any extreme is dangerous to our health. I think our society tends to overcomplicate things and usually in an effort to make money. As a parent, my goal is to make informed decisions and to watch out for extreme views and beliefs that are not tried and true…after all humans didn’t just arrive on this planet.
This article is appalling and just plain insulting. Just because ONE mother was uneducated, stupid, or possibly had other health issues that may have led to unknown deficiencies does not mean that nursing mothers cannot follow a vegan diet. That is insane.
So we are being neglectful if we aren’t giving our babies lots of animal proteins and hormones? Because modern science shows us that that’s really healthy, right?! Wow. Seriously?!
When was this article written, 1950? SO ABSURD. People are clueless about what “vegan” means and what a healthy, well-rounded vegan diet consists of, clearly when you read the comments here you can see that. It’s this sort of ignorance that makes me feel sorry for people and I just have to laugh at their abundance of judgement and lack of education on the subject. I feel sorry for these parents who lost their child, and that they are being treated like criminals, when they are clearly misguided and did not do any research on what proper vegan nutrition consists of.
I had an extremely healthy pregnancy, my traditional doctors, and later my midwives, were always very impressed with my bloodwork, I had a complication-free and wonderful home birth, and a baby who more than THRIVED on vegan breastmilk. My midwives would joke about how I should patent my breastmilk and sell it to make vegan superbabies. He became so huge and chunky and healthy on ONLY vegan breastmilk and people were blown away by how bright and happy he was.
My son was a chubby, happy, healthy infant and now as a 26 month old vegan who still breastfeeds is a healthy happy boy who is in the 95th percentile for height and 75th percentile for weight. Articles like this show how any moron can get published on the internet, and people should take what they say with a grain of salt. Completely ridiculous.
And was this seriously a question to anyone- of COURSE the mother’s diet affects the milk which affects the baby. How could anyone possibly not know that?!
Meat-eaters also get B12 deficiency. It’s not a dietary issue. There are babies with meat-eating parents that die. But Sarah said babies of vegan parents should have zero infant mortality for it to be ok. That’s a double standard
B-12 isn’t about diet. Meat eaters also get b12 deficiency. If a woman didn’t have enough b-12, she probably couldn’t carry a baby to term. And it takes years for a b-12 deficiency to develop. The baby was 11 months.(and died of pneumonia)
prosecutors are lawyers and will say anything to manipulate the jury
The importance of meat is a sociological belief. To see what’s natural, you’d have to look outside the “box”.
VEGANS:
Dr. Benjamin Spock, M.D.
Dr. Dean Ornish
Pythagoras
Ben Franklin (on the $100 bill)
Emerson
Einstein
Edison
Dr. Douglas Graham
Dr. Mercola
Neal Barnard, M.D.
Michael Klaper, M.D.
John A. McDougall, M.D
Carl Lewis
Betty White (88 – last remaining Golden Girl)
Jay the Juiceman (89)
Dr. Mercola is NOT a vegan!! I am questioning your entire list at this point given the hilarity of listing Dr. Mercola. A friend of mine knows him personally, and he very much eats meat.
It doesn’t matter if individuals are vegans .. there are no traditional cultures that ever were as they would have died out from inability to reproduce. Fat soluble vitamins from animal foods are required for healthy hormone function. I’m still waiting for a vegan to list one for me.
Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist\’s last post: Grassfed Goes Gourmet
I’m sure there are a few- but one group I can name off the top of my head are some Aryan tribes in the Himalayas who have been living completely vegan for at least 5000 years (and still around and breeding).
Sources please? I’ve never found a single one. Most likely you are referring to a vegetarian population whose spiritual leader is perhaps vegan but he is unmarried and not expected to reproduce. The parents MUST ALWAYS eat animal foods or infertility is the result.
you keep saying this ridiculous idea that vegans cant reproduce and then ask people for SOURCES to say otherwise. how about if YOU list one? just so you know i have linked people to your article so they can laugh at how uneducated you are. and also so they can giggle at you way up there on your high horse THINKING you look smart.
i know that is evil, and it wasnt my intent at first, but i keep thinking that you are JOKING when you make these insane comments. it is seriously good for a belly laugh! thank you for the entertainment!!!
