Sally Fallon Morell and Sarah Pope on Sustainable Living Show

by Sarah PodcastsComments: 64

Yesterday, the Sustainable Living Show with host Jon Butts interviewed the President of the Weston A. Price Foundation, Sally Fallon Morell, and myself on a wide variety of health and wellness topics.

Included in the one hour conversation is dialogue on the travels of Dr. Weston A. Price, the dangers of high fructose corn syrup, why sustainability means having animals on a farm, why raw milk is the best nutrient dense food for growing children, and how cloudy thinking and morning fogginess is caused by a nutrient poor diet.

The best part of the interview is when Sally debates a couple of die-hard vegetarians who called in live, on the air!

For those of you who weren’t able to listen to the interview live, I’ve included a podcast for you to listen to here or download to your iPod or MP3 player.

What part of the interview did you enjoy most?   What did you think of the back and forth debate with the folks who called in to the show?

Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

Comments (64)


    Hi Sarah,
    I always appreciate all that you do.
    I really would love to listen to your ipod on my mp3. Unable to download from the sight or here. Unless I am misunderstanding, I am unable to download mp3 format for my mp3 player. Typically, I point to the item ( icon) I want to copy (mp3 audio) and right click and save target as…. but I get HTML or when I change files I get nothing or it says can’t download. So unfortunately I would love to have for my chapter these types of recordings. Do I need to sign up for cloud? I don’t own any apple stuff so I am unfamilar. Is it possible to put it in MP3 format for me to copy on your website? Always appreciate all the info and your hard work. Thanks for your time.

    September 26th, 2013 6:50 am Reply
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    August 31st, 2013 9:03 am Reply
  • Sandi

    Love this podcast! We’ve been following a traditional diet for some time. But I appreciate this condensed version of the traditional diet belief system. We grow as many vegetables as we can to sustain us, we raise chickens for their eggs and manure, but the cod liver oil has been my own personal biggest asset. We live in the NW and my vit. D level was tested at 12 (out of 100). After being on FCLO for a year my vit. D level became 55. The doctor didn’t know that I’d switched from his synthetic prescription but said,”Keep doing what you’re doing”.
    Also, thank you so much for bringing the Biblical commands into light. Many Christians shy away from “green” issues. When, I believe, we should be the greatest defenders of the earth and what God gave us.

    January 13th, 2013 7:29 pm Reply
  • ariyele

    what i love is how sally patiently waits for both women to make their comments before responding, but they are super interrupt-y and don’t let her finish before jumping in and trying to talk over her. i thought she did a great job handling them.

    January 12th, 2013 6:58 pm Reply

    Wow. What a great interview. Sally is so well spoken. Non confrontational. Very easy to listen to. I really enjoyed the conversation on bringing back hemp for industrial use, but that the oil should be avoided. Great share Sarah. Thanks.

    January 12th, 2013 6:08 pm Reply
  • Denise

    Elaine, I think that’s what I said. No matter how cold or wet you get, unless you are exposed to the virus at the time, it will not make you sick.

    January 11th, 2013 10:05 pm Reply
  • Sita @ Real Food Suomi

    Thank you for the great radio interview and all the work you do.

    January 11th, 2013 2:03 am Reply
  • Sarah

    I totally agree about Christians only eating humanely raised meats. It should be preached from the pulpits!

    January 10th, 2013 7:36 pm Reply
  • Kelly the Kitchen Kop

    Wow, Sally ROCKED it with those debates, very impressive!!


    January 10th, 2013 12:15 am Reply
  • Maria

    Re the vegetarian who said animals are aware of impending death: We raise meat rabbits. The ones up for harvesting that day are altogether in a cage and everything is done right in front of them. While we are processing one their siblings are chewing on sticks and grooming themselves. Frightened rabbits will cower in the corner, these show no concern whatsoever even though they are within a few feet of the activity. They have no idea they’re next.
    Interesting show, thanks!

    January 9th, 2013 11:36 pm Reply
    • Denise

      There is no question that many animals know and fear impending death. Nature shows demonstrate this as the awful sounds of prey being chased or having been caught are heard.