p.s. people laughing has nothing to do with being vegan or not. it is the random “facts” thrown out and how a sad case of neglect and abuse got turned into an argument about veganism in the first place.
this is just my opinion and i could be wrong but i think fungal infections are to blame…am i wrong to think that vegans eat a lot of yeast and sugar? eating yeast, sugar and grains will get you unhealthy.. for more info i highly recommend checking out this info: knowthecause.com
Some vegans might (through unhealthy food choices), but most vegans eat a lot less sugar at least than the standard meat eater (although this may not be true for Americans as they have more “vegan” junk food than other western countries). This is primarily because a lot of junk food (candy, crisps, heavily processed foods etc. ) are not vegan, so we don’t eat it. Other western countries also do not put sugar in bread and other basic staples like Americans do, so speaking from an Australian perspective- vegans don’t have anywhere near as much sugar in their diets. But from working in the US for two ski seasons- I noticed that there is a whole lot more vegan junk food available and most things that I would have considered to have been savouries in Australia or the UK, tasted sugary in America… So, you may be right about SOME American vegans (but I wouldn’t want to lump them all into the one basket as again, a lot of vegans are health concious and would try not to eat the vegan “junk” food or would eat it in moderation.)
I am curious about one thing in this sad story. I was not aware that, during autopsies, a persons vitamin intake is tested. Is this normal?
I’d love to know why all the vegans act like they’re better than people that eat meat? Saying things like the only natural diet, ethical choice etc. More like a fashionable, trendy choice that you get to look down on people for no reason at all. I don’t care what you eat; I don’t know any of you people (obviously), but why do you feel the need to criticize others?
I’m not criticising you. The vegan’s here appear only to be defending their choices against those who are criticising them – I think you have it around the wrong way.
Perhaps I should criticise- as I do think my food choices are more ethical than a non-vegans. Not wanting to harm animals when there is no nutritional need (yes, that’s right) to do so and wanting to be healthy- is not a bad thing – or do you see being peaceful as bad?
And is not “fashionable” or “trendy”- vegans have been around for a long time. We’re just more noticible now with modern technology.
Baby Breastfed By Vegan Mother Dies — The Healthy Home Economist http://t.co/0cq0PIn
Hi Sarah,
Excellent article. I have always wondered about vegans. You would think that if they run a vitamin B 12 deficiency that they would come to the conclusion that their diet is not a good one. I don’t understand them. In any event, this is a tragedy. And I am with you. I would not prosecute the parents but I would educate them so as to avoid this problem in the future.
One thing I want to mention…when I gave birth to my son, he was early and so I had to express my milk and then feed him with a little tube. I would store my milk in the hospital nursery fridge. There were a few other new moms who had to do this too. I was shocked at the variation in the color of the breast milk. One or two of us had very yellow milk, while others had pale yellow milk, and still others white milk. While I was pregnant I craved butter, meat, etc. I did not yet know about WAP and Sally Fallon but I followed my intuition and ate what I craved. (I also have a great mom…86 and in fabulous health…who NEVER ate anything but full-fat food and advised me to do the same.). Interestingly, my milk was very yellow.
Unfortunately, I did not produce a lot of milk. I was 40…and later found out I had a blood disease that even made it difficult to carry a full term pregnancy let alone produce breast milk…so I needed to supplement my son’s milk. (He’s my miracle baby!) I thought about the milk bank thing but ruled against it as I just had a general uncomfortableness with the idea.
At that time I discovered Sally Fallon’s book. It was a lot for me to digest and am only now – years later – fully trying to incorporate ALL of it into our lives. But I did take the section on homemade formula to heart. I want to share with your readers that even if you can’t follow the recipe to the letter, it’s still worth doing. It did provide good nutrition for my son. He grew and developed beautifully. He is tall and slime but with a strong physique and a wide face with great teeth. Almost 13 years old now and never a cavity or ear infection. From the days of his infanthood, I have continued him on cod liver oil and butter oil. He does get sick now and again (as a matter of fact he has a summer cold right now) but overall he has excellent health – better than his peers – and no allergies. So although it can be hard for some of us moms to accept that we may not be able to make enough milk, Sally Fallon has provided us a wonderful alternative.
Love,
Mary
As an educated vegan mother of a thriving 13 month old, I have to say that this author is probably leaving out important details in the child’s death. Firstly, it’s a tragedy and denouncing all people who consume a certain diet is too extreme. The author obviously doesn’t know much about nutrition.
I breastfeed my son on demand still and he eats solids. I had a check up a few weeks ago and my doctor said that my health was perfect; I’m not deficient in anything.
So many of these comments are absolutely ridiculous. There’s nothing wrong with being vegan.
Exactly!
The MAIN problem was the ‘lack of solid food’, which caused malnutrition. I think we ‘sensible mothers’ know when to introduce solid food to our infants, but not later than ELEVEN MONTHS after the baby’s birth.
Putting the blame (mainly) on the VEGAN part is unfair, although I love eating meat myself, and support breastfeeding as much as I can.
Be it SOLELY feeding the eleven-month-old baby with formula milk, or milk of a mother omnivore mother, the baby would still be starving and suffer from malnutrition, obviously, if not dead now……
This is the most ridiculous article I have ever read. I’ve been eating a healthy, balanced vegan diet for years now. I know countless vegan families with healthy, thriving babies and children. The United Nations, Dr. Benjamin Spock, former president Bill Clinton, and countless other prominent people and organizations all hail a plant-based diet as essential to our livelihood as a species. Articles like this come around every now and then with biased, incorrect information and vegan families, and it makes me wonder who is really behind them, because there is conclusive proof (found in books like The China Study) that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that living vegan is the best thing we can do for our health, for the animals, and for our world.
Animal products are laden with saturated fat, cholesterol, and become carcinogenic when
heated. This is really and truly a rare instance where someone wasn’t eating a balanced diet, regardless of it being vegan or not. For more info, visit The Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine, http://www.pcrm.org. -Lindsay Wolf, founder of http://www.kissmeimvegan.com
you need to do some research here. what else was going on in the home? i’m guessing the parents did something to piss off authorities…
read: http://www.naturalnews.com/031883_vegans_criminals.html
Actually as a practicing doctor I can tell you that being a vegan mother and breastfeeding doesn’t actually in and of itself cause malnutrition in infants. In fact there are numerous cases of malnutrition deaths in ‘meat eating’ mothers every year. Call your local child services to find out. It isn’t a particular diet that is to blame, its a lack of vigilance. So ANY diet can cause malnutrition, not just vegan, but a meat eating diet as well. And for the record there are numerous plant based foods that provide a large helping of Vitamin A, Vitamin b12 and it is more then possible to have a healthy diet on just plant matter without supplements. Supplements just make the diet easier to maintain.
It amazes me how so may “practicing doctors” feel that they have any authority whatsoever to opine on nutrition. How much did you study nutrition in medical school, like 15 minutes?
B12 is not available in ANY plant foods. It can only be obtained in animal foods. The B12 that is in plant foods is not the type that is in usable form. “Plant foods said to be sources of B12 actually contain B12 analogs (called cobamides)–substances that block the uptake of true B12 and increase the body’s need for the nutrient.” http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-b12
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist\’s last post: Peanut Butter Swirl Ice Cream (Dairy Free)
So we should take your word against a Doctor. Are you american by any chance.
You should have questioned whether John R is a Doctor.
Thank you- good to hear an educated response.
Here via Cracked. Nice job being a total nutjob! It gave me a good laugh at least.
(In case you’re wondering why you’re getting so much traffic, you were linked!)
If it’s so crazy, why were the parents prosecuted?
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist\’s last post: Peanut Butter Swirl Ice Cream (Dairy Free)
I also think it is very sad that you are laughing about a baby being dead. This is not a funny story but a very serious one that warrants attention to why it happened in the first place. This is what this article is all about. It appears in your quest for humor, you are missing the point completely.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist\’s last post: Peanut Butter Swirl Ice Cream (Dairy Free)
theyre laughing at you people, not the article…im laughing too haha did anyone actually bother to read the REAL article not Mrs. Nutjobs version of it? the Real article says that the parents were total nutjobs too….it doesnt blame the veganism just the idiocracy…..just sayin
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk
the link for any sensible people
On that point we most definitely agree. The parents were definitely whack jobs .. obviously sucked in by the cult of veganism which tragically resulted in the death of their baby because they couldn’t observe the obvious .. their baby wasn’t growing or thriving on the nutritionless breastmilk of the poor mother.