      Also, I used to to walk by two farms every morning, one on either side of the road. One day I noticed that the horses and other animals on the right were all gathered at the fence looking over at the farm on the right. I glanced over and saw a butcher processing the beef over there. The animals were noticeably agitated, but quiet as they watched. It was eerie.

      I am a WAP eater and have no problem eating animals, as the Bible does forbid it. But they do feel and express fear.

      January 10th, 2013 1:49 am Reply
  • Aneesa

    That was awesome! Thank you so much for sharing!

    January 9th, 2013 8:06 pm Reply
  • Tammy Shaw May via Facebook

    I very much enjoyed listening to this today. You are both so well spoken and know your stuff!

    January 9th, 2013 7:30 pm Reply
  • Lisa

    I appreciated when one of the guys at the station underscored the point that we need animals on the farm & what are we to do with the animals – also that there is a drastic difference betw. CAFO’s and what WAPF promotes. I was a (fish eating) veg for 21 years (for the same reasons as the women who called in) & had the arrogance to think that we humans can figure out the proper combo of foods/supplements that will feed our bodies the same way animal products can. Can we truly trump Mother Nature?? WAPF is what made me reconsider my approach as well as the realization that if I have survived cancer (in ’03) & I have 2 boys to be healthy for, that will not be as a veg, eating lots of processed foods. Anyway – I think an emphasis on what a sustainable, closed loop farm is all about is essential in steering the valid points made by WAPF folk. And if the animal protein deprived persons brain can’t wrap itself around those points, well, so be it ~ not a lot one can do about that. 😉 The book “Born to Run” by Christopher McDougall talks about our evolution into tool making, noting that our brains needed serious protein in order to develop to the point where we could make effective tools. A plant based diet would not have done that. As WAPF believers, we are ethical omnivores & this approach to food consumption & preparation is what is needed more in our world. But I’m not going to twist someones arm into agreeing with me. They have their own barometer for what normal & healthy feel like. What I know is that I, as well as my fiance who was a vegan for 7 years, am still noticing problems with my health most likely as a result of my diet choices for the majority of my adult life. On the right track now though & Antonio has “cured” his crohns on a GAPS diet!

    January 9th, 2013 5:34 pm Reply
  • Beth

    Great show! I thought one of the fascinating points was regarding the concern about mercury in seafood and that two things help protect against this: healthy gut flora and glutathione, and that raw milk is the best source of glutathione.

    January 9th, 2013 6:12 pm Reply

    I’ve been trying to figure out where the mp3 is at. Can anyone tell me how to download a Mp3 so I can hear the show? Exciting info.

    January 9th, 2013 5:57 pm Reply
  • Nicole

    Listening now….I cannot wrap my head around folks who hold animals up to the level of people. Thanks to the WAPF, Sally Fallon Morell, and to you, Sarah, for presenting the world with a different paradigm: responsible, humane, environmentally sound methods of raising animal foods to compliment whatever plant foods we are able to obtain for our families. Keep up the good work!

    January 9th, 2013 3:53 pm Reply
    • PJ

      I tend to think they might actually be lowering themselves to the animals level, sadly.

      January 9th, 2013 6:27 pm Reply
  • ariyele ressler

    kristy, the I-5 cow situation is so awful, it reeks for so many miles before you see it! But, we also have our wonderful happy cows grazing alongside the Pacific up and down Highway 1–and I like to think of them in those moments. Marin Sun Farms is my go-to for all animal products (and i use all of their stuff on my cooking show too) as they are committed to transparency and sustainability in their process.

    January 9th, 2013 2:44 pm Reply
  • Kim

    “When you pay the [animal’s] food bill you don’t mind [killing it]!” I love that! Go Sally! Most of those animals would never even exist without farms, so I don’t know what the animal worshipers are worried about.

    January 9th, 2013 2:06 pm Reply
  • Kaitlyn

    Thanks for sharing, Sarah. I really hope that vegetarian woman actually does read the WAPF articles on the China Study. She seemed to think that we didn’t have anything to back up our stance. Hello! WAPF is all about researching and teaching..