I don’t want to get heated, offensive, or arguementive but you’re generalizing all vegans based on the decisions of people we are all aware are total whacks. The baby was thin and sickly because it was riddled with diseases due to the parents ignoring doctors advice for things they learned in a book. I just don’t think it’s right for you to attack all vegans based on the actions of 2 idiots. Attack the parents all you want, but they are a singular, outstanding case that bears no connection to anybody else.
linked to many places!! all sent here to laugh at the insanity of her answers and things she is quoting as “facts”. has nothing to do with people being vegan or not, as many non vegans are getting just as much fun out of reading this now too.
I’m a 35 year old vegan mother of two, I was raised vegan, my parents are vegan and so are my grandparents. I breastfed both of my children, I have never been deficient in nutrients, in fact my doctor who was initially outraged that I was a vegan is amazed at how healthy I was throughout my entire pregnancies. During my pregnancy the only supplements that I took were prenatal vitamins. My children are both healthy and happy and in the 95th percentile for their age and are rarely ill.
One last chance to have a mini-rant before I log off.
When I’ve been criticised for being a vegan, it has not been because I have been sick, unhealthy or deficient in anything (becasue I haven’t been), it has just been some meat-eater who thinks that by me not eating and living the way they do, that I am somehow having a go at them. What’s more, is the people who tend to have the go at me are fat/obese, lazy and/or unhealthy- it is sometimes hard not to laugh at them, I surely don’t want to be like them. I’ll take my healthy fit self over their cholesterol ridden couch potato selves any day.
I have noticed that the fitter/healthier version of meat-eaters are not so judgmental of vegans, they themselves see the benefits of reducing their consumption of animal products and junk food in general. I still have respect for those meat-eaters (even if I don’t agree with all of their food choices- it is possible to agree to disagree and leave it at that).
>Assinine attacks on veganism (THE most natural diet; nature’s intent) are frustrating.
ThrivingFruititarian,
if you really believe that humans aren’t supposed to be omnivores, well, then you’re too stupid to help.
Sarah, I don’t think you are rude or condescending. I think people are just scared to find out the lifestyle they have been living all these years, may actually harm them. It puts them on the attack! And by the way people, I actually somewhat dislike the way meat, eggs, dairy taste! I’ve only recently in the past year started forcing myself to eat more of it, after reading “Nourishing Traditions.” I’ve suffered with depression, and low energy since I was a small child, and definitely think it was my low fat, little meat, no eggs, little milk diet!! Keep speaking the hard truth! You are my favorite health blogger!!
It would behoove you to get your facts straight before making such gross assumptions.
Your “clear message” is actually not clear at all, it’s just a figment of your unfortunate imagination.
According to an article (one where research was actually conducted): “’The couple did not follow the doctor’s advice to hospitalize the baby who was suffering from bronchitis and was losing weight when they went for the nine-month check-up,” Mr. Daquo said.’” The couple decided to use a natural means to treat their baby. Unfortunately, the story ends very sadly.
There are a variety of diets that can be healthy and appropriate for pregant women and their infants. I am a pregnant vegan (11 years) and plan to raise my child an ovo-lacto vegetarian. Neither my midwife or the pediatrician who will see the baby after birth are concerned about me being vegan because they have taken the time to talk to me about how I ensure that I have the appropriate nutrition daily. I think that it is important for vegans, vegetarians and omnivores who are pregnant and nursing to take precautions to be sure that they are getting enough vitamins. Prior to getting pregnant I had blood tests run to be sure that I was not deficient in any nutrients including vitamin A, K, iron, and B-12. I eat many fortified foods and take a vegan prenatal vitamin approved by my doctor. One of my good friends is struggling with B-12 deficency but she is a meat eater. She was told by her doctor that B-12 deficiency is very common and easily solved by taking a vitamin. She recently began taking a vegan B-12 sublingual and is now doing just fine. All pregnant and nursing moms need to be serious about providing good nutrition to their little ones and should consult their doctors about appropriate nutrition.
Humans- omnivores
you know. i laugh at people that are vegetarians. I eat animals. What do animals do? They fart. What does farting do? Kill the ozone. What do plants do? Plants make the air breathable. So the vegetarians are killing the world. im eating the problem and they are eating the solution.