    January 9th, 2013 2:01 pm Reply
  • Kristy

    I thought the comments about the Bible’s command to take care of the earth and the creatures on it was interesting. In California, we take many drives up Interstate 5, and pass by 2 very large cattle lots. Not only is the smell of those cows noticeable for miles before you even reach them, but they look so pitiful; instead of grazing on grass, ‘wagging’ their tails, they lay down bored, in 3 feet of their own manure. As we drive by plugging our noses, I comment to my kids, look at those poor cows; they are not “happy cows from California” like the cheese commercials proclaim. Their meat is not good to eat because of the way they are treated.

    January 9th, 2013 1:57 pm Reply
    • Theresa

      Kristy –

      I know the huge feedlots you are talking about. Here is a trick for your next trip. If your car heater/air conditioning has the option to switch to recirculate the air, do that at the first whiff or the first site of that place. Leave it on recirculate for a few miles after you pass. We usually do that and then as soon as we get back to good, fresh air again, we open both passenger side windows for a minute to replace all the air inside the car.

      For those of you who have not had the dis-pleasure of passing by this place, I can assure you that it would be the last straw if you were still on the fence about spending the extra money for pasture-raised beef. I could not take a chance that my beef came from that wretched place.

      May 25th, 2013 2:26 pm Reply
  • Y.G.

    Interesting that Sally mentioned that butter was also a good alternative to Raw milk. I’ve been having a hard time getting raw milk. It’s not that it’s not available. It is just that every time I contact the dairy farmer here locally I never get a contract mailed or emailed to me. Has anyone else had the same issue getting raw milk or a contract for a share?

    January 9th, 2013 1:42 pm Reply
    • Ann

      I’ve had trouble getting a contract here in Manassas, VA…I’d have gone with two farmers for raw milk, but one insisted I agree to pay an unlimited amount of vet bills if required, and the other, whom I visited and liked, hasn’t returned my two calls so I can go and sign. I’m not getting advice from local WAP members, either.

      January 9th, 2013 2:50 pm Reply
      • Kate

        I used to pick up milk at a drop in Centreville. I found the group originally through the Real Milk site, but they don’t seem to be there any more — perhaps they are more cautious these days. If you are interested, reply here with your email address, and I’ll drop you a note with their contact information.

        January 9th, 2013 9:45 pm Reply
        • Y.G.

          Thank goodness. I thought there was something wrong with my communication skills. It’s a relief to know others have the same issues. I did go through the real milk site and that is where I got the info. I live in Odessa Texas, but thanks for your reply.

          January 10th, 2013 2:44 am Reply
  • Kelly


    I’d love to listen to this but can’t figure out how to actually download it for my Ipod; I am only able to listen to it in streaming format. Could someone please explain this to me?



    January 9th, 2013 1:35 pm Reply
    • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

      Hi Kelly, it’s been downloaded so many times already that SoundCloud is only allowing streaming now … A good problem to have :) Sorry about the inconvenience.

      January 9th, 2013 1:37 pm Reply
  • Susan

    Great job, Sally and Sarah!!! Thanks!

    January 9th, 2013 1:27 pm Reply
  • Stacey

    LOTS of great info…so much was touched on in that small amount of time. Like the one caller said, you all stand out because you are so able to back up everything you say with references. Loved the part about Christians needing to stand up & speak about the evil of the CAFO’s…..we DO!
    Thank you so much for all that you are doing.

    January 9th, 2013 1:12 pm Reply
  • Maureen

    Hi Sarah,
    I heard about this interview yesterday when someone from Tampa with a business in Gettysburg called me, trying to get me to put him in touch with you or Sally. He had called in and was talking about hemp seeds as food product and was dismayed that you did not agree with him on the health and nutrient claims. He felt your information was outdated and inaccurate, but he must not have been listening very closely because he had no idea of our position on traditional foods, soaking/sprouting/fermenting of seeds, or on the deconstruction of food sources (hemp protein which he claims is very healthful, but is extracted from the seed). So you may be hearing from him again, he didn’t seem to grab ahold of what I told him but instead wanted to dicker over other details.
    Listening to the podcast now…

    January 9th, 2013 12:19 pm Reply
  • Stanley Fishman

    That was a fantastic interview, and Sally won the debate, no question. But truth is always more convincing than propaganda.

    January 9th, 2013 12:17 pm Reply
    • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

      I laughed when the vegetarian said during the interview that her doctor said she was “a perfect specimen.” It made me recall my days of rock bottom cholesterol (it was about 120 at the time) and my doctor said I was so healthy and that number was so great I should be very happy.