I am a vegetarian. I was not a vegetarian when I breast fed my 3 children. Each and every one of them started eating solids of some sort by the time they were 5 months old. The parent being a vegan was not the problem. The problem was that 1. She did not take the necessary supplements to accomodate herself and her baby, 2. She must not have been seeing a pediatrician and having the baby monitored for health on a regular basis (post natal check ups I think they’re called) 3. She must not have given her baby the opportunity to try a variety of solids baby foods (cooked or mashed and vitamised of course). Please do not knock vegans or vegetarians for the neglect or ignorance of one set of parents. People are vegan or vegetarian for a variety of reasons – mostly to do with not wanting to take the life of an innocent animal or condone it’s pitiful existence or cruel slaughter. I am sure that they would not have intentionally caused the same to their own child.
sucks for the baby, sucks for the mother
but everyone (personally im an avid meat eater) just eat what you want, and do NOT try to make me eat what you eat just because it’s morally superior, IT IS NOT! if I want a salad ill eat the salad! if i want a huge steak you best believe ill kill the cow myself to get it.
ITS NOT THAT HARD TO MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
My sister lives in France and has had two girls there. With the first child she was a vegen and a practicing buddhists, and a very well educated one. Her doctor, as EVERY doctor in france, told her in the fist couple of months of that first pregnancy that she could not stay on her diet and that she would HAVE to start introducing some meat into her diet. ALL doctors (especially in france) talk to expecting mothers about this. Her doctor was very respectful of her beliefs and also that her body was not used to meat, so talked to her about how to safely introduce this into her diet. Her doctor also talked to her about when it would be a safe time to start her children on a vegan diet later in life. My sister changed her diet because like any sane person, she understands that ideology can’t always give you what you need in life (almost all mothers need to dramatically change their diets and life for the safety of their children). She still eats small amounts of meat, and so do her two daughters. I respect the vegan diet, it’s a choice, so is drinking alcohol. But just as the logic of not drinking when you are pregnant, doesn’t mean that drinking when your not, is a bad thing. Nor does trying to use this case to establish proof that vegan diets are unhealthy simply because it is hard during and after pregnancy. I have never met, or know a vegan that does not know this information just as much as the rest of us know about smoking, drugs, and alcohol. This woman KNEW this information and decided to put her baby at risk, unfortunately she, and her baby, paid the ultimate price. She should be on trial, not the vegan community.
BTW, you should al read this before you try and protect this couple.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk
I live in the United States, and here it IS okay to be vegetarian while pregnant and while breast feeding. There are a whole bunch of people who have done so and their babies are perfectly healthy. Maybe your county isn’t informed enough(:
I hate to bring this to all of your attention, but neither Vegan, Vegetarian nor Meat ( Animal ) based diets are perfect. Both should have some kind of vitamin supplement for things they’re missing. Sadly, you guys are like Macintosh users versus the PC users in a community where one side things they’re better than the other and can never agree to disagree and move on. This is a sad thing that has happened here and you all are putting your personal views and opinions of each other above what has happened instead of discussing what really should have been done to prevent this.
There is NO such a thing is the PERFECT diet! Get that out of your heads now. I have a friend who almost died not long ago, because of his immune system was not properly sustained through his diet. Care to guess what his diet is? Well I wont go and tell you because it would end up with you throwing it back at me not knowing what I’m talking about. Well I’m completely opposite of him in terms of Dietary status. He’s been trying to get me to change but nothing he puts up as an argument for and why levels out to any better than what I’m doing.
Why? Because I do monitor what I eat, I do pay attention to things in my diet. Anyone that doesn’t is a fool. If you think your so called perfect view based on your own diet can’t cause you problems, think again. Any diet can cause severe health issues if not properly maintained, it doesn’t matter what you choose it matters how you maintain it. He failed to maintain a part of his diet and it almost cost him a lot more than he bargained for.
I don’t wish this on anyone, but sitting here on a site pointing fingers, calling foul, trying to say that this group of people is attacking us over this group’s way of life versus mine is a load of bs that you can shovel some place else. Problem I see is everyone has their reasons for and why and their opinions on the matters vary. You can either say ok, I agree with you or take the Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert approach and one of you go thumbs up and the other thumbs down and move the heck on!