      I remember thinking “then why do I feel terrible and tired all the time????”

      Doctors wouldn’t know healthy if it hit them in the face. If your doctor tells you you are a “perfect speciman”, I personally would run out the door screaming in terror. That is not a good assessment from a conventional doc.

      Remember the singer Davy Jones from the group the Monkees who was told a mere months before dropping dead of a heart attack that he had the heart and circulatory system of a young man and was in “perfect” health. Yeah right doc.

      January 9th, 2013 12:47 pm Reply
      • Alexis

        Thats so funny! Im a bartender and one of our “regulars” that comes in often is a doctor. He was in last night and had a bag of fried cheese curds. He said “these are soo good, its bad enough they’re cheese but then they’re fried…heart attack waiting to happen”. I went on to tell him how I wouldnt try them because I dont eat pasteurized dairy (made it a point to say that) then told him it was eating at me so I had to ask if he made the comment because of the saturated fat. This question turned into and actual conversation about health and he actually told me…this is a DOCTOR mind you…everything in moderation is fine, yes saturated fat is bad, theres no difference between grass fed beef and grain/corn fed, and when he left he asked for a diet coke to go and then told me I should feed my kids organic turkey jerky. I said “its nice if its organic, but that still isnt good enough for me”. That went in one ear and out the other and I said how we already make our own beef jerky. He said “turkey was leaner and better for the kids”. All I could do was shake my head.

        January 9th, 2013 4:13 pm Reply
        • Y.G. , Nourishing Traditions in Odessa Texas

          I receive the same reaction when I try to tell people about WAPF. Even my family thinks I have the wrong information. The Nourishing Traditions book made sense to me when I read it. Especially how ancient peoples did not have doctors.

          January 10th, 2013 3:55 pm Reply
          • Y.G. , Nourishing Traditions in Odessa Texas

            Sorry, when I said family I meant my brothers and sisters.

            January 10th, 2013 3:56 pm
  • Linda

    This was wonderful ! Thank you ladies for all you do!

    January 9th, 2013 12:14 pm Reply
  • Paul

    Where is the podcast? Where is the link?

    January 9th, 2013 12:11 pm Reply
  • Candace Ireland via Facebook

    I listened to the program while milking goats this morning, and I enjoyed it.
    I was very impressed with how calm SFM remained while speaking with one very emotional caller. It can be so difficult to have a factual discussion in such a circumstance.

    January 9th, 2013 11:45 am Reply
  • Ann

    Ummm…I can’t find the podcast…where is it, please?

    January 9th, 2013 11:41 am Reply
  • David Salter

    Great interview! One thing that confuses people, especially the vegetarians, is that some of this information is at odds to the concensus portrayed in the media. It is hard for people to understand how easy it is to lie with statistics when there is a lot of money as stake. And the corporate owned media lie every day. How many people know that a meta-data study looking at the correllation between heart disease and cholesterol concluded there is no link. You would think this would be front-page news! But no, because that does not support the big businesses. Statins, for example, become laughable when people know the truth.

    January 9th, 2013 5:12 am Reply
    • Kathy

      I hear ya” David….my mother’s doctor recently put her on low dose statins….she does not have a cholesterol “problem”. I said Mom why are you on this drug…her answer “I don’t know the doctor thought I needed it. I trust him” Ughhhh!!!!

      January 10th, 2013 8:45 am Reply
  • Ruthanna Stiner Morrow via Facebook

    Great! I’m interested in checking out the review of the China Study. It seemed a little bogus… Love the work you all do! Thanks for posting!

    January 9th, 2013 2:37 am Reply
  • Kai Pierce Rajala via Facebook

    I hope Sally sent more than a few curious Vegetarians to the resource section of the WAPF website! I can’t wait to meet her at the Vancouver Raw Milk symposium in April!

    January 8th, 2013 10:52 pm Reply
  • ariyele ressler

    where’s the podcast or am i just missing it? want to hear this!

    January 8th, 2013 9:50 pm Reply
  • Susie Kosko via Facebook

    So much great info. I am so indebted to all the great work that WAPF has done, and the treasure trove of practical application info you, Sarah, have made available to people like me. Thank you so much.

    January 8th, 2013 10:49 pm Reply
  • Monica Corrado via Facebook

    Love it! Thanks for posting!!

    January 8th, 2013 10:43 pm Reply
  • Elisabeth

    The player wouldn’t load on this page, but I could find it here, by typing in the date of 1/7/2013.

    January 8th, 2013 10:33 pm Reply
  • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

    I went to the beach over the weekend and sat in the outdoor jacuzzi while a wet fog was rolling in off the gulf (it was really cool to watch even though it was kind of a dumb thing to do). Got a little bit chilled and was coughing during the interview. No worries. It’s gone this evening. Gotta love that cod liver oil :)

    January 8th, 2013 10:04 pm Reply
    • Sarah

      Sorry Sarah, but I love what the cod liver oil does not the cod liver oil : )!

      January 9th, 2013 12:41 am Reply
      • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

        You got that right. If I wasn’t taking my cod liver oil regularly, that chill probably would have ended up being the flu.

        January 9th, 2013 7:55 am Reply
        • Lynda

          I’m new here, and you made me curious what kind of cod liver oil you take. I’ve been curious to find the differences between fermented and regular c.l. Oil.

          January 9th, 2013 12:26 pm Reply
          • Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist

            Only the fermented cod liver oil is worth taking. The other brands are all heated at very high heat with nutrients and the delicate omega 3’s destroyed. See my resources page in the header of this blog and go to supplements section for several vendors that sell it at competitive prices.

            January 9th, 2013 12:44 pm
        • Denise

          Ummm . . . Can’t get a cold from being chilled and you can’t get ‘flu from a cold. If you are not exposed to a cold virus at the time, doesn’t matter how cold and wet you get. And a cold might move into pneumonia, but not ‘flu.

          I know – nitpicky, but it’s true! :)

          January 10th, 2013 8:31 pm Reply
          • elaine

            yes, BUT the cold and damp combo can leave your system sucseptible….accordiing to traditional chinese medicine. therefore if the bug is in your system or you are exposed soon after the chill it will be very easy for the virus to overcome your system.

            January 11th, 2013 11:09 am
    • Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama

      We love FCLO too. My 3-year-old fell and hit his mouth and knocked a tooth a bit loose yesterday. I gave him a big dose of FCLO with extra butter oil and he woke up saying it doesn’t really hurt anymore and it looks much better. (I also offered clove tea for the pain.)

      Plus it knocks out colds and flu easily. My daughter (almost 5) and I were both kind of feeling a bit blah yesterday and this morning. Gave her lots of FCLO last night and now she’s fine. Wasn’t anymore than just a day of needing to rest. That seems to happen every few months…a day of rest and then fine, which probably would turn into quite a bit more if we didn’t take our FCLO.

      January 9th, 2013 2:15 pm Reply
      • Sara

        Hey, what dose do you give her? How much is “lots”? I’m giving my twins FCLO every day – just 1/2 teaspoon.

        January 9th, 2013 3:05 pm Reply
        • barb

          that’s my question too. I give my toddlers nortic naturals cod liver oil for children bc I am unsure what an appropriate dose of the FCLO is to give them.

          January 9th, 2013 6:45 pm Reply
  • Teresa

    That was very good! Enjoyed the little debate with the vegetarian. I really hope she goes on the WAPF site. I find it hard to believe that someone that has been vegetarian for so long without eating some form of animal product like eggs or etc could be that healthy.
    Keep up the good work Sarah!
    PS was that u coughing? Try cayenne, ginger, honey, raw acv,- I have had that same cough! I am doing that tonight no matter how bad it taste! LOL

    January 8th, 2013 9:54 pm Reply
    • Denise

      Vegetarians do include animal products- it is vegans that don’t.

      January 9th, 2013 5:26 pm Reply
  • Maurice Douglas via Facebook

    Go head Sally! :)

    January 8th, 2013 9:44 pm Reply
  • Dawn Forrest Jennings via Facebook

    Go Sally!!!

    January 8th, 2013 9:23 pm Reply
  • Jessica

    Downloading now to put on my MP3 player. Can’t wait to listen to it! Hoping I can get others to listen to it as well.

    January 8th, 2013 6:28 pm Reply

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