Almost as bad as people discussing religion and politics, none of them can ever agree on anything and they’re always right everyone else is always wrong. Sheesh!
I am a strict Lacto-Vegetarian (Vegan+Cow’s Milk+Honey). There is absolutely nothing wrong in being Vegetarian/Vegan. Pregnant women and mothers with infants need a “different” sort of vegetarian diet than just routine office-goer vegetarian diet. In India, there are special vegetarian snacks and some diet methods especially during -1 year to +2 years of child birth and these methods are being traditionally/religiously prescribed for more than 5000 years and malnutrition won’t happen if strictly followed. The cause in this article’s case could have been the “style” of vegan/vegetarianism which hasn’t evolved for that particular climatic conditions and NOT the vegan/vegetarianism itself. Yes, Western school of medicine attribute veg diet to lack of B12, Hemoglobin etc.. but it is not the complete reality, it is just a perspective of the “English Medicine” ( that’s what we Indians call non-Ayurvedic school of medicine as).
I am a strict Lacto-Vegetarian (Vegan+Cow’s Milk+Honey). There is absolutely nothing wrong in being Vegetarian/Vegan. Pregnant women and mothers with infants need a “different” sort of vegetarian diet than just routine office-goer vegetarian diet. In India, there are special vegetarian snacks and some diet methods especially during -1 year to +2 years of child birth and these methods are being traditionally/religiously prescribed for more than 5000 years and malnutrition won’t happen if strictly followed. The cause in this article’s case could have been the “style” of vegan/vegetarianism which hasn’t evolved for that particular climatic conditions and NOT the vegan/vegetarianism itself. Yes, Western school of medicine attribute veg diet to lack of B12, Hemoglobin etc.. but it is not the complete reality, it is just a perspective of the “English Medicine” ( that’s what we Indians call non-Ayurvedic school of medicine as).
The trick to a healthy diet is moderation and exercise. Simple. The vegan mother in the article didn’t balance her diet with the proper vitamins, nutrition, etc. Nothing wrong with being vegan or vegetarian or meat eating, as long as you’re eating right, organic, good quality food and balancing it out. I understand the ethical argument, but organic meat is different from McRibs.
I’m vegan, and I’m not deficient in anything. I’ve been tested. But I pay very close attention to my diet and which vitamins I take. She clearly didn’t, which is inexcusable. Vegans and meat eaters alike need to do this when they are having/breastfeeding a baby. She neglected this necessary step, and it led to her baby’s death, but not because she was vegan. It is because she was irresponsible and couldn’t do it in a healthy way. There are many healthy babies born to vegan mothers, but these mothers make sure they get proper nutrition, as everyone should. It also strikes me as odd that she didn’t notice something was wrong until it was too late. Think about it logically. There are other things at work here besides veganism, such as total disregard for proper nutrition when it is most important.
The reason of the baby’s deficiency of the needed nutrients is NOT ‘vegan’ mother, nor ‘breastfeeding’!!!
The reason of the baby’s death is, in simplest words, ‘starvation’!!!
When a baby reaches SIX MONTHS old, she can no longer SOLELY depend on milk (whether it is formula or real milk from mother); instead, she has to start consuming SOLID food, in a progressive way, of course.
By ELEVEN months, if a baby is only fed with MILK, *starvation* occurs not for no reason.
By saying this, I would like to point out that the focus of this report has been shifted, from the REAL (major) cause of the problem.
Many of the responses I’ve read have been wrong, so I just stopped reading them quite honestly. Most health professionals know that the key to good nutrition is a balanced diet. That means eating vegetables, fruits, grains, dairy, and meats/poultry. Everyone should limit their intake of sugars, oils and fats. It’s about balance, and what works for one person may not work for another. If you choose to not eat a balanced diet, and eliminate animal products, you have to take supplements and consult with a physician. Just because you consume animal products, though, does not mean you are healthy. Many Americans fail to eat leafy veggies, lean meats, etc and require supplements too. So there’s not to say that the vegan diet is any better or worse, but it isn’t a “balanced” diet. And people should stop using words like “natural” and “Standard American diet”. These words aren’t regulated and there really isn’t must truth to them! The fact of the matter is that human beings need to eat certain foods because our bodies just don’t make certain vitamins and minerals. If you choose not to eat those foods, or the wrong amounts of those foods, you’re putting yourself at risk. Live with it and stop pointing fingers! And when it comes to parenting, you really should strive to feed your child a well-rounded diet so that they can get off to a healthy start until they are physically capable and mature enough to make their own lifestyle decisions.
I would like to point out that according to this article there is no indication that, while the baby may have “suffered” from deficiencies in those nutrients, those deficiencies were the cause of death. I’m saying this from a neutral stand point, and I would really like to know what exactly was the cause of death.
It is difficult to remain objective while discussing emotionally charged subjects, however we must do so if we hope to ever learn from our mistakes.
I agree that state intervention and punishment is adding insult to injury in this distressing time of losing a child. The story does serve as a warning of the worst case consequences of malnutrition in infants due to malnutrition of a nursing mother. Cases such as this happen all the time in countries with severe famine, but in a country where food is abundant it raises questions over choice in our diet. We have so much choice of food and yet choose to eat the wrong things in many cases, but most mothers usually completely change when pregnant and nursing to accommodate for the needs of their baby. This is a sad example of not doing that. I am not anti-vegetarian, but I do believe that parents are responsible for a child’s nutrition and should not choose to deprive them due to their own morality.
Vitamin B12 is formed in bacteria – vegans used to have no issue getting this when we ate straight from the ground and didn’t use so many herbicides and pesticides and be so obsessive about cleaning our fruit and veges.
Meat eaters have such good B12 levels because meat is full of bacteria and the animals they eat have good levels because the a feed on pastures which they poo on – meaning bacteria!
The issue is not that there are no non-animal sources of B12, the issue is that our food production and prep these days is too clean and steralized. Vegans know to take suppliments for this reason, and this shouldnt have happened.
Sarah writes, “Breastmilk from vegan mothers is inferior to the breastmilk of omnivore mothers.” I find this statement severely disturbing on numerous levels. The most disturbing being the lack of inclusion of any scientific evidence to support ANY statement made by Sarah, actually by anyone, thus far. I fear people may be relying on you, Sarah, for information and you have grossly misinformed everyone who has read this blog and your comments hereto. By providing nutritional guidance, which you have attempted to do in many of your replies to comments, you have a moral obligation to provide accurate information, as opposed to simply spouting your “beliefs”. But have no fear half-ass blogger. Much to my dismay, I have done the legwork for you. I have provided you with a link to Debra S. Penney’s scientific study, “Nutritional Counseling for Vegetarians During Pregnancy and Lactation”, published in the Journal of Midwifery & Women’s Health Jan-Feb, 2008, vol 53(1), Pages:44. I have provided a link to the study below. If you are unable to access the study, it is an indication you do not have the creditionals to do so, which is also an indication you are lacking of the credentials to provide opinions for, or give advice to, anyone regarding nutrition. http://tinyurl.com/7stpzq5
ALso ex Vegan. ALMOSt DESTORYED ME! SAVE YOUR SELF.DONT BE STUPID. GOD SAID EAT MEAT!!!! EXCERCISE AND DONT EAT PROCESSED FOODS AND YOU WILL BE GREAT. 8 MONTHS STILL RECOVERING FROM 4 MONTHS VEGAN. IT SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most vegans I have encountered act like members of an elitist, freak-cult. When someone eats a salad, you generally don’t see people act grossed-out or get all preachy about the treatment of vegetables or pesticides. However, eat a steak in front of a vegan and you’re in for a show, and a good lecturing!
“they all seem to be flourishing with good health- perhaps we’re just flukes ”
That’s probably because they are taking the suppliments necessary to sustain their _natural_ eating habits. Although I have yet to find the magical Suppliment Bush where I would acquire these additional vitamins and minerals if I were to live off the land, so to speak.
I blame the doctor actually… knowing that the mother was vegan, they should have told her that she needs to supplement to have enough vitamins for her child. It isn’t her fault, she didn’t know that what she was doing was wrong. I was already told that being vegan while breastfeeding can be tricky because you don’t get enough vitamins, but the milk is actually a lot healthier than the milk of a mother who eats animal products. We didn’t originally eat animal products to begin with, we ate fruits and vegetables. I am currently breastfeeding, and my daughter has problems with acid reflex. Her pediatrician said that I should cut diary products from my diet to help with her acid reflex. So yes, it is plausible that vegan mothers have better breast milk. As I said, it isn’t her fault that the doctor wasn’t informed as to what vitamins were needed. She didn’t neglect her child, she was doing what she felt was right. They are going to charge her with neglect, yet CPS doesn’t take children from meth addicts. I was told in the hospital that they have seen many babies go home with mothers who tested positive for every drug in the book… and guess what? They still have their children. In my opinion, it is worse for your child to be alive and be a drug baby than it is for them to die when you were trying your best. The point is, at least this mother CARED enough to even breastfeed. Most would just give the baby formula. So how about you consider that before you say that she was a bad mom.
Ummm….What this article neglects to offer is by whom this mother herself was charged with ‘neglect’ and by what authority and where it is in the world this occured….So Sarah, would this be too much to ask you to provide in your story?
I offer little opinon on other people’s dietery habits as myself I eat just about everything which could be considered edible. Howerver this is maybe one of the hollow and opinionated articles I’ve ever read.
If anyone bothered to read the article to the end, you would see that the baby had been suffering from bronchitis and losing weight for 3 months. They had seen a doctor who referred them to the hospital, the parents refused, refused antibiotics, and instead made home remedies for the baby. The baby probably died due to complications of the bronchitis. If any one else has ever had a sick baby, then you should know that sick babies don’t like to eat….especially sick babies who can’t breathe very well.
The parents vegan diet is, clearly, NOT to blame. The fact that they refused to seek treatment for a very sick little baby is. NEGLEGENT, yes, but not because they are vegan.
I’d say the neglect came from failure to act. The mother MUST have known there was something wrong with her child prior to death.
Both my pregnancies were vegan. My two children were born at 8 pound 9; and 10 pounds respectively. I gained 20 pound with both of them. There is certainly nothing wrong with their brains – l, and they are very healthy.
However l have always made sure they have been monitored under a paediatrician.
It just takes a little thought and research, if you want to do it right – and l expect the health of your children, and of yourself for the sake of your children, would be extraordinarily important to those concerned about their environments, the welfare of animals and their own nutrition.
Just a side note, my gynaecologist has strongly recommended a home birth for my third child. The reason? Maternity wards in hospitals are being very much taken up with – not drug addicted, or alcoholic mothers (as l’d have thought_ – but obese mothers. These mothers are, according to him, giving birth to extremely malnourished, small babies – and the mother is suffering from many ailments herself. Both mother and baby are spending far longer in hospital than their healthier counterparts….My point? An irresponsible, negligent diet, is an irresponsible, negligent diet – regardless whether or not one chooses to eat meat.
I see your point but I don’t feel I am generalizing. The child may very well have died even if not sick. Breastmilk from vegan mothers is inferior to the breastmilk of omnivore mothers. The sickness perhaps hastened the inevitable as these parents weren’t feeding any solid foods and this child was subsisting on nutritionless breast milk that was not allowing growth or development in any way.
BOOM! That has to be the most level-headed comment on this page! congrats! (in all seriousness) You involved every element of the story; idiocracy, a diet that wasn’t correctly supplemented, actual fact, and you acknowlegded another’s view! And I looked back and I was wrong, you haven’t been attacking vegans, that was everyone else, my bad, I apologize.
Breastmilk from vegan mothers is inferior to the breastmilk of omnivore mother => Source?
One good friend that I care very much about happens to be a vegan. I have nothing against vegans personally even though I regularly bash this manner of eating on this blog as it can lead to nothing but ill health in the long run. If someone wants to make themselves ill eating this way that’s fine, but when a child dies because of it, that is really bad which was my motivation for writing this post in the first place.
Sarah, TheHealthyHomeEconomist\’s last post: Peanut Butter Swirl Ice Cream (Dairy Free)
How long is the “long run”- I’m still waiting to get ill from being a vegan. I’m 32 and have been vegan for 18 years and vegatarian before that (I’m actually horribly allergic to dairy- it’s like ingesting poison). I’m fit and healthy. I also know quite a few well-read lifelong vegans who come from a line of vegans- they all seem to be flourishing with good health- perhaps we’re just flukes huh, or living off the stores of the wild boar consumed by our great great great grandparents?
